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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Valve is not your friend, and Steam is not healthy for gaming"

alabtrosMyster said:

1 - I refuse to click anything from Polygon, these guys proved to be idiots often enough by now...

3 - Complaining about the sales is counter productive, sure you pay much less for the games - however I, along many many people, bought games on the cheap I would never have considered otherwise... the point is, the money get spent, and the big titles get their early adopters $$$ (look at their best selling list, there are plenty of full price games in there)

4 - Who are you to complain about low prices? you're an investor? how is this the gamer's problem? I mean, there is enough back catalog, freeware titles, etc. that if there is some bubble and people sell their games "too cheap" (which is the publisher's prerogative to do it or not, believe me, they would not do it if it made no sense) and a couple of studios are forced into closing, we get less new stuff for a couple of years/months, we still have plenty of the old stuff to play with! yay!

5 - The rest is more or less blowing smoke to try to get people to consider the other storefronts, now they may have some benefit here and there, however, Steam is also the only one I can use as an interface for an HTPC! and it has its own features and benefits that no one else has... what can we do, trade one evil overlord for another? get all our games on the windows 10 store? or the EA/Ubisoft variants?

This

I will also like to point out that I have bought plenty of games that were not originally on my radar and I bought them JUST BECAUSE they were on sale. And I havent even played some of them.



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It's really obvious, but people don't want to see it and this article won't change it. Gamers tend to get pretty emotional, which isn't all that surprising since many of them are very young. They don't care about downsides, they don't even see it. They will cheer for their "team" no matter what. Nothing you can do about it.

I remember when steam was new that everybody hated it. Everyone got Half-Life for free when installing Steam and still nobody wanted it. A big argument was that steam would be killing the used market - exactly what happened just a few years later. With time people just got used to it. Doesn't help that most other services suck very hard at emulating the core functions of steam.

But anyway, every major company in gaming is trying to squeeze money out of their users. They have all shown that very openly in the past. Be it Valve, Microsoft, Sony, EA, Activision or Nintendo. There's really no point in defending any of them. But people will continue to do so. Just don't let it get to you, play the games, have fun and make decisions for yourself. I refused to use steam for a long time, but in the end couldn't avoid it. I'm only buying at keystores, not steam directly. I also prefer games from GOG with no DRM, sadly you only find so many titles there. I will not however defend steam or what they are doing.

The only ones we as gamers should care about, are the gamers themselves. Let the companies worry about themselves.



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Barozi said:
The worst part about it is that they make no more games.

I don't use Steam. Haven't in years. Still holding out on Half-life 3, though.



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Ka-pi96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I had a college course on this a few years back. The console manufacturer gets $7-10 in fees. Next the publisher gets $10. Marketing is usually $10, but can be nothing if you don't want to market. Stores take $10-15. Shipping is $5. For a heavily marketed game where the developer is not the publisher, the dev gets $10 of your $60.

Nintendo makes a huge profit on their games because they are the dev, publisher, AND own the console. They also spend way less on marketing.

IMO Valve should only take $10 off every new release sale. With digital they can forego console royalties, publisher fees, store middlemen, and packaging. AAA PC titles could easily release for $40, but Valve and the devs want to make more money, instead of pass the savings on to the consumer. This is my main beef with digital sales right now. They are just a rip off at those prices.

Best Buy doesn't even charge the $15, which makes their games $45. They are banking on you buying additional products from their store, or paying interest on a credit card.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html

That's not entirely true. They're not foregoing console royalties, physical PC games wouldn't have them either, so there's no saving there. Many games on Steam still do have publishers, so they are still paying the publisher fees regardless of being physical or digital. They still have store middlemen (that's effectively what Valve are). So the only thing they're really foregoing is packaging.

Oh, and if you think Steam digital prices are a rip off... just look at PSN/XBL UK prices, now those are a ripoff! Steam are at least in line with what you'd expect to pay for a physical copy, PSN/XBL are a fair chunk higher!

But physical games do have royalties on consoles. By putting the game on PC you are avoiding that. Steam's normal take on a $60 title is $18 or 30%. Most brick and mortar stores take $10-15 which is 16% to 25%. Steam doesn't have nearly as many costs as a brick and mortal store, yet they are charging more. Brick and mortar stores have to pay employees, and have to pay property taxes for example. Steam's take just isn't justified, given their low costs of operating. It's like they want to play the role of publisher, console maker, and middleman all at once.

You are right about the publishers still taking their share. It isn't just valve being greedy here. A lot of devs, and publishing companies are simply looking to have better profit margins on each game sold.

Oh yeah, digital prices on consoles are a lot worse like you said. At least steam has sales. At least with steam you can install your game to whatever computer as many times as you want. Digital on consoles is just a nightmare.



Who was going to save PC gaming....Microsoft? Lawl. No. Steam gave PC gaming what consoles had which PC's never had before. It gave PC a central community where transactions and socialization can occur while enjoying the perks of being a PC gamer. Not to mention I was playing valve games before steam was even a thing.



