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Forums - Gaming - How come Age of Empires 4 isnt coming to Xbox One if Phill cares about Xbox?

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Nautilus said:
SvennoJ said:

True, yet you can play consoles behind a desk as well with kb+mouse. Nothing stopping them nowadays. We had Kinect required games, we have psvr + move required games, we had steering wheel required games (Project cars with controller sucks) so why no kb+mouse required games...

Because then you basically kill the whole point of bringing it to consoles.Its like if you brought a game to the PS4 but it can only be played with Move controls.There would certainly be people that would fit the parameters, but it would be about 1% of the install base, if not less.You could even say that you miss the whole point of being a console game if you do not have an option to play with the default controller.(cant really say anything about Project Cars, since I never plazed that game nor do I like the racing genre)

Those that want to play AoE on console will take the extra effort. You could play DDR and Rockband with a controller too, AoE could add token controller support as well. Easy mode will be playable, if you want to keep going, recommend connecting a mouse and keyboard. That seems how Project cars came about on consoles. More options are always good, just be honest about them with a recommended input on the box. PSVR games have options to play without motion controls, but recommend move or aim when applicable. That's for 0.0001% of the userbase!

DonFerrari said:
SvennoJ said:

That's the excuse I always get when I complain about the terrible handling with a controller :p I don't know, just felt like the game didn't work with a controller, so I assume it was made for wheels with controller added as an after thought. (considering the configure it yourself options) I haven't touched it since a few weeks after release though.

TO me that seems only like a defense point. It isn't hard or strange to control the game on the controller...it just doesn't seem like a simulator. The slow down before corner, speed on appex, point to start accelerating, the grip, everything seem a little unatural and faster than you would do in a real car.

I bought the DC VR but because my setup I would be too close to the camera I haven't played much... need to. Even more because now I made the wheel work on it... I'll say it feels more real than Project Cars, and it is a arcade with very little though on simulation.

The sim part is seperate from that. The issue I had with that that when I finally had the controller settings in such a way that I could get through the cart career, other cars were completely uncontrollable, too twitchy, or constant fishtailing due to being unresponsive to small adjustments then veering off with just a slightly bigger input. Basically for every invitational in the career I had to adjust all the controller settings again and again to make it possible to control each car at any decent speed.

DC VR doesn't mind the camera a bit closer. You should have no problem unless you like to hang your head out of the window or lay down on the passenger seat :) Closer is actually better to limit the drift. (and not turning all the lights off seems to help) DC is a dream to control compared to project cars, plus drifting is so much easier in VR. I don't use a wheel as it doesn't feel comfortable to me. My own car gives me back and neckpain as well after a long drive, and I can play DC VR for hours.



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Pemalite said
nanarchy said:
thrilled with this move, 99% of AOE fans wouldn't use it on a console anyway. Far more important to do a PC version and get it right, then if desired or justified they could try a console version.


I see it as a missed opportunity.

Age of Empires is an amazing franchise... And I would love to see it exposed to as many gamers across as many platforms as possible.

But I do agree with your premise, give the PC version undivided attention first and foremost. Then scale it to consoles if possible.

That is the best point yet. Input compatibility issues aside, not being hampered by having to run on the original XBox One will give the devs more freedom to make it the best AoE yet. At least that stops the complaints that any unit limits are artificially low because of consoles.



because it is useless on a console



DonFerrari said:
SvennoJ said:

That's the excuse I always get when I complain about the terrible handling with a controller :p I don't know, just felt like the game didn't work with a controller, so I assume it was made for wheels with controller added as an after thought. (considering the configure it yourself options) I haven't touched it since a few weeks after release though.

TO me that seems only like a defense point. It isn't hard or strange to control the game on the controller...it just doesn't seem like a simulator. The slow down before corner, speed on appex, point to start accelerating, the grip, everything seem a little unatural and faster than you would do in a real car.

I bought the DC VR but because my setup I would be too close to the camera I haven't played much... need to. Even more because now I made the wheel work on it... I'll say it feels more real than Project Cars, and it is a arcade with very little though on simulation.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

A mouse... and keyboard shortcuts. And Macros when you can

Shadowrun game of 2008 tried crossplay between PC and Consoles in an FPS. Of course, Keyboard + Mouse trounced through the Gamepad players due to faster control and more precision, and of course same would also happen here in this game.

However, I think the reason why it doesn't release on Console is a certain technical issue: RTS, and AoE Series in particular, are pretty CPU intensive. Elaborate CPU Enemy AI, Unit AI, Pathfinding... all these things cost a lot of calculating power the old and sluggish Jaguar CPU will have a very hard time to provide. I doubt it can be made for consoles without literally dumbing it down, ie much lighter and thus weaker AIs to save on CPU processing power.

Considering many PCs would be weaker than X1 I don't think it would be impossible to port the game to it.

