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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo was never doomed

asqarkabab on 26 August 2017

Yeah because of its warchest full of money



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TK-Karma on 26 August 2017
Nem said:

Feeling threatned by Sony are we? If your thread is about Nintendo, why did you make it about Sony?



darknut on 26 August 2017

In all aspect of reality, Nintendo's versatility is its own weakness each and every generation is a gamble. Back then, they always had the handheld to fall back on... but Switch changed that. Consecutive falls back to back will easily do them in should it happen again.



GoOnKid on 26 August 2017
Jedidiah-Rose said:
You'd be hard pressed to say Nintendo is ever doomed for all the reasons you stated and more, but they do seem to be going through more and more bad phases with their hardware since the 2000, to deny just how dire the competitiveness of Nintendo through Gen6 and Gen8 was can be an issue, particularly if their means of addressing any long term concerns is by continuously gimmicking their systems out, which doesn't always hit, ala WiiU. With portable platforms on the decrease as well, I wonder how long the Switch will last on it's current success.

There could be a time in the not to distant future where Nintendo become solely publishers of their IP's, not in the sorry way it happened to Sega, I imagine were it to happen for Nintendo it would be on their terms.

I'm sorry but how does Gen 7 fit in all you've said?

And your second paragrah is wishful thinking, nothing more.



vivster on 26 August 2017

Awesome VGC. Now they even put ads directly into threads that you can't even block them with adblock.



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GoOnKid on 26 August 2017
JWeinCom said:

 

Helloplite said:

I thought you are supposed to provide meaningful analysis to back up your claims, no? I agree with you -- Nintendo has never been in real trouble -- but this is a completely needless topic to raise, almost feels like a flame war waiting to happen. Especially when you compared Nintendo to Sony. 

Sony has $16.82 billion (US dollars) in net cash, and over 161 billion USD in total assets. Nintendo does not even have 10% of that, standing currently at 11.87 billion USD of total assets. If this is meant to be a competition about which company has the healthiest assets, you are deluding yourself if you attempt to compare Nintendo to Sony and its numerous subsidiaries in a large variety of industries. 

Likewise, Nintendo's revenues have been steadily decreasing since at least 2013 (635.42 billion in 2013 versus 489.10 billion in 2017), and despite posting a profit finally this year, they are still a very long way from being where they used to be. If Switch proves unable to bring in sales that are comparable to 3DS and Wii U combined, Nintendo will in fact be generating even less revenue than before.

Of course Nintendo is not doomed. It has never been. They are the creators of beloved games, and true masterpieces. In many ways, Nintendo is the pioneer and the archetype of the videogames industry.

But if your point is that Nintendo is not doomed, and that this is somehow a victory over Sony, then this is a really ridiculous stance to take. Comparing stock values is a red herring, and while you are technically correct that Nintendo does not possess any debt, they do have other liabilities amounting to over 1.6 billion USD -- double the amount from 2016.

Trying to present Nintendo's liability as a negative is pretty weird.  1.6 billion $ in liabilities is really low compared to 13 billionish in assets.  Furthermore, their liabilities did not double from 2016.  And, 2016 just happened to be an exceptionally low year in terms of liabilities (down about 50 billion from the year before).  Even if it was an increase from 2016, it's in line with their typical amount of liabilities, and in a year where they're launching a new console, that's not all that concerning.

The bottom line though is that their asset/liabilitiy ratio is about 15% which is incredibly healthy.  If anything, you could argue they're playing it too safe and should be spending more aggressively for more growth.  This ratio is lower than Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, and any other company I thought to look at.

You seem to be changing comparisons from absolute numbers when talking about assets, and then suddenly to YOY when talking about Nintendo's liabilities. In terms of absolute numbers, Sony's liabilities increased by almost a trillion yen, or 9.1 billion dollars as opposed to about 750 million dollars (82 billion yen) for Nintendo.  Nintendo's 82 billion yen liabilitiy increase is offset by a 170 billion yen increase in assets.  Sony's increase in assets and liabilities basically cancel eachother out. 

