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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Valve is not your friend, and Steam is not healthy for gaming"

shikamaru317 said:

They get 30% from every game sold? Wow. I think I heard that Microsoft and Sony only get like 10% on their digital stores. Surprised so many indie devs release on PC first before moving on to console ports. I know that Steam has the biggest install base, but still, 30% is alot. 

Huh, I thought it was the same on consoles. Maybe I was wrong.



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shikamaru317 said:

They get 30% from every game sold? Wow. I think I heard that Microsoft and Sony only get like 10% on their digital stores. Surprised so many indie devs release on PC first before moving on to console ports. I know that Steam has the biggest install base, but still, 30% is alot. 

Nah both MS and Sony get their 30% as well.



Bofferbrauer said:
shikamaru317 said:

They get 30% from every game sold? Wow. I think I heard that Microsoft and Sony only get like 10% on their digital stores. Surprised so many indie devs release on PC first before moving on to console ports. I know that Steam has the biggest install base, but still, 30% is alot. 

Well, they don't need an SDK, their PCs are enough for that.

Also, updates (which happen relatively often with indies) cost extra on consoles. I think I remember something like 5000$ for every Update on Xbox ONE, which is punishingly high for such small developers

They have become free.






shikamaru317 said:
Barozi said:

Nah both MS and Sony get their 30% as well.

That makes me want to buy digital games a whole lot less. I know physical has alot of upfront costs as well; the disc, the in-case inserts, the case itself, the cost of shipping the game to retailers, and the retailers cut of the sale, but there's no way they're losing 30% on physical sales, or else they couldn't afford to sell physical games at $10 late in their life. 

I could be wrong, but a few years back, I think I remember reading publishers only make like $30 from each full-priced physical game. Digital is better for publishers, but you can't sell digital games, so it's also worse for a lot of consumers.



1. Every company has a refund policy. Most retailers will only do so for a limited time and also only give you store credit. That really is not a bad thing as you'd likely buy there again anyways. Its not steam's fault if you dislike a game (what other reason is there to really justify a digital game return?), its not like you can return a disliked and open game to gamestop, walmart, bestbuy, amazon, etc and get cash.

2. The sale mentality is a false summation on your part. Game creators would not put their games on Steam if it was not a profitable venture. So you can conclude very easily that selling a game on Steam makes them a profit. Sales happen everywhere, except Nintendo, and they actually drive sales and profit.

3. Of course Valve is not your friend. They are a company out to make a profit. No different than iTunes, Play Store, Amazon, Gamestop, etc. They offer a very value rich product that makes gaming on a PC, extremely simple. They've even attempted to further the approach by separating it from Windows (unsuccessfully), hardware (unsuccessfully) and software (successfully). Personally, I'd prefer to dump it completely but my kids like some games that are only on PC, so we keep a damn windows machine in the house. (#ChromebooksFTW) With that, we continue to buy the occasional Steam game at full price or on sale, depending on our patience and value perception for the game. Sure there will be a time when the game is no longer supported by some PC I own, but that is no different than my consoles, phones, etc.

In the end, there is nothing evil about Steam or Valve. Just your biased opinions where you put them on one party and not the others.



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I can buy on Steam, but, unless a game is a Steam exclusive, also on any other store, physical or digital, so in most cases Steam is another option, it adds and it doesn't take away freedom from me.



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shikamaru317 said:
Barozi said:

Nah both MS and Sony get their 30% as well.

That makes me want to buy digital games a whole lot less. I know physical has alot of upfront costs as well; the disc, the in-case inserts, the case itself, the cost of shipping the game to retailers, and the retailers cut of the sale, but there's no way they're losing 30% on physical sales, or else they couldn't afford to sell physical games at $10 late in their life. 

Publishers only get around 50% on physical sales. There's no guarantee retailers make money when selling games at a low price, but taking a small loss is still better than these games occupying so much inventory space or outright destroying them. Many games are sold below price to attract people to buy other stuff.
It also depends on the price retailers are buying stuff from the publishers. Obviously if a game has been out for years, they have to pay a lot less and thus can still profit, even when selling stuff for $10.



pokoko said:
That being said, it is rather odd how many people see Value as "the good guys".

It's because they earned that.
Just like CD Project Red has earned allot of respect... And in essence was allowed to spend a little of that banked respect on the "Cyber Punk" trademark garbage.
If it was a company using the... I dunno... Scrolls name it would be a completely different kettle of fish. Shit would hit the fan.

Valve reinvigorated PC gaming.
They brought the cost of games down for PC gamers.
They made PC games more accessible.
They pushed a community-centric focus on games, allowing for things like mods and multiplayer to prosper.
And so much more.

They have also made some of the best games of all time and actively supported those games years after release.

Microsoft had abandoned PC gaming to focus on Xbox. EA and Ubisoft never gave a crap about PC gaming... The PC pretty much had Blizzard and Valve, so obviously PC gamers are going to rally behind those companies.
But once Microsoft, EA and Ubisoft realised there was 180+ million PC gamers and a 30+ billion dollar market... They have tried to claw themselves back into the market with mixed results.

shikamaru317 said:
Barozi said:

Nah both MS and Sony get their 30% as well.

That makes me want to buy digital games a whole lot less. I know physical has alot of upfront costs as well; the disc, the in-case inserts, the case itself, the cost of shipping the game to retailers, and the retailers cut of the sale, but there's no way they're losing 30% on physical sales, or else they couldn't afford to sell physical games at $10 late in their life. 

They get their 30% cut even with Physical.

The difference with Steam and PC is that... A developer can cut out the massive chunk that a publisher demands, allowing developers to sell directly to consumers via Steam, that can bolster profit margins by a good 30-50% or more per sale.

Or you could be like Blizzard, EA etc' and not have your games on Steam at all and sell it via your own stores. Blizzard keeps 100% of a sale that way on PC, meaning it doesn't need high volumes to print money. (Although, they tend to sell a bucket load of games anyway.)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Heh, I never believed Valve were the good guys, they are just way less fucking annoying and shitty to deal with. I just wish EA wasn't so fucking annoying and not started their own Origin stuff, cause that thing is a giant piece of garbage. Also, outside of Monster Factory, Polygon is a pile of shit website, their opinion articles are generally not worth shit and are mostly just click baits.



Barozi said:
shikamaru317 said:

They get 30% from every game sold? Wow. I think I heard that Microsoft and Sony only get like 10% on their digital stores. Surprised so many indie devs release on PC first before moving on to console ports. I know that Steam has the biggest install base, but still, 30% is alot. 

Nah both MS and Sony get their 30% as well.

I had a college course on this a few years back. The console manufacturer gets $7-10 in fees. Next the publisher gets $10. Marketing is usually $10, but can be nothing if you don't want to market. Stores take $10-15. Shipping is $5. For a heavily marketed game where the developer is not the publisher, the dev gets $10 of your $60.

Nintendo makes a huge profit on their games because they are the dev, publisher, AND own the console. They also spend way less on marketing.

IMO Valve should only take $10 off every new release sale. With digital they can forego console royalties, publisher fees, store middlemen, and packaging. AAA PC titles could easily release for $40, but Valve and the devs want to make more money, instead of pass the savings on to the consumer. This is my main beef with digital sales right now. They are just a rip off at those prices.

Best Buy doesn't even charge the $15, which makes their games $45. They are banking on you buying additional products from their store, or paying interest on a credit card.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html