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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Emulation - The Legalities, Ethics, Benefits and Drawbacks

VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Legally it's pretty much unenforcable, unless we want to shut down the internet. But the least we could do is ban talk of emulation of games that are on store shelves, on this message board. But the mods don't care if a game gets stolen or not. Since 30% to 10% of people emulating BotW or Persona 5 paid for a disc, they want to look the other way. When most people who loiter on a certain street corner are selling drugs, the cops don't just go "oh well, a small minority of them are legit so let's ignore the whole thing". They make a point to patrol the area more, and do everything they can to get the drug dealers out of their neighborhood. They make stake outs and do something about it. Now I realize that the mods aren't cops, and that they have no bussiness arresting people, but at the very least they should ban talk of certain games in emulation threads. They should be a nuisance to anybody that is just using the thread as a cover for piracy. 

The mods on these forums are like a police officer that thinks all drugs should be legal, and doesn't bother to enforce the law, because of it. "Oh, I know meth is illegal, but I believe in personal freedom and those methheads haven't hurt anybody yet, so I'm not going to arrest them for anything." "Oh, I know piracy is illegal, and the vast majority of people emulating BotW, or Persona 5, stole the game, but I'm going to let threads talking about it stay open." 

The mods putting rules in an "Official Emulation thread" is like the cops sitting in front of a crackhouse in order to protect the people inside from being shot at. In reality neither one is upholding the law, and unwittingly being a massive help to anybody that wants to break the law. 

The mods are doing their task by banning links to pirated copies of games, so you don't have to worry about that. What you're proposing is akin to making it illegal to talk about illegal drugs.

Banning links to pirated copies of games does nothing, since people already know where to go to get things like that. A few minutes of googling will easily bring you to the proper torrent. You're right that it is akin to banning talk of drugs. But at the same time, protecting these threads is akin to parking your patrol car in front of a crackhouse, and making sure everybody knows the local drug kingpin is not to be touched. The bottom line is that somebody on the mod team  is pirating games using an emulator, and doesn't like me talking about it. Just like how somebody on our hypothetical police force  is either using drugs or taking bribes. 



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vivster said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

In that case, copyright infringement is not theft, since nothing physical was taken away from the copyright holder. But we still have copyright laws for a reason, and we still enforce them. 

Copyright laws count only if you monetize copyrighted content. And then there is still fair use where you are allowed to take copyright content and use it to make money. Copyright laws are outdated and need to be updated anyway.

The laws don't apply to strictly personal use.

That would imply that Nintendo can't issue cease and desist orders on free fan games.

 

But they can.



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Cerebralbore101 said:

The bottom line is that somebody on the mod team  is pirating games using an emulator, and doesn't like me talking about it. Just like how somebody on our hyperthetical police force  is either using drugs or taking bribes. 

They're letting you talk about it right here...



vivster said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

In that case, copyright infringement is not theft, since nothing physical was taken away from the copyright holder. But we still have copyright laws for a reason, and we still enforce them. 

Copyright laws count only if you monetize copyrighted content. And then there is still fair use where you are allowed to take copyright content and use it to make money. Copyright laws are outdated and need to be updated anyway.

The laws don't apply to strictly personal use.

None of that takes away from the fact that copyright infringement is illegal. Your argument was that since digital piracy doesn't deal in physical goods it isn't theft. I countered that with the example that copyright infringement is still theft, even though it doesn't deal in physical goods. 

And the law does apply to personal use. ISPs are required by law to shut down your internet if they discover you are using it to pirate media. Napster was shut down due to contributory infringement. In the same sense, RPCS3 and Cemu should be shut down for contributory infringement. Especially since like Napster, they have made monetary gains by facilitating piracy. 

http://www.murdoch.edu.au/elaw/issues/v11n1/douglas111.html



VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

The bottom line is that somebody on the mod team  is pirating games using an emulator, and doesn't like me talking about it. Just like how somebody on our hyperthetical police force  is either using drugs or taking bribes. 

They're letting you talk about it right here...

Right, in a different thread. Just the same as if a cop is ok with you firing your gun while hunting, but not ok with you using it to kill the local drug dealer. 



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So what's the stance now on pirating old games when they're available to buy again?

I've seen a lot of arguments saying it's ok to pirate old games, to preserve them etc. However with all the classic/mini consoles coming out now, GOG adding more and more classics, does that argument still hold any water? Star fox 2 for example, time to put the download to rest? Or is the argument now, it's too hard to get, can't wait until I find one in a shop, must pirate now. Or it's not good enough, I want it on the convenience of my pc in 4K with mustaches drawn on all the characters.

Which brings up the ethics of mods. Sure you can do whatever you want to your software in your own privacy. Yet publishing videos of modded games, is that ethical? I would be upset too if somebody published a video and mods if I made a game and all the characters were replaced with questionable stuff. To what extent should an artist's creation be protected.

Emulation is not illegal. Yet using someone else's work to show off how 'clever' you are modifying it, is. Of course it's mostly harmless, and making something yourself is hard work.



Cerebralbore101 said:
VGPolyglot said:

They're letting you talk about it right here...

Right, in a different thread. Just the same as if a cop is ok with you firing your gun while hunting, but not ok with you using it to kill the local drug dealer. 

I'd say that actually makes a lot of sense, allowing it for hunting but not to kill local drug dealers.



VGPolyglot said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Right, in a different thread. Just the same as if a cop is ok with you firing your gun while hunting, but not ok with you using it to kill the local drug dealer. 

I'd say that actually makes a lot of sense, allowing it for hunting but not to kill local drug dealers.

Normally that sort of thing would make sense. But when it's clear that the cops are crooked, and just want to keep the drug dealer in bussiness, we have a problem. 

The problem I have is that the mods are going out of their way to protect pirates to such an extent that it's clear they are crooked. I should be able to protest post in any threads concerning the emulation of BotW, or Persona 5 on PC. What the mods are doing right now is akin to telling abortion critics that they can't protest in front of or near an abortion clinic. Making a rule that you can't talk about either of those games in emulation threads does step on the toes of free speech. But making rules that you can't talk about piracy in emulation threads steps on the toes of free speech just as much. 

The hands off approach they took before was fine. Now that Miguel has gone ahead and made rules that people can't say specific things in emulation threads, he's favoring pirates. 



xl-klaudkil said:
Piracy,noo matter how you look at it, this topic should be closed.

Virtual consoleis piracy, no matte rhow you look at it?

I think you have no idea what emulation really involves.



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VGPolyglot said:
p0isonparadise said:

Yeah, and no one buys albums anymore. 

I guess the memories I have of buying albums earlier this year were just false memories implanted into my brain

Same with the album I bought this morning.  Ptrobably a drug-induced halucination.