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Forums - Politics Discussion - CNN Producer: Russia Narrative "mostly bulls--t right now", is manufactured for ratings

Why did Trump settle the Trump university case...the Fact Trump lost the case before it became a class action $750k, than the AG of New York had the class action for the other students + a civil RICO Act Violation attached case as well...of course Trump settled...



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Anti-Trust, self dealing and settled a $25million fraud case against him...and now the AG of both New York as well as Massachusetts both have sealed indictments against Trump foundations from Trump and his son's foundation...hmmm😉 what could those be? Maybe a criminal RICO Act Violation case, you need two instances in a 10 year period to start a criminal RICO Act Violation case, Trump university and + self dealing from within the Trump foundation...and a 3rd for money laundering...that's quite a bit of investigation...



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Whether or not the mediais "Trumping" (intended) up claims or not, people have been forced to resign over very shady connections with a country that most definitely interfered with the democratic process here. The Trump/Russia ties are plain to see for anyone with eyes. And of course cable news is going to blow it out of proportion and exploit it. That story is dynamite for a news agency -- ratings are soaring.



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StuOhQ said:
[...] a country that most definitely interfered with the democratic process here.

Considering that "interfering with the democratic process" is extremely vague and can mean just about anything, it's would be hard to prove that statement to be definitely wrong.

Almost every relevant country tries to influence the democratic elections in other countries. Whenever there is a democractic voting in some country, some other countries consider the outcome of this democratic process to touch their own interests, and they usually have a clear idea of the more and the less desirable outcome. So they try to influence the democratic process in favor of what they consider to be the more desirable outcome - but of course, that usually has nothing to do with tinfoil hat conspiracy theories like state-paid hackers meddling with voting machines or something like that, the most common (but not exclusive) approach is trying to influence the public opinion using means of propaganda.

My own country (Germany) for example tried very hard to influence the US presidential election and brexit voting. And of course, the country that is best known for trying to influence the democratic processes in other countries is the US itself. (BTW, there is a reason why the US was historically trying so hard to push "democracy" in other countries - that wasn't because of morals or because they deeply believed democracy to always be the best form of government. That's what you tell the public, but the main reason is of course that democratic countries are usually easier to influence from the outside than other forms of government.) Remember that back in the 1990s, the US clearly interfered with the russian election, with the TIME magazine even printing "Yanks to the rescue: The secret story of how American advisers helped Yeltsin win" on their cover.

So, did the russian government - like almost every other country - have a clear idea of whom they'd prefer as POTUS? Most definitely. Did they - like almost every other country - use common means like propaganda to influence the public opinion in favor of what they considered the more desirable outcome? Very likely. Did they do anything uncommon, like using state-payed "russian hackers" to manipulate the voting machines? Very unlikely. Are really the russians to blame for Trump becoming POTUS? Most definitely not. The are multiple smaller and bigger reasons why Trump won, but the biggest reason is probably that the democrats simply had a lousy candidate that the american public wasn't enthusiastic about either. Instead of choosing someone like Bernie Sanders who would have crushed Trump, they picked Killary and sabotaged Sanders. The democrats themselves are responsible for the outcome - the whole russia narrative is just a welcome scapegoat that they came up with.

StuOhQ said:
The Trump/Russia ties are plain to see for anyone with eyes.

At least if one really, reaaally desperately wants to see them.



vivster said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think in the end people care more about what a president attempts to do or accomplishes versus what they say. Quite frankly, Trump like many presidents has flip flopped when actually getting in office. What Obama ran as was very different than the man we got in office, its partially why Hillary lost.

Essentially, people support Trump in hope of healthcare becoming more affordable, better immigration security, be more aggressive on terrorism, and jobs. If he does well on those things, the bullshit that comes out of his mouth is not very important. Lies alone can't improve those things.

Healthcare is currently becoming less affordable(except for rich people and corporations), immigration security will certainly not increase with the proposed methods, Trump currently isn't more aggressive on Terrorism than Obama, the handful of coal jobs he's trying to safe do nothing for the economy and will plummet no matter what he does. So far nothing he did has improved anything, most of the things he claimed he has done, wasn't actually anything. Like pretending to sign a bill when it's just mere suggestions that have no power whatsoever.

And don't come with "oh but it's only been 6 months" excuse. Donald Trump was the one who claimed how fast he will fix everything. He's done nothing but harm his people and any credibility left in US politics and he will continue to do nothing/harm as we go on. Meanwhile his supporters are cheering that the master of the deal is making a worse deal with Mexico than he always claimed he would.

His people are cheering about every shit he does no matter if it hurts them or not.