Don't confuse CPU Power and GPU Power. On the GPU side the XOX is definitly stronger than many, if not most Gaming PCs out there. The CPU however is a design specifically meant for Netbooks and, by extension, Ultrathins (as Intel owns Ultrabook trademark, AMD has to name them Ultrathin) and even Tablets. These where never meant to be powerful, just energy efficient. Any modern Pentium dualcore can run circles around the 8 core Jaguar because of the latter's abysmally low IPC.

If you meant the original X1, then basically every gaming PC built after 2011 is basically guaranteed to be stronger than the X1 unless they where gunning for a gameable HTPC (in that case anything after 2013), even if they never upgraded their rigs.

The majority of PCs is weaker, but that's because those are either Office PCs (which don't need much graphics apart from the bare minimum for Powerpoint) or non-gaming notebooks (which are not meant to game upon more than just browsergames)



Nautilus said:
DonFerrari said:

So needing a controller defeat the purpose of a game on PC?

Not unless the replacement(Keyboard and mouse) is good enough on its own.Plus in the console, you would have a problem of where to put your keyboard and mouse to play.Home console are tipically played on the couch, and you dont have either a good table in front of you or a good way to sit and use such configuration to enjoy a game with keyboard and mouse.Mind you, its not a problem that would impede a person to use such a playing method, but it is an additional hindrance.

and you havent proposed either a better idea or a compelling argument against my own, rather just proposing a different question that barely relates to the point at hand.I assume that you agree with me?

dinning table for couch is a reality for so many years. And having a real table and chair nearby isn't totally out of question as well.

Making Mouse+KB compatibility or allowing controller isn't an argument or better idea than not porting? So I really have no idea what you would want. Ow I know, you just want to win the argument.

SvennoJ said:
Nautilus said:

Because then you basically kill the whole point of bringing it to consoles.Its like if you brought a game to the PS4 but it can only be played with Move controls.There would certainly be people that would fit the parameters, but it would be about 1% of the install base, if not less.You could even say that you miss the whole point of being a console game if you do not have an option to play with the default controller.(cant really say anything about Project Cars, since I never plazed that game nor do I like the racing genre)

Those that want to play AoE on console will take the extra effort. You could play DDR and Rockband with a controller too, AoE could add token controller support as well. Easy mode will be playable, if you want to keep going, recommend connecting a mouse and keyboard. That seems how Project cars came about on consoles. More options are always good, just be honest about them with a recommended input on the box. PSVR games have options to play without motion controls, but recommend move or aim when applicable. That's for 0.0001% of the userbase!

DonFerrari said:

TO me that seems only like a defense point. It isn't hard or strange to control the game on the controller...it just doesn't seem like a simulator. The slow down before corner, speed on appex, point to start accelerating, the grip, everything seem a little unatural and faster than you would do in a real car.

I bought the DC VR but because my setup I would be too close to the camera I haven't played much... need to. Even more because now I made the wheel work on it... I'll say it feels more real than Project Cars, and it is a arcade with very little though on simulation.

The sim part is seperate from that. The issue I had with that that when I finally had the controller settings in such a way that I could get through the cart career, other cars were completely uncontrollable, too twitchy, or constant fishtailing due to being unresponsive to small adjustments then veering off with just a slightly bigger input. Basically for every invitational in the career I had to adjust all the controller settings again and again to make it possible to control each car at any decent speed.

DC VR doesn't mind the camera a bit closer. You should have no problem unless you like to hang your head out of the window or lay down on the passenger seat :) Closer is actually better to limit the drift. (and not turning all the lights off seems to help) DC is a dream to control compared to project cars, plus drifting is so much easier in VR. I don't use a wheel as it doesn't feel comfortable to me. My own car gives me back and neckpain as well after a long drive, and I can play DC VR for hours.

I see, I don't remember what mode or configuration I was using, but I had no issues moving from one type of car to another and doing carrer and events at alternative intervals.

The problem of the camera was that I had the whell on the table, the camera on the table as well, and sitting at driving distance, so the camera didn't properly recognize the VR.

Bofferbrauer2 said:
DonFerrari said:

TO me that seems only like a defense point. It isn't hard or strange to control the game on the controller...it just doesn't seem like a simulator. The slow down before corner, speed on appex, point to start accelerating, the grip, everything seem a little unatural and faster than you would do in a real car.

I bought the DC VR but because my setup I would be too close to the camera I haven't played much... need to. Even more because now I made the wheel work on it... I'll say it feels more real than Project Cars, and it is a arcade with very little though on simulation.

Considering many PCs would be weaker than X1 I don't think it would be impossible to port the game to it.

