By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Trump Announces Ban on Transgender People in US Military

 

You support this?

No. 206 29.68%
 
Yes. 311 44.81%
 
^ What the hell is wrong ... 177 25.50%
 
Total:694
Ruler on 28 July 2017

The US left is mad that trans people cant serf imperialism



Why i left PC gaming

 

(2015) Question for PS4 owners: if the situation would be reverse? would you still play on PS4?

(2015) The "I don't care PS4 is the most powerful console" thread

Around the Network
Pemalite on 28 July 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
Pemalite said:


One is straight, only liking females... The other is Pansexual who likes almost everything.

Pansexual? Does that mean they are in to beastiality and stuff as well?

No.
It is the sexual attraction to people regardless of sex or gender identity.

It is an expansion over Bisexuality that typically includes things like Transexuals.

You also have Demisexual, Polysexual, Bisexual, Homosexual, Omnisexual, Asexual, Heterosexual, Graysexual and so on.
Sexuality isn't just black and white, straight or gay. And neither is gender... People can be born as both genders or neither, albeit extremely rare.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Aeolus451 on 28 July 2017
Pemalite said:
Aeolus451 said:

I didn't say all, Sherlock. Statistically, they have higher rates of suicides and mental issues. #notall

There is a reason for that. When you have society constantly ridiculing your very existence... Bullying you... Well. It can make living less than pleasant.
Same goes for the LGBQI community as well... Because of the constant hate and ridicule they receive, they have a higher rate of suicide and mental illness.

How do you solve this? You don't exclude them for starters, that will only exacerbate the issue. In other words, people like you are the cause of it.

And let's be honest, unless you are part of the LGBTQI community, you shouldn't ever be under any assumptions of what it's like to be LGBTQI, think you know what is best for them and what rights they should have, because unless you live it... You don't really have a good grasp of any of it and thus shouldn't get a say IMHO.

That has more to do with how their family, friends and people around in their daily lives treat them, normal life stuff and their individual brain chemistry for their depression/other issues.

To that bolded part, fuck that noise. I get to have a say because I'm a free thinking individual. I don't have to be a part of some club to have a say. What kind of backwards logic is that? That's really just a lame excuse for not having to defend your opinions and ideas from criticism. Do you not realize if you applied that same sort of crap universally, how silly shit would become? A white person saying you can't have a say on white issues unless your white. Besides, that line of thinking is extremely divise. Progressives....  Every person has a say regardless of their sex/gender, orientation, race, nationality, etc. 

Pemalite said:

 

Aeolus451 said:

Gender dysphoria is a mental disorder. People with that disorder have a lot of mental issues that accompany it like how other disorders do.

That's a little bit of a generalization and not accurate.

You said it yourself about depression and suicides. Let's be real. The vast majority of people with gender dysphoria have a variety degrees of depression and similar issues, would you agree with that? It's similar with the ones who transitioned but it's not as bad right?



PieToast on 28 July 2017

I don't know if transgender people aren't as capable as other soldiers but I won't comment on that because Trump probably doesn't care about that either. He said it himself. He wants to lower medical expenses for the military and please his generals and military experts whoever they are.

My other theory is that because the US has military bases in many countries around the world, some of which are transphobic like the Middle East, he didn't want those countries upset by enlisting transgender people there. Maybe that's not the case because I've never heard of that ever happening and the Orange President does only care about the bottom line.



.- -... -.-. -..

Torillian on 28 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Pemalite said:

There is a reason for that. When you have society constantly ridiculing your very existence... Bullying you... Well. It can make living less than pleasant.
Same goes for the LGBQI community as well... Because of the constant hate and ridicule they receive, they have a higher rate of suicide and mental illness.

How do you solve this? You don't exclude them for starters, that will only exacerbate the issue. In other words, people like you are the cause of it.

And let's be honest, unless you are part of the LGBTQI community, you shouldn't ever be under any assumptions of what it's like to be LGBTQI, think you know what is best for them and what rights they should have, because unless you live it... You don't really have a good grasp of any of it and thus shouldn't get a say IMHO.

