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Forums - General Discussion - Man violently removed from United Airlines plane. ~Update~ United may have broken the law.

VGPolyglot on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:

2) What you are saying is basically to be an archist :)

Like ("you" being the dude): you do not like this rule or think that the rule does not exist (because it is about how dumb or unfair the rule is here, you have to realize that) therefor you choose to do not listen to authorities and do whatever the fuck I want, Including delaying not only the fly I'm on with hundred of passengers but also most likely fucking up other flight those 4 employees (crew) are need for. Sorry but I will never agree this is the right thing to do in a society.

There are just right ways to do things. Forcively resisting the authorities when they are trying to get you out of a plane... Is not one of them :)
Suing United after being de-plane and proving they were wrong, is the right way to do it.

Actually, anarchism isn't the belief that you can do whatever you want. Anarchism is the ideology that opposes unjustified authority and a repressive hierarchy. Of course, this would fall into that category, as a rich company were able to use their police cronies to beat the shit out of a guy for the horrific crime of wanting to ride a plane that he paid for.



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Imaginedvl on 11 April 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Imaginedvl said:

2) What you are saying is basically to be an archist :)

Like ("you" being the dude): you do not like this rule or think that the rule does not exist (because it is about how dumb or unfair the rule is here, you have to realize that) therefor you choose to do not listen to authorities and do whatever the fuck I want, Including delaying not only the fly I'm on with hundred of passengers but also most likely fucking up other flight those 4 employees (crew) are need for. Sorry but I will never agree this is the right thing to do in a society.

There are just right ways to do things. Forcively resisting the authorities when they are trying to get you out of a plane... Is not one of them :)
Suing United after being de-plane and proving they were wrong, is the right way to do it.

Actually, anarchism isn't the belief that you can do whatever you want. Anarchism is the ideology that opposes unjustified authority and a repressive hierarchy. Of course, this would fall into that category, as a rich company were able to use their police cronies to beat the shit out of a guy for the horrific crime of wanting to ride a plane that he paid for.

That's a nice way to justify anarchism in some case for sure :)
But that apart, I do not why it was not justified in the first place. There is a difference between justified and being considerate you know.

If United has a clause in the contract you need to follow when you buy a ticjet, saying they can ask someone to get removed (eps. for the good of many in that case because another plane was waiting for the crew); nothing is un-justified here. you can call this very bad customer treatement or service but nothing is wrong at the end.



VGPolyglot on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
VGPolyglot said:

Actually, anarchism isn't the belief that you can do whatever you want. Anarchism is the ideology that opposes unjustified authority and a repressive hierarchy. Of course, this would fall into that category, as a rich company were able to use their police cronies to beat the shit out of a guy for the horrific crime of wanting to ride a plane that he paid for.

That's a nice way to justify anarchism in some case for sure :)
But that apart, I do not why it was not justified in the first place. There is a difference between justified and being considerate you know.

If United has a clause in the contract you need to follow when you buy a ticjet, saying they can ask someone to get removed (eps. for the good of many in that case because another plane was waiting for the crew); nothing is un-justified here. you can call this very bad customer treatement or service but nothing is wrong at the end.

Where is the clause that says that?



Porcupine_I on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Just to clarify on that... are you saying that if an "authority" came up to you told you to do something, you'd just blindly agree and ignore that it went against your rights?

Rules are rules... And part of your rights are to follow them not ignore them whenever you feel like it.
Yes, in an airport (and a plane), when airport authorities or police request you to de-plane, you blindly agree because it is the law and you should be smart enough (the dude was not) to understand that you will get out of the plane no matter what (if you think are wrong or right about the decision does not matter at this time)...

Then after that you can sue, cry, act the way you want and defend your "rights"... But again, that's 2 different things.

"Rules" are not Laws. The man had not broken any law. The Police is supposed to uphold the law, they are not there to enforce the rules of a private organisation. There was no security concerns or dangerous situation. 



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

VGPolyglot on 11 April 2017
Porcupine_I said:
Imaginedvl said:

Rules are rules... And part of your rights are to follow them not ignore them whenever you feel like it.
Yes, in an airport (and a plane), when airport authorities or police request you to de-plane, you blindly agree because it is the law and you should be smart enough (the dude was not) to understand that you will get out of the plane no matter what (if you think are wrong or right about the decision does not matter at this time)...

Then after that you can sue, cry, act the way you want and defend your "rights"... But again, that's 2 different things.

