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TH3-D0S3R said:
Chris Hu said:

Also him going to Denver would not work cap wise either Denver pretty much has little to no cap space.  The only way that would work out if Denver trades Paul Milsap and some other players or draft picks to Cleveland to get him. 

Like I said I figured it isn't likely. All you really have to do is trade Milsap and Plumlee and you've cleared over $40 million, but again, I could never see Lebron playing in Denver.

As for the other two, I don't agree that Lillard is overrated, I just think he needs a different piece other than CJ and 8 role players. He puts up great numbers in the regular season, and if you're gonna throw him into the choking in the playoff camp, you have to also admit that DeRozan, Westbrook, and Harden are overrated. I think that both DeRozan and Westbrook are overrated, but Harden is someone I cant say is overrated.

Harden is very overrated imo. People talk about this guy like he's Kobe Bryant, which is just ridiculous to me, and I say that as someone who never particularly cared for Kobe. Harden is completely lethargic on defense, to the point where it's frankly embarrassing. His game is predicated more on baiting you into fouls, and getting to the free throw line, than actually making shots. He completely disappears whenever you need him most. And perhaps most importantly….he just strikes me as not really caring all that much. I mean when you look at how he went out last year to the Spurs…..for him to be out partying later that night, getting his jersey hung up at a strip club, etc......I mean that is just weak. I'm sorry, but I can't respect you as a competitor after that. Maybe that's an indictment of me more so than him, that I would begrudge someone being able to just instantly move on after something like that, and get on with his summer, have a good time or whatever. Maybe. Maybe that's my problem. But damn it, I want people to want it bad, and be hurting bad when they come up that short. I wanna see them get pissed, or disappear to a quiet, determined place, looking to come back and light the world on fire. If you're out there partying it up the night after you get bounced, and you looked like a bum? Man. You can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

I'd don't care if Lillard had himself a bad series this year, I'd take him any day over Harden.

 

I mean look at this dude: https://streamable.com/ain57

Game 7 of a WCF, and this guy is giving zero fucks. No thanks to all that



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TH3-D0S3R said:
Chris Hu said:

Also him going to Denver would not work cap wise either Denver pretty much has little to no cap space.  The only way that would work out if Denver trades Paul Milsap and some other players or draft picks to Cleveland to get him. 

Like I said I figured it isn't likely. All you really have to do is trade Milsap and Plumlee and you've cleared over $40 million, but again, I could never see Lebron playing in Denver.

As for the other two, I don't agree that Lillard is overrated, I just think he needs a different piece other than CJ and 8 role players. He puts up great numbers in the regular season, and if you're gonna throw him into the choking in the playoff camp, you have to also admit that DeRozan, Westbrook, and Harden are overrated. I think that both DeRozan and Westbrook are overrated, but Harden is someone I cant say is overrated.

Yeah, nope Lillard is extremely overrated he got outplayed Rondo in playoffs who isn't exactly anywhere near his prime anymore and totally embarrassed by the entire Pelican team in the first round since they where the only team that got swept.



Angelus said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

Like I said I figured it isn't likely. All you really have to do is trade Milsap and Plumlee and you've cleared over $40 million, but again, I could never see Lebron playing in Denver.

As for the other two, I don't agree that Lillard is overrated, I just think he needs a different piece other than CJ and 8 role players. He puts up great numbers in the regular season, and if you're gonna throw him into the choking in the playoff camp, you have to also admit that DeRozan, Westbrook, and Harden are overrated. I think that both DeRozan and Westbrook are overrated, but Harden is someone I cant say is overrated.

Harden is very overrated imo. People talk about this guy like he's Kobe Bryant, which is just ridiculous to me, and I say that as someone who never particularly cared for Kobe. Harden is completely lethargic on defense, to the point where it's frankly embarrassing. His game is predicated more on baiting you into fouls, and getting to the free throw line, than actually making shots. He completely disappears whenever you need him most. And perhaps most importantly….he just strikes me as not really caring all that much. I mean when you look at how he went out last year to the Spurs…..for him to be out partying later that night, getting his jersey hung up at a strip club, etc......I mean that is just weak. I'm sorry, but I can't respect you as a competitor after that. Maybe that's an indictment of me more so than him, that I would begrudge someone being able to just instantly move on after something like that, and get on with his summer, have a good time or whatever. Maybe. Maybe that's my problem. But damn it, I want people to want it bad, and be hurting bad when they come up that short. I wanna see them get pissed, or disappear to a quiet, determined place, looking to come back and light the world on fire. If you're out there partying it up the night after you get bounced, and you looked like a bum? Man. You can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

I'd don't care if Lillard had himself a bad series this year, I'd take him any day over Harden.