That has more to do with how their family, friends and people around in their daily lives treat them, normal life stuff and their individual brain chemistry for their depression/other issues.

To that bolded part, fuck that noise. I get to have a say because I'm a free thinking individual. I don't have to be a part of some club to have a say. What kind of backwards logic is that? That's really just a lame excuse for not having to defend your opinions and ideas from criticism. Do you not realize if you applied that same sort of crap universally, how silly shit would become? A white person saying you can't have a say on white issues unless your white. Besides, that line of thinking is extremely divise. Progressives....  Every person has a say regardless of their sex/gender, orientation, race, nationality, etc. 

Pemalite said:

 

That's a little bit of a generalization and not accurate.

You said it yourself about depression and suicides. Let's be real. The vast majority of people with gender dysphoria have a variety degrees of depression and similar issues, would you agree with that? It's similar with the ones who transitioned but it's not as bad right?

You keep not putting any studies for anything you say, but let's say your correct and 95% of Trans people would be deemed unfit to serve the military in the standard screening. Why should we not allow in the 5% that could pass the screening?



...

Around the Network
PieToast on 28 July 2017
SpokenTruth said:
PieToast said:

I don't know if transgender people aren't as capable as other soldiers but I won't comment on that because Trump probably doesn't care about that either. He said it himself. He wants to lower medical expenses for the military and please his generals and military experts whoever they are.

My other theory is that because the US has military bases in many countries around the world, some of which are transphobic like the Middle East, he didn't want those countries upset by enlisting transgender people there. Maybe that's not the case because I've never heard of that ever happening and the Orange President does only care about the bottom line.

But his generals have all come out, as it were, against this.    As as for costs, we spend $85 million on erectile dysfunction medication in the military versus a little more $8 million on transgender specific care.

Don't get me wrong. His reasoning did sound a lot like BS to me. He can't outright say that transgender soldiers are inferior or that they dont want to send those soldiers to transphobic countries in military bases and conflict areas for political reasons or otherwise. There's is definitely a different motive other than just money and Trump put out this statements after speaking with his PR team.



.- -... -.-. -..

dharh on 28 July 2017
mizzou_guy said:
TruckOSaurus said:
A good title for a book about Trump's administration would "CTRL-Z".

Seriously, I don't even know what their goals are, other than to avoid blame and undo the previous administration's accomplishments.  What are their goals???

Undo the 21st and most of the 20th century.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
PieToast on 28 July 2017
SpokenTruth said:
PieToast said:

Don't get me wrong. His reasoning did sound a lot like BS to me. He can't outright say that transgender soldiers are inferior or that they dont want to send those soldiers to transphobic countries in military bases and conflict areas for political reasons or otherwise. There's is definitely a different motive other than just money and Trump put out this statements after speaking with his PR team.

I gave the most likely motive already.

"Trump doesn't want transgenders in the military because he equates all transgender soldiers to Bradley Manning. Manning, a former transgender soldier now known as Chelsea Manning, was responsible for the massive Wikileaks cables.

This is how Trump thinks. He collectivizes entire groups based on the illicit actions of a few and then does all he can to disparage them. To him, the only infallible group are rich, white billionaires in the US."

That does sound a lot like Trump. 



.- -... -.-. -..

Aeolus451 on 28 July 2017
Torillian said:
Aeolus451 said:

That has more to do with how their family, friends and people around in their daily lives treat them, normal life stuff and their individual brain chemistry for their depression/other issues.

To that bolded part, fuck that noise. I get to have a say because I'm a free thinking individual. I don't have to be a part of some club to have a say. What kind of backwards logic is that? That's really just a lame excuse for not having to defend your opinions and ideas from criticism. Do you not realize if you applied that same sort of crap universally, how silly shit would become? A white person saying you can't have a say on white issues unless your white. Besides, that line of thinking is extremely divise. Progressives....  Every person has a say regardless of their sex/gender, orientation, race, nationality, etc. 