Don't confuse CPU Power and GPU Power. On the GPU side the XOX is definitly stronger than many, if not most Gaming PCs out there. The CPU however is a design specifically meant for Netbooks and, by extension, Ultrathins (as Intel owns Ultrabook trademark, AMD has to name them Ultrathin) and even Tablets. These where never meant to be powerful, just energy efficient. Any modern Pentium dualcore can run circles around the 8 core Jaguar because of the latter's abysmally low IPC.

If you meant the original X1, then basically every gaming PC built after 2011 is basically guaranteed to be stronger than the X1 unless they where gunning for a gameable HTPC (in that case anything after 2013), even if they never upgraded their rigs.

The majority of PCs is weaker, but that's because those are either Office PCs (which don't need much graphics apart from the bare minimum for Powerpoint) or non-gaming notebooks (which are not meant to game upon more than just browsergames)

I wasn't confunding. I know it.

Jaguar is no powerhouse, but most PCs aren't gaming PCs as well, and at least from my memory at playing AoE at the time, it didn't really needed much computational resources. So I don't really see as impossible to make a decent port of AoE to X1 even if they had to use cloud for AI.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Nautilus said:

Not unless the replacement(Keyboard and mouse) is good enough on its own.Plus in the console, you would have a problem of where to put your keyboard and mouse to play.Home console are tipically played on the couch, and you dont have either a good table in front of you or a good way to sit and use such configuration to enjoy a game with keyboard and mouse.Mind you, its not a problem that would impede a person to use such a playing method, but it is an additional hindrance.

and you havent proposed either a better idea or a compelling argument against my own, rather just proposing a different question that barely relates to the point at hand.I assume that you agree with me?

dinning table for couch is a reality for so many years. And having a real table and chair nearby isn't totally out of question as well.

Making Mouse+KB compatibility or allowing controller isn't an argument or better idea than not porting? So I really have no idea what you would want. Ow I know, you just want to win the argument.

SvennoJ said:

Those that want to play AoE on console will take the extra effort. You could play DDR and Rockband with a controller too, AoE could add token controller support as well. Easy mode will be playable, if you want to keep going, recommend connecting a mouse and keyboard. That seems how Project cars came about on consoles. More options are always good, just be honest about them with a recommended input on the box. PSVR games have options to play without motion controls, but recommend move or aim when applicable. That's for 0.0001% of the userbase!

The sim part is seperate from that. The issue I had with that that when I finally had the controller settings in such a way that I could get through the cart career, other cars were completely uncontrollable, too twitchy, or constant fishtailing due to being unresponsive to small adjustments then veering off with just a slightly bigger input. Basically for every invitational in the career I had to adjust all the controller settings again and again to make it possible to control each car at any decent speed.

DC VR doesn't mind the camera a bit closer. You should have no problem unless you like to hang your head out of the window or lay down on the passenger seat :) Closer is actually better to limit the drift. (and not turning all the lights off seems to help) DC is a dream to control compared to project cars, plus drifting is so much easier in VR. I don't use a wheel as it doesn't feel comfortable to me. My own car gives me back and neckpain as well after a long drive, and I can play DC VR for hours.

I see, I don't remember what mode or configuration I was using, but I had no issues moving from one type of car to another and doing carrer and events at alternative intervals.

The problem of the camera was that I had the whell on the table, the camera on the table as well, and sitting at driving distance, so the camera didn't properly recognize the VR.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Don't confuse CPU Power and GPU Power. On the GPU side the XOX is definitly stronger than many, if not most Gaming PCs out there. The CPU however is a design specifically meant for Netbooks and, by extension, Ultrathins (as Intel owns Ultrabook trademark, AMD has to name them Ultrathin) and even Tablets. These where never meant to be powerful, just energy efficient. Any modern Pentium dualcore can run circles around the 8 core Jaguar because of the latter's abysmally low IPC.

If you meant the original X1, then basically every gaming PC built after 2011 is basically guaranteed to be stronger than the X1 unless they where gunning for a gameable HTPC (in that case anything after 2013), even if they never upgraded their rigs.

The majority of PCs is weaker, but that's because those are either Office PCs (which don't need much graphics apart from the bare minimum for Powerpoint) or non-gaming notebooks (which are not meant to game upon more than just browsergames)

I wasn't confunding. I know it.

Jaguar is no powerhouse, but most PCs aren't gaming PCs as well, and at least from my memory at playing AoE at the time, it didn't really needed much computational resources. So I don't really see as impossible to make a decent port of AoE to X1 even if they had to use cloud for AI.

The AI of the first game is very bad, it gets progressively more complicated with each new version. AoE 3 was a big reason at it's release to upgrade both CPU and GPU

And the AI calculations are not the only things going on when playing a game, the engine has to do hundreds of calculations in the background every second. I mentioned AI because it's, beside physics and pathfinding, one of the things that ramp up the number of calculations by a signifcant degree - and they are all coming into play at the same time in RTS games. There's a reason why pathfinding had a slider back in the days and physics up to this day.