 

I mean look at this dude: https://streamable.com/ain57

Game 7 of a WCF, and this guy is giving zero fucks. No thanks to all that

Yeah, nope again Lillard is extremely overrated like I said before he got outplayed by Rondo in the playoffs and Rondo is nowhere near his prime and maybe has one or two good years left in his career.  That being said I take Rondo next season over Lillard any day of the week.  And I take playoff Rondo over playoff Lillard no matter what other players are on my team.  Regular season Rondo is still better then  Lillard and playoff Rondo is ten times better then Lillard.



Chris Hu said:
Angelus said:

Harden is very overrated imo. People talk about this guy like he's Kobe Bryant, which is just ridiculous to me, and I say that as someone who never particularly cared for Kobe. Harden is completely lethargic on defense, to the point where it's frankly embarrassing. His game is predicated more on baiting you into fouls, and getting to the free throw line, than actually making shots. He completely disappears whenever you need him most. And perhaps most importantly….he just strikes me as not really caring all that much. I mean when you look at how he went out last year to the Spurs…..for him to be out partying later that night, getting his jersey hung up at a strip club, etc......I mean that is just weak. I'm sorry, but I can't respect you as a competitor after that. Maybe that's an indictment of me more so than him, that I would begrudge someone being able to just instantly move on after something like that, and get on with his summer, have a good time or whatever. Maybe. Maybe that's my problem. But damn it, I want people to want it bad, and be hurting bad when they come up that short. I wanna see them get pissed, or disappear to a quiet, determined place, looking to come back and light the world on fire. If you're out there partying it up the night after you get bounced, and you looked like a bum? Man. You can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

I'd don't care if Lillard had himself a bad series this year, I'd take him any day over Harden.

 

I mean look at this dude: https://streamable.com/ain57

Game 7 of a WCF, and this guy is giving zero fucks. No thanks to all that

Yeah, nope again Lillard is extremely overrated like I said before he got outplayed by Rondo in the playoffs and Rondo is nowhere near his prime and maybe has one or two good years left in his career.  That being said I take Rondo next season over Lillard any day of the week.  And I take playoff Rondo over playoff Lillard no matter what other players are on my team.  Regular season Rondo is still better then  Lillard and playoff Rondo is ten times better then Lillard.

It's not even so much about Lillard, though I do like him overall (like I said, he had a poor series….very poor even), I just REALLY dislike Harden. 



Say what you want about Harden but he lead the league in scoring this year and passing last year. Lillard on the other hand is not a good enough scorer or passer to ever lead the league in passing or scoring. On top off all that he is not good enough to ever become a league MVP and Harden will win it this year and will more then likely win a couple more.



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Angelus said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

Like I said I figured it isn't likely. All you really have to do is trade Milsap and Plumlee and you've cleared over $40 million, but again, I could never see Lebron playing in Denver.

As for the other two, I don't agree that Lillard is overrated, I just think he needs a different piece other than CJ and 8 role players. He puts up great numbers in the regular season, and if you're gonna throw him into the choking in the playoff camp, you have to also admit that DeRozan, Westbrook, and Harden are overrated. I think that both DeRozan and Westbrook are overrated, but Harden is someone I cant say is overrated.

Harden is very overrated imo. People talk about this guy like he's Kobe Bryant, which is just ridiculous to me, and I say that as someone who never particularly cared for Kobe. Harden is completely lethargic on defense, to the point where it's frankly embarrassing. His game is predicated more on baiting you into fouls, and getting to the free throw line, than actually making shots. He completely disappears whenever you need him most. And perhaps most importantly….he just strikes me as not really caring all that much. I mean when you look at how he went out last year to the Spurs…..for him to be out partying later that night, getting his jersey hung up at a strip club, etc......I mean that is just weak. I'm sorry, but I can't respect you as a competitor after that. Maybe that's an indictment of me more so than him, that I would begrudge someone being able to just instantly move on after something like that, and get on with his summer, have a good time or whatever. Maybe. Maybe that's my problem. But damn it, I want people to want it bad, and be hurting bad when they come up that short. I wanna see them get pissed, or disappear to a quiet, determined place, looking to come back and light the world on fire. If you're out there partying it up the night after you get bounced, and you looked like a bum? Man. You can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned.

I'd don't care if Lillard had himself a bad series this year, I'd take him any day over Harden.