You said it yourself about depression and suicides. Let's be real. The vast majority of people with gender dysphoria have a variety degrees of depression and similar issues, would you agree with that? It's similar with the ones who transitioned but it's not as bad right?

You keep not putting any studies for anything you say, but let's say your correct and 95% of Trans people would be deemed unfit to serve the military in the standard screening. Why should we not allow in the 5% that could pass the screening?

With that hypothetical situation, it would just be easier to just ban them them all if the rate was that high. It's just more pragmatic that way. I don't think your example is right nor is the rate near that high, though. I'm sure that I said in a different post that I'm personally fine with people with gender dysphoria in the military and if they are one of the ones that want to transition, they should do it after they are out of the military with their benefits intact.

You're more than welcome to counter anything I say with studies or reliable sources or with just your opinion. I keep getting a lot of replies so I'm just trying to reply quickly with my opinion and move onto the next one. So I'm not gonna dig up a study for everything I say. I'm not trying to change your minds or make ya agree with me. i'm just trying to give ya guys an understanding of my position on this and go about my day. Some of the stuff I'm saying like trans/people with gender dysphoria having really high suicide rates and higher chances of mental issues is backed by statstics/studies. The other stuff is more or less just my opinion. You don't like my opinion? Oh well. Again, you're welcome to counter me. 



Aeolus451 on 28 July 2017
Hiku said:
Aeolus451 said:

 Do you not know the definition of statement? It's definitely not " meant to be taken factually". Here it is for ya to remind you. "A definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing". A statement is still an opinion. Also, you're singling out sentences that were meant to be read with other sentences. It changes their meaning without the rest of it. 

My point about my stated opinions still being opinions still stands.

A statement can be an opinion. But it can also be purely factual, void of any opinion. You didn't write it as if it was something you believed. I happened to ask you about it, but someone else may just read it and take it for face value.

What other sentences in the post changed the meaning of "They were allowed in because they were trans, not because they were qualified per se."?

 

I guess I should have worded it differently but it was an opinion and to me I stated it in that way but I can see how others might see it as I meant it in a factual sense. 

"A regular person who has their level of mental health issues wouldn't be allowed in. Isn't that how identity politics work?"

Hiku said:
Aeolus451 said:

 Do you not know the definition of statement? It's definitely not " meant to be taken factually". Here it is for ya to remind you. "A definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing". A statement is still an opinion. Also, you're singling out sentences that were meant to be read with other sentences. It changes their meaning without the rest of it. 

My point about my stated opinions still being opinions still stands.

A statement can be an opinion. But it can also be purely factual, void of any opinion. You didn't write it as if it was something you believed. I happened to ask you about it, but someone else may just read it and take it for face value.

What other sentences in the post changed the meaning of "They were allowed in because they were trans, not because they were qualified per se."?

The majority of the roles are not so dramatic as life or death situations. Alot of them are support related but alot of them are vital. I agree that there's no way they would hire someone for a role involving life or death situations if they were drastically unfit for that role or duty in general but if they had problems that would normally get them turned down, they'd might be let in anyway. That's why I brought up them lessing standards during times they need alot of troops or when they really need certain roles to show that they do that sometimes. They could get waivers for things that others might not get for as easily like criminal charges or health issues. There will likely never be any data or studies on this but I would like to see one. Anyway, I I think I'm done with this thread for a bit at least. I've been glued to my laptop, replying to people instead of watching hunter x hunter like I intended. Later, Hiku.

edit. i don't watch stuff like infowars or ancient aliens.

Apparently the recruitment process in the US is as follows: Meeting with a recruiter, taking the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB), going to a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS), choosing a Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), completing Basic Training as well as Advanced Individual Training (AIT).

So you chose your field after you've already been evaluated.
In other words, it seems they don't know if someone they accept will chose a role that has more responsibilities than others.
Though I don't know which military roles wouldn't be important during war deployment.

Hunter X Hunter is better than alien stories though.

Yes, that's the summarized version of the process. You're not quite choosing your roles but the roles you would like. Availability could change and you might not get the role ya want. It also depends on the branch of the military. It's been awhile since I checked into that stuff so that might have