The "but other politicians lie" doesn't hold up when the vast majority Trump is doing is lying while doing shit. First he said the healthcare bill was the greatest thing ever, then he said it was shit and what is he doing about it? Nothing. Because that's what he does, nothing.

"Wait and see" is already over. His aggressive incompetence is apparent and he won't change.

Rag on Obama as much as you want, at least he didn't make the highest job in the country a complete joke.

Healthcare became significantly less affordable when Obamacare mandates were put in. Especially when paying in to high premiums and penalties became required.

Immigration is already down simply because we have a president being tough on it. Simply enforcing existing laws better than Obama. Obama gets credit for thowing out the most illegals (although most happened at the border), but Obama actually encouraged them to come by being too lax on non criminal illegals. But it seems even criminal illegals kept coming back in, almost like there was no respect for the border.

The job situtation is doing pretty better under Trump, but I'm not going to predict it will last. We'll have to wait and see how that ends.

So you're suggesting we should judge the entire Trump administration based on a few months? Yeah, you're totally fair.

Obama taught me any president can have a strong following if they simply please their base. Even if their policies run the country into the ground with unsustainable policies like the ACA. Trump might be doing the same, but I'm not gonna judge his entire term in a few months. I atleast gave Obama numerous years before I determined he was awful.



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...is russia attempting to influence the election in america a new phenomenon?

...or do countries attempt to impact the governance of other countries quite regularly?

...such as the regime changes america regularly attempts in the middle east for example or ironically enough in the ukraine?

...if its not new, then why are people acting like it is?



Scoobes said:
Nem said:
He said theres no big proof, not that it's complete bullshit. It's beeing investigated. What is wrong about that?

The Hillary e-mails story was bullshit and Trump was all over that and saying how he loves Wikileaks.

The fact that news outlets can say whatever they want is their right. Fox news sure does alot of that crap. What isn't right is the US president lying all the time.

That really shouldn't be the case. When news outlets deceive (right or left) then it damages democracy nearly as much as when politicians do it. 

It's freedom of speach. You can't just forcibly shut them up. That's fascism. 

Quite honestly what is going on in the US atm and the attack that is beeing made to the media is a fascist attack. I would worry about that.

The difference here is that what people on TV say isn't the truth. Want to force them to tell the truth? Don't give them credit, don't watch them, make fun of them for beeing ridiculous. Like, this kind of thing only happen in the US. In the coutries i've lived in, any ridiculous claims are treated as ridiculous ones. They are pointed and left at and they lose all credibility. Be it polititians or anyone else.



o_O.Q said:
...is russia attempting to influence the election in america a new phenomenon?

...or do countries attempt to impact the governance of other countries quite regularly?

...such as the regime changes america regularly attempts in the middle east for example or ironically enough in the ukraine?

...if its not new, then why are people acting like it is?

Because they hate what the Trump movement stands for ideologically, which is:

*free and independent nation states

*the right of people to self-determination

*preservation of our history and cultural heritage

*a Western society based on the natural order and Judeo-Christian morals.

(in other words: conservatism)

Against this stands the whole world's leftist and liberal capitalist powers, who's goal is to create a multicultural utopia on the entire planet governed by a world government, no matter if it's against the will of the people. That's the only reason.

Leftists and globalists want to flood USA and Europe with people from the third world in order to destabilize our institutions and values, and dilute the white race and make us forget our identity, culture and history. Because socialism is by definition internationalist. It wants to destroy all nation states and mix all ethnic groups together in the whole world into a multicultural family. Capitalists on the other hand are strongly in on this idea because the elite will always economically profit in a world where there is free movement of people and trade, where there is desperate people for cheap labor. Capitalists are willing to sacrifice all human culture, tradition and values in the world in order to make more economic wealth for themselves.

The "Russia interference into US elections"-affair is artificially blown up to a huge thing only because of this goal.

The whole affair is totally bizarre. How can it even be illegal for Trump's people to discuss with the Russians before the elections and discuss a new US policy towards Russia and the Middle East?

But CNN and the rest of leftist media pumped up the case into some magic conspiracy.

It's a witch hunt against a democratically elected leader on a scale the world has never seen yet.



Slimebeast said:
o_O.Q said:
...is russia attempting to influence the election in america a new phenomenon?

...or do countries attempt to impact the governance of other countries quite regularly?

...such as the regime changes america regularly attempts in the middle east for example or ironically enough in the ukraine?

...if its not new, then why are people acting like it is?

Because they hate what the Trump movement stands for ideologically, which is:

*free and independent nation states

*the right of people to self-determination

*preservation of our history and cultural heritage

*a Western society based on the natural order and Judeo-Christian morals.