If you want a more modern RTS game for comparision, just look up framerates in Starcraft II. The CPU is the limiting factor here, not the GPU as it is the case in vitually any other game and genre.



Ruler said:
Zoombael said:

Good for the sake of videogames.

And it has been proven, exclusive games do sell well. Good games sell well. Not every game has to be on every platform. It is unhealthy and there is no need to. I could give you a lenghty explanation why, but it would be in vain.

So why are Xbox exclusives on PC?

Ask Spencer and the Xbox crew. Ask them why they feel the need to do so.



Hunting Season is done...

Bofferbrauer2 said:
DonFerrari said:

dinning table for couch is a reality for so many years. And having a real table and chair nearby isn't totally out of question as well.

Making Mouse+KB compatibility or allowing controller isn't an argument or better idea than not porting? So I really have no idea what you would want. Ow I know, you just want to win the argument.

I see, I don't remember what mode or configuration I was using, but I had no issues moving from one type of car to another and doing carrer and events at alternative intervals.

The problem of the camera was that I had the whell on the table, the camera on the table as well, and sitting at driving distance, so the camera didn't properly recognize the VR.

I wasn't confunding. I know it.

Jaguar is no powerhouse, but most PCs aren't gaming PCs as well, and at least from my memory at playing AoE at the time, it didn't really needed much computational resources. So I don't really see as impossible to make a decent port of AoE to X1 even if they had to use cloud for AI.

The AI of the first game is very bad, it gets progressively more complicated with each new version. AoE 3 was a big reason at it's release to upgrade both CPU and GPU

And the AI calculations are not the only things going on when playing a game, the engine has to do hundreds of calculations in the background every second. I mentioned AI because it's, beside physics and pathfinding, one of the things that ramp up the number of calculations by a signifcant degree - and they are all coming into play at the same time in RTS games. There's a reason why pathfinding had a slider back in the days and physics up to this day.

If you want a more modern RTS game for comparision, just look up framerates in Starcraft II. The CPU is the limiting factor here, not the GPU as it is the case in vitually any other game and genre.

Understood. I really left RTS a long time ago, perhaps 15 years.

Considering graphics aren't demanding they could offload a good portion to GPU. But yes, if several sacrifices need to be made to run the game, then it isn't a good idea, we just can't really tell at the moment.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Zkuq said:
Now how well do you think Age of Empires might do compared to that? It'd be strange, to say the least, if it sold more, or even close to that amount. Thus, no wonder if it's not coming to Xbox One. It might be pretty easy to recoup the development costs, but why bother if it's just not worth the effort? 

I'm not having a go at you here, but I think this statament is how Microsoft see it and this is why Microsoft are losing so much at this point.

Sony (and increasingly Nintendo these days) are all for building the libary of games for the machine.  They seem to be willing to have a game on the system so long as it will at least break even.

This way adds niche games to the overal libary, and having lots of these niche games helps to create the image that there are games avaiable for all types of gamers.  Having the odd niche game is not good enough, as they are small, their impact is only really felt when they are avaiable in greater numbers.

Microsofts approach to sticking to larger, higher profit titles; limits the amount of different games on the machine, and in turn drives customers to rival machines who offer a spectrum of titles from AAA to indie budget games.

If one machine offers all the Multiplat AAA games (and a few exclusives) and another offers all the same AAA games plus many smaller word of mouth games; then the choice is a no brainer.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

only777 said:
Zkuq said:
Now how well do you think Age of Empires might do compared to that? It'd be strange, to say the least, if it sold more, or even close to that amount. Thus, no wonder if it's not coming to Xbox One. It might be pretty easy to recoup the development costs, but why bother if it's just not worth the effort? 

I'm not having a go at you here, but I think this statament is how Microsoft see it and this is why Microsoft are losing so much at this point.

Sony (and increasingly Nintendo these days) are all for building the libary of games for the machine.  They seem to be willing to have a game on the system so long as it will at least break even.

This way adds niche games to the overal libary, and having lots of these niche games helps to create the image that there are games avaiable for all types of gamers.

Microsofts approach to sticking to larger, higher profit titles; limits the amount of different games on the machine, and in turn drives customers to rival machines who offer a spectrum of titles from AAA to indie budget games.

If one machine offers all the Multiplat AAA games (and a few exclusives) and another offers all the same AAA games plus many smaller word of mouth games; then the choice is a no brainer.

Considering Shu saying that basically only 4 in 10 games they release break even (and 2 pay for all the rest), I would say Sony releases even games that "could break even" or "not totally flop" if it brings good PR to the company. Sure it will be small scale and all, but they take even more risk than Nintendo.

Unless we think Nintendo didn't though they would hit good sales on Splatton and made it a risk as Book of spells



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."