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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Emulation - The Legalities, Ethics, Benefits and Drawbacks

Zkuq said:
CladInShadows said:

Let's take emulation out of the equation.  Piracy is illegal.  If you play a game you don't own, you pirated it.  If you play a game you do own, you did not pirate it.  And adding emulation back in...if you emulate a game you down own, it's piracy.  If you emulate a game you do own, it's not piracy. 

Emulation and piracy are two separate concepts.  Emulation is just one (of many) way to play a game you either pirated or did not pirate.

If you admit they're different, act like it instead of saying emulation is piracy unless something. By saying what you did, you paint a narrative instead of conveying the truth.

The question was whether or not it was ok to pirate an old game that's now available on these newer micro consoles (NES Classic, SNES Classic, etc.).  And I said yes it's piracy.  And that it's always been piracy.  And that the only time it isn't piracy is when you own the game.  There was no question about emulation at all.  Where did I say emulation was piracy?  Because I am a huge advocate of emulation and piracy being two separate entities.



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CladInShadows said:
Zkuq said:

If you admit they're different, act like it instead of saying emulation is piracy unless something. By saying what you did, you paint a narrative instead of conveying the truth.

The question was whether or not it was ok to pirate an old game that's now available on these newer micro consoles (NES Classic, SNES Classic, etc.).  And I said yes it's piracy.  And that it's always been piracy.  And that the only time it isn't piracy is when you own the game.  There was no question about emulation at all.  Where did I say emulation was piracy?  Because I am a huge advocate of emulation and piracy being two separate entities.

Even if you own the game, unless you rip it yourself it's considered piracy.



VGPolyglot said:
CladInShadows said:

The question was whether or not it was ok to pirate an old game that's now available on these newer micro consoles (NES Classic, SNES Classic, etc.).  And I said yes it's piracy.  And that it's always been piracy.  And that the only time it isn't piracy is when you own the game.  There was no question about emulation at all.  Where did I say emulation was piracy?  Because I am a huge advocate of emulation and piracy being two separate entities.

Even if you own the game, unless you rip it yourself it's considered piracy.

Legally, you may be correct.  Morally, I don't care and will download at my leisure because the developer has my money.  If I go and pay someone other than the developer to get a rom dumper for an NES cart, the developer still doesn't see a dime of that. And the result is exactly the same.  We're just arguing semantics at this point.

I do rip all of my PS1, PS2, Wii, etc. discs though.

But nowhere did I say that emulation is piracy.  Never have.  Never will.



CladInShadows said:
VGPolyglot said:

Even if you own the game, unless you rip it yourself it's considered piracy.

Legally, you may be correct.  Morally, I don't care and will download at my leisure because the developer has my money.  If I go and pay someone other than the developer to get a rom dumper for an NES cart, the developer still doesn't see a dime of that. And the result is exactly the same.  We're just arguing semantics at this point.

I do rip all of my PS1, PS2, Wii, etc. discs though.

But nowhere did I say that emulation is piracy.  Never have.  Never will.

I think you misunderstood the intent of my post.



VGPolyglot said:
CladInShadows said:

Legally, you may be correct.  Morally, I don't care and will download at my leisure because the developer has my money.  If I go and pay someone other than the developer to get a rom dumper for an NES cart, the developer still doesn't see a dime of that. And the result is exactly the same.  We're just arguing semantics at this point.

I do rip all of my PS1, PS2, Wii, etc. discs though.

But nowhere did I say that emulation is piracy.  Never have.  Never will.

I think you misunderstood the intent of my post.

I think I must have. Care to explain?



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VGPolyglot said:

Even if you own the game, unless you rip it yourself it's considered piracy.

Undocumented gamer is the preferred term.



CladInShadows said:
Zkuq said:

If you admit they're different, act like it instead of saying emulation is piracy unless something. By saying what you did, you paint a narrative instead of conveying the truth.

The question was whether or not it was ok to pirate an old game that's now available on these newer micro consoles (NES Classic, SNES Classic, etc.).  And I said yes it's piracy.  And that it's always been piracy.  And that the only time it isn't piracy is when you own the game.  There was no question about emulation at all.  Where did I say emulation was piracy?  Because I am a huge advocate of emulation and piracy being two separate entities.

I have no idea what I've been thinking when reading this thread or rather, have I been thinking at all. I swear I read the post you quoted, then your post quoting said post, and I still didn't understand what was going on. Not my day, I guess, because now it's clear as day. So, uh, yeah, I was wrong and this whole discussion was pointless. Sorry.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Right, so the Cemu comparison isn't applicable because it happened in the past? Sorry, but past events are not automatically disqualified from being relevant to a discussion. What goal posts have I moved? You read, a little too much into that post. I simply wanted to see if VGpolyglot cared at all about piracy of modern console games, and it's clear the doesn't. 