(in other words: conservatism)

Against this stands the whole world's leftist and liberal capitalist powers, who's goal is to create a multicultural utopia on the entire planet governed by a world government, no matter if it's against the will of the people. That's the only reason.

Leftists and globalists want to flood USA and Europe with people from the third world in order to destabilize our institutions and values, and dilute the white race and make us forget our identity, culture and history. Because socialism is by definition internationalist. It wants to destroy all nation states and mix all ethnic groups together in the whole world into a multicultural family. Capitalists on the other hand are strongly in on this idea because the elite will always economically profit in a world where there is free movement of people and trade, where there is desperate people for cheap labor. Capitalists are willing to sacrifice all human culture, tradition and values in the world in order to make more economic wealth for themselves.

The "Russia interference into US elections"-affair is artificially blown up to a huge thing only because of this goal.

The whole affair is totally bizarre. How can it even be illegal for Trump's people to discuss with the Russians before the elections and discuss a new US policy towards Russia and the Middle East?

But CNN and the rest of leftist media pumped up the case into some magic conspiracy.

It's a witch hunt against a democratically elected leader on a scale the world has never seen yet.

Worships Middle Eastern Man as his messiah. 

Hates Colored People. 

Simultaneously lumps Captialists AND Communists together in grand conspiracy theory. 

Yup, I'd say this is about par for the course. America is a multicultural country. Get over it. 

Trump is a buffoon who acts like a baby. He gets away with things no president would dream of doing. The funny thing he's manipulating most of his idiotic fan base. He's not going to do 90% of the things he talks about, it's just a con job, just as you would expect from a reality TV show star. 



the-pi-guy said:
Slimebeast said:

Because they hate what the Trump movement stands for ideologically, which is:

*free and independent nation states

*the right of people to self-determination

*preservation of our history and cultural heritage

 

*a Western society based on the natural order and Judeo-Christian morals.

Against this stands the whole world's leftist and liberal capitalist powers, who's goal is to create a multicultural utopia on the entire planet governed by a world government, no matter if it's against the will of the people. That's the only reason.

Leftists and globalists want to flood USA and Europe with people from the third world in order to destabilize our institutions and values, and dilute the white race and make us forget our identity, culture and history. Because socialism is by definition internationalist. It wants to destroy all nation states and mix all ethnic groups together in the whole world into a multicultural family. Capitalists on the other hand are strongly in on this idea because the elite will always economically profit in a world where there is free movement of people and trade, where there is desperate people for cheap labor. Capitalists are willing to sacrifice all human culture, tradition and values in the world in order to make more economic wealth for themselves.

The "Russia interference into US elections"-affair is artificially blown up to a huge thing only because of this goal.

The whole affair is totally bizarre. How can it even be illegal for Trump's people to discuss with the Russians before the elections and discuss a new US policy towards Russia and the Middle East?

But CNN and the rest of leftist media pumped up the case into some magic conspiracy.

It's a witch hunt against a democratically elected leader on a scale the world has never seen yet.

"Against this stands the whole world's leftist and liberal capitalist powers, who's goal is to create a multicultural utopia on the entire planet governed by a world government, no matter if it's against the will of the people. That's the only reason."

Most people don't want that.  The vast vast majority of people don't want that.  Liberal or conservative.  

Leftists and globalists want to flood USA and Europe with people from the third world in order to destabilize our institutions and values, and dilute the white race and make us forget our identity, culture and history. Because socialism is by definition internationalist. It wants to destroy all nation states and mix all ethnic groups together in the whole world into a multicultural family.

This doesn't even make any sense.  

Literally no one wants to destabilize our institutions and values.  

 

If this is what you think any of this is about, you are listening to far too many conspiracy websites.  

Yeah, the vast majority of common people don't want a one world government, but many in the elite do want it (sometimes unconsciously) and we're steadily heading in that direction.

The majority of Swedes didn't and still don't want mass immigration either, and didn't want to end up as a minority in their own country, and yet we ended up in minority. Because there are strong powers at work.

About destabilizing institutions and values, I understand my post gave room for some misunderstanding.

But think of social institutions, like the nuclear family, marriage, the celebration of religious festivals, gender roles, the church, religious communities... all these can be defined as institutions sociologically speaking. So I didn't necessarily refer to our physical authorities, like the parliament, social office, police force, universities etc by the word "institutions".

And about values. There has been a huge change of values from the 50's until now. (on human rights, racial issues, crime, freedom of speech, economic distribution and wellfare, family values, parental roles, the role of the state, the responsibility of the individual versus society, citizenship, immigration, traditions and history, homosexuality etc etc...

Huge topic. Very huge topic. Very very huge.