Speaking of Sony, you completely ignored their liabilities.  So, yes their assets are more than 10x Nintendo's, but that number doesn't mean much in a vacuum.  Their liabilities are considerably higher, at a little over 80% of their current assets.  Which is definitely on the high end.  So while they have 160 billion dollars in assets, you have to factor in the 130 billion in liabilities.  With that said, they have about 30 billion dollars in excess of their liabilities, compared to Nintendo which has around 10 billion.

By the way, a signficant portion of Sony's assets (about 10 billion dollars) are intangible.   they have 5 billion dollars in good will for instance.  In contrast, Nintendo only lists about 100 million in intangible assets, which seems to be vastly lowballing themselves.  The value of their IPs, name recognition, and goodwill has to be more than that, so this brings the real values of the comapnies a bit closer.  

Most of Sony's assets are long term assets (about 120 billion out of that 160 I think) whereas most of Nintendo's assets are short term.  Nintendo is far more able to access cash short term, especially when you consider that Sony's short term liabilities eclipse their short term assets while Nintendo's short term liabilities are a blip on the radar.

Nintendo crushes Sony in terms of both liquidity and solvency.  Over the past decade, I'm almost positive Nintendo has higher profits by a wide margin.  Of the measures typically used to measure a company's health, the only place Sony might win is in operating income.  

Simply put, Nintendo is way healthier than Sony.  It's hard to imagine them even burning through their short term assets in less than 2 decades, even with a string of Wii U level failures.   But a few years as bad as 2011/2012 could really have Sony struggling with their creditors. 

Everyone should read this. I know it's a wall of text and full of difficult terms, but please, just read this carefully. If you understand all of this, this discussion is closed. If you can't understand this wall of text, even after seriously trying, you should not take part in such discussions at all.



Turkish on 26 August 2017
KLAMarine said:
Turkish said:

Actually no, Nintendo isn't worth more than Sony right now, other way around, stock markets aren't a static thing. If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone.

Also your thread doesn't follow your title, you say it was never doomed, yet you only list the things that's been happening since last summer, ignoring the doom years of the Wii U.

PS4 beats Switch launch aligned too. Your entire thread has everything wrong, was this necessary, which Sony fan angered you?

"If Sony spun off Playstation, it would be worth more than Nintendo alone"

 

How do you know this?

Because Playstation is 1. more profitable and generates more sales 2. has bigger brand recognition 3. is a global brand which 3/4th of the world recognizes as the face of gaming 4. one of the most valuable brands http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/global-500-2016

JWeinCom said:
Zoombael said:

Done.

 

https://www.forbes.com/companies/sony/

 

https://www.forbes.com/companies/nintendo/

Not done.

Market cap is based stock price.  Sony's stock price is lower than it was at the end of may.  Nintendo's is higher.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/06/26/nintendos-market-value-climbs-past-sony-corp

As of the end of June, Nintendo's market cap was higher.  That being said though, market cap is not the same as market value.  Market cap only accounts for equity.  Buying Sony for instance would mean assuming their debts, which would influence the price someone would be willing to pay for them.

Sony is worth more than Nintendo now, it's a simple google search really, I dunno why you guys use months old data, stocks aren't a static thing.

Sony market cap: 5,61T yen

Nintendo market cap: 5,33T yen



gentii on 26 August 2017
aikohualda said:
Who said Nintendo is DOOMED????? oh wait.... yeah that is a lot of people

yees A Lot Of People ?!!! 

 

 



Azzanation on 26 August 2017
Azuren said:

I dunno. Things looked pretty bleak for the GameCube and Wii U. And at least the GameCube had the GBA selling alongside it. The Wii U had the DS's younger less successful brother. It's been so bad this Gen that Nintendo had to Mulligan and release the Switch.

While I don't believe Nintendo will ever go under, denial of how bleak it has been in the past will be what undoes the company.

Yet it was only 1 gen ago Nintendo were the best selling in both home console (Wii) and Portable (DS/3DS). 



gentii on 26 August 2017

Thanks to the success of Nintendo Switch and Pokemon Go, Nintendo's market value has climbed considerably, eclipsing Sony's entire electronics and entertainment divisions.