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Pemalite said:
pokoko said:
That being said, it is rather odd how many people see Value as "the good guys".

It's because they earned that.
Just like CD Project Red has earned allot of respect... And in essence was allowed to spend a little of that banked respect on the "Cyber Punk" trademark garbage.
If it was a company using the... I dunno... Scrolls name it would be a completely different kettle of fish. Shit would hit the fan.

Valve reinvigorated PC gaming.
They brought the cost of games down for PC gamers.
They made PC games more accessible.
They pushed a community-centric focus on games, allowing for things like mods and multiplayer to prosper.
And so much more.

They have also made some of the best games of all time and actively supported those games years after release.

Microsoft had abandoned PC gaming to focus on Xbox. EA and Ubisoft never gave a crap about PC gaming... The PC pretty much had Blizzard and Valve, so obviously PC gamers are going to rally behind those companies.
But once Microsoft, EA and Ubisoft realised there was 180+ million PC gamers and a 30+ billion dollar market... They have tried to claw themselves back into the market with mixed results.

shikamaru317 said:

That makes me want to buy digital games a whole lot less. I know physical has alot of upfront costs as well; the disc, the in-case inserts, the case itself, the cost of shipping the game to retailers, and the retailers cut of the sale, but there's no way they're losing 30% on physical sales, or else they couldn't afford to sell physical games at $10 late in their life. 

They get their 30% cut even with Physical.

The difference with Steam and PC is that... A developer can cut out the massive chunk that a publisher demands, allowing developers to sell directly to consumers via Steam, that can bolster profit margins by a good 30-50% or more per sale.

Or you could be like Blizzard, EA etc' and not have your games on Steam at all and sell it via your own stores. Blizzard keeps 100% of a sale that way on PC, meaning it doesn't need high volumes to print money. (Although, they tend to sell a bucket load of games anyway.)

Good points, and I suspect that at least 50% of these campaigns against Steam that regularly pop up are actually astroturfing stirred up by its competitors, paerticularly one that if left totally free to act would establish a true, horrible monopoly on PC.

Ka-pi96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

But physical games do have royalties on consoles. By putting the game on PC you are avoiding that. Steam's normal take on a $60 title is $18 or 30%. Most brick and mortar stores take $10-15 which is 16% to 25%. Steam doesn't have nearly as many costs as a brick and mortal store, yet they are charging more. Brick and mortar stores have to pay employees, and have to pay property taxes for example. Steam's take just isn't justified, given their low costs of operating. It's like they want to play the role of publisher, console maker, and middleman all at once.

You are right about the publishers still taking their share. It isn't just valve being greedy here. A lot of devs, and publishing companies are simply looking to have better profit margins on each game sold.

Oh yeah, digital prices on consoles are a lot worse like you said. At least steam has sales. At least with steam you can install your game to whatever computer as many times as you want. Digital on consoles is just a nightmare.

Physical games having royalties on consoles doesn't really matter though since that's not what Steam replaced. It replaced physical games on PC. I know there are some console devs now releasing games on PC too, but I expect the majority of Steam games would have been PC releases regardless of whether they were on Steam or whatever else.

Developers/publishers sure seem to think Steam's 30% take is justified though. If they didn't they'd go elsewhere or make their own online store where the take is lower. But Steam gives them what is probably the largest PC game storefront in the world to advertise and sell their games on and more often than not they think paying 30% of their sale is worth that.

You can say it loud, if I were a small but potentially successful dev, Steam would be an obvious choice to make someone else completely take care of the digital store stuff, and Steam quite big chunk would pay well in terms of total sales, my share on sales on Steam would almost surely be bigger, as income, than a larger percent share on any other store. Not to mention that I could sell on other stores too and not give Steam the exclusive.



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Screw Steam.

When I buy a PC game, it comes straight from the devs, and not through Steam. For example. Final Fantasy XIV do not require Steam, and that's the way I like it.



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deskpro2k3 said:
Screw Steam.

When I buy a PC game, it comes straight from the devs, and not through Steam. For example. Final Fantasy XIV do not require Steam, and that's the way I like it.

Do you buy straight from the devs on the consoles you own, that is without buying directly from the store of the company that runs the console?, like the way Steam does.

I take it you also don't own many of the latest games that are only found on Steam or any of the other clients.



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Chazore said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Screw Steam.

When I buy a PC game, it comes straight from the devs, and not through Steam. For example. Final Fantasy XIV do not require Steam, and that's the way I like it.

Do you buy straight from the devs on the consoles you own, that is without buying directly from the store of the company that runs the console?, like the way Steam does.

I take it you also don't own many of the latest games that are only found on Steam or any of the other clients.

 

pause for a second.

wtf does consoles have to do here? Steam games do not interest me at all.

if FFXIV, elite dangerous, star citizen, world of battleships etc was only on steam, then I might change my mind.



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