What leads you to making these big sweeping conclusions? Do you honestly think I disqualified it because it happened in the past? No, I disqualified it because that past event doesn't make sense as an example now. 

We're talking about emulation of Wii U and PS3 games - games that came out on dying consoles. The moral dichatomy of an emulator coming out almost immediately after a console launches, and what you actually take issue with on this forum - talking about PS3 and Wii U games - is very different. 

The bolded is the same exact thing. The entire reason why people disqualify things that happened in the past is because they aren't applicable to today. I don't know what argument you thought I was making here, so I don't know what argument you were critiquing in your post. But I responded anyway because "But that happened in the past!" is almost never a good argument. 

Anyway it's not enough to say that two things are different, in order to conclude that a comparison/analogy doesn't apply. You need to point out the differences between the two things, and then point out why those differences change the outcome of the argument. In other words point out why the differences are relevant. 

For example: John was given an apple at 3pm, and Jane was given an orange at 3pm. Both went to the lunchroom to eat their fruit. Therefore both will return at the same time. It's not enough to say "but apples and oranges are different!". You need to point out that since an orange has a skin, it must be peeled before eating, which will likely take more time than simply eating the apple. The skin is the relevant difference inthe two fruits that changes the outcome of the argument. Another Example: John ate an apple, and Jane ate an orange. Therefore both will recieve vitamin C from eating the fruit. Now suppose somebody says "Oh but that's not true because apples and oranges are different!" Well that argument fails, because the differences are not relevant to the argument. 

But again, I didn't even have an argument to make. I was simply asking VGpolyglot a question. It wasn't rhetorical or anything. So there's no argument to apply the differences to in the first place. This is why I don't believe in reading between the lines. It leads to serious mistakes like this. So please don't get angry with me for not seeing something that you feel was obviously implied. 



zero129 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Normally that sort of thing would make sense. But when it's clear that the cops are crooked, and just want to keep the drug dealer in bussiness, we have a problem. 

The problem I have is that the mods are going out of their way to protect pirates to such an extent that it's clear they are crooked. I should be able to protest post in any threads concerning the emulation of BotW, or Persona 5 on PC. What the mods are doing right now is akin to telling abortion critics that they can't protest in front of or near an abortion clinic. Making a rule that you can't talk about either of those games in emulation threads does step on the toes of free speech. But making rules that you can't talk about piracy in emulation threads steps on the toes of free speech just as much. 

The hands off approach they took before was fine. Now that Miguel has gone ahead and made rules that people can't say specific things in emulation threads, he's favoring pirates. 

Its just that one emulation mega thread has a set of rules to keep it clean from users like you who would derail it with your bullshit.

In other emu related threads such as this one i made http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=232102&page=1# showing Persona 5 running in 4K using the new upscaling feature of RPCS3 you can talk about the ethics of it all you want, go ahead that thread is based on one of the games your protesting. I didnt even post that video in my emulation megathread to keep it clean from stuff like this. So knock yourself out.

I didn't even see that thread by sheer luck. But yeah I'll happily post in it. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

What leads you to making these big sweeping conclusions? Do you honestly think I disqualified it because it happened in the past? No, I disqualified it because that past event doesn't make sense as an example now. 

We're talking about emulation of Wii U and PS3 games - games that came out on dying consoles. The moral dichatomy of an emulator coming out almost immediately after a console launches, and what you actually take issue with on this forum - talking about PS3 and Wii U games - is very different. 

The bolded is the same exact thing. The entire reason why people disqualify things that happened in the past is because they aren't applicable to today. I don't know what argument you thought I was making here, so I don't know what argument you were critiquing in your post. But I responded anyway because "But that happened in the past!" is almost never a good argument. 

Anyway it's not enough to say that two things are different, in order to conclude that a comparison/analogy doesn't apply. You need to point out the differences between the two things, and then point out why those differences change the outcome of the argument. In other words point out why the differences are relevant. 

For example: John was given an apple at 3pm, and Jane was given an orange at 3pm. Both went to the lunchroom to eat their fruit. Therefore both will return at the same time. It's not enough to say "but apples and oranges are different!". You need to point out that since an orange has a skin, it must be peeled before eating, which will likely take more time than simply eating the apple. The skin is the relevant difference inthe two fruits that changes the outcome of the argument. Another Example: John ate an apple, and Jane ate an orange. Therefore both will recieve vitamin C from eating the fruit. Now suppose somebody says "Oh but that's not true because apples and oranges are different!" Well that argument fails, because the differences are not relevant to the argument. 

But again, I didn't even have an argument to make. I was simply asking VGpolyglot a question. It wasn't rhetorical or anything. So there's no argument to apply the differences to in the first place. This is why I don't believe in reading between the lines. It leads to serious mistakes like this. So please don't get angry with me for not seeing something that you feel was obviously implied. 

Great job with the condescending example. If you can't even tell the differences between the two then I don't know what to tell you man ... Not my problem, that's definitely yours.