 

I mean look at this dude: https://streamable.com/ain57

Game 7 of a WCF, and this guy is giving zero fucks. No thanks to all that

I understand completely and somewhat mildly agree. I never view Harden as say Kobe material because Kobe is in my top 3 all time (1.MJ 2.Kobe 3.Kareem). If I would compare Harden to anyone I would say he's an inferior version of Clyde Drexler. That being said, I don't know if I would take Lillard over Harden purely because even when Harden is bad he gets 25-30, but I will take Lillard over Westbrook.

I did question Harden's mentality when he was smiling after game 7, but he's top 10 in the league to me. Lillard and Westbrook are more Top 15-20.



Chris Hu said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

Like I said I figured it isn't likely. All you really have to do is trade Milsap and Plumlee and you've cleared over $40 million, but again, I could never see Lebron playing in Denver.

As for the other two, I don't agree that Lillard is overrated, I just think he needs a different piece other than CJ and 8 role players. He puts up great numbers in the regular season, and if you're gonna throw him into the choking in the playoff camp, you have to also admit that DeRozan, Westbrook, and Harden are overrated. I think that both DeRozan and Westbrook are overrated, but Harden is someone I cant say is overrated.

Yeah, nope Lillard is extremely overrated he got outplayed Rondo in playoffs who isn't exactly anywhere near his prime anymore and totally embarrassed by the entire Pelican team in the first round since they where the only team that got swept.

Normal Rondo may not be his best anymore, but don't underestimate Playoff Rondo. Rondo has been known to exceed expectations in the postseason, and that Pelican team was actually pretty damn solid. Lillard to me is an all star, he just needs someone who isn't similar to him such as CJ. Until Lillard is given his own set of circumstances and chokes this argument is purely hypothetical, and there is no clear indication to say Lillard is overrated. He got 1st team and deserved it. We aren't saying Lillard is a world beater, we're saying that Lillard needs help or needs a change of scene for his true capabilities to come out.



Chris Hu said:
Say what you want about Harden but he lead the league in scoring this year and passing last year. Lillard on the other hand is not a good enough scorer or passer to ever lead the league in passing or scoring. On top off all that he is not good enough to ever become a league MVP and Harden will win it this year and will more then likely win a couple more.

Put Lillard on a D'Antoni offense as the ball dominant guard and he'll do the exact same thing Harden is doing. Lillard has like the exact same career average PPG as Harden. Just because Harden scores like 3 more PPG now that he's in D'Antoni's system doesn't magically make him way better than Lillard.



Angelus said:
Chris Hu said:

Yeah, nope again Lillard is extremely overrated like I said before he got outplayed by Rondo in the playoffs and Rondo is nowhere near his prime and maybe has one or two good years left in his career.  That being said I take Rondo next season over Lillard any day of the week.  And I take playoff Rondo over playoff Lillard no matter what other players are on my team.  Regular season Rondo is still better then  Lillard and playoff Rondo is ten times better then Lillard.

It's not even so much about Lillard, though I do like him overall (like I said, he had a poor series….very poor even), I just REALLY dislike Harden. 

He had a poor career so far period and like I said before is highly overrated.  I guess Harden has to win a title shut up all the haters but I take Harden over Lillard easily.  He just needs to adjust his game in the playoffs a bit to be more effective because its harder to get foul calls in the playoffs.  That being said he got way farther in the playoffs this year then Lillard will more then likely ever get in his entire career.  Out of the team in the West that made the playoffs OKC will drop off the most and Portland will drop off the second both should miss the playoffs next season.



Chris Hu said:
Angelus said:

It's not even so much about Lillard, though I do like him overall (like I said, he had a poor series….very poor even), I just REALLY dislike Harden. 

He had a poor career so far period and like I said before is highly overrated.  I guess Harden has to win a title shut up all the haters but I take Harden over Lillard easily.  He just needs to adjust his game in the playoffs a bit to be more effective because its harder to get foul calls in the playoffs.  That being said he got way farther in the playoffs this year then Lillard will more then likely ever get in his entire career.  Out of the team in the West that made the playoffs OKC will drop off the most and Portland will drop off the second both should miss the playoffs next season.

How has Lillard had a poor career? He's never been on the kind of championship capable team that Harden has had multiple times in his career. Lillard once won a playoff series pretty much single handedly. When has Harden done that? 

And again, their stats are VERY similar, so I don't know how you can say one guy has had a poor career, but the other is all that.

Lillard: 23.1PPG on 43.2% shooting, 36.8% from deep, 88.4% from the line, 6.2 assists, 4.1 rebounds

Harden: 23.0PPG on 44.3% shooting, 36.4% from deep, 85.4% from the line, 6.1 assists, 5.1 rebounds

If Lillard had been put in the same kind of team situations Harden has had in his career, there's no question in my mind he'd be handily outperforming him. Just my opinion.