"Rules" are not Laws. The man had not broken any law. The Police is supposed to uphold the law, they are not there to enforce the rules of a private organisation. There was no security concerns or dangerous situation. 

Actually, I'd say that upholding the law is a secondary goal to enforcing the rules of private organisations for the police.



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SvennoJ on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
SvennoJ said:

1) There was no valid reason to remove him after boarding.

2) The airport authorities were abused by the airline in this case. They are their to protect the safety not to make passengers comply with the wishes of the airline. He was in his right to refuse and there was definitely no reason to manhandle him. The authorities can only ask the person nicely in this case. It's not their job to act as the airline's goon squad. They should have simply told the airline there was nothing they could do at this point, find another solution. The problem escalated as the authorities were blindfully following the instructions of the airline. It's not a no brainer, he was in his right to challenge the authorities and the airline in this case. The authorities and the airline were in the wrong for acting the way they did.

1) Who's deciding that that, you? I mean based on the contract you are attach to when buying a ticket from this airliner; they have the right to remove anyone from the flight based on their own rules. You may disagree or think this sucks and this company is trash... But their rules are their rules on their planes. And while you may start saying the Airline is lying, bullshiting, being evil and blah blah blah... At the end, it is to prove that they effectively can or cannot do that based on the contract you have to follow when you buy the ticket and I really think United has a paragraph for that kind of situation

But now, let's say that United was wrong...

2) What you are saying is basically to be an archist :)

Like ("you" being the dude): you do not like this rule or think that the rule does not exist (because it is about how dumb or unfair the rule is here, you have to realize that) therefor you choose to do not listen to authorities and do whatever the fuck I want, Including delaying not only the fly I'm on with hundred of passengers but also most likely fucking up other flight those 4 employees (crew) are need for. Sorry but I will never agree this is the right thing to do in a society.

There are just right ways to do things. Forcively resisting the authorities when they are trying to get you out of a plane... Is not one of them :)
Suing United after being de-plane and proving they were wrong, is the right way to do it.

Is it? How many times has this happened before without anyone ever batting an eye at this practice?

The security officer got suspended, seems he was in the wrong. The airline has a PR nightmare and faces an expensive lawsuit. Perhaps it will even lead to re-evaluatoing what shitty practices airlines can and can't do. That's how society works.



ArchangelMadzz on 11 April 2017
Aeolus451 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yes, they could have refused service by not accepting his money. However, they did, so they entered a contract.

Now, you're just being silly. 

No actually that's not silly. That's how it works. 



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

Imaginedvl on 11 April 2017
SvennoJ said:
Imaginedvl said:

1) Who's deciding that that, you? I mean based on the contract you are attach to when buying a ticket from this airliner; they have the right to remove anyone from the flight based on their own rules. You may disagree or think this sucks and this company is trash... But their rules are their rules on their planes. And while you may start saying the Airline is lying, bullshiting, being evil and blah blah blah... At the end, it is to prove that they effectively can or cannot do that based on the contract you have to follow when you buy the ticket and I really think United has a paragraph for that kind of situation

But now, let's say that United was wrong...

2) What you are saying is basically to be an archist :)

Like ("you" being the dude): you do not like this rule or think that the rule does not exist (because it is about how dumb or unfair the rule is here, you have to realize that) therefor you choose to do not listen to authorities and do whatever the fuck I want, Including delaying not only the fly I'm on with hundred of passengers but also most likely fucking up other flight those 4 employees (crew) are need for. Sorry but I will never agree this is the right thing to do in a society.

There are just right ways to do things. Forcively resisting the authorities when they are trying to get you out of a plane... Is not one of them :)
Suing United after being de-plane and proving they were wrong, is the right way to do it.

Is it? How many times has this happened before without anyone ever batting an eye at this practice?

The security officer got suspended, seems he was in the wrong. The airline has a PR nightmare and faces an expensive lawsuit. Perhaps it will even lead to re-evaluatoing what shitty practices airlines can and can't do. That's how society works.

Yes the dude got suspended (which is normal in any case like that and when they is a investigation and does not prove any of your point).

But yes, that's how society works today, entitled peoples. You are right about that. The person decided not to comply and now all the shitstorm is coming and will most likely impact a LOT of people that were just doing their job...

 

 



ArchangelMadzz on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:

The guy did not want to get out... What do you mean by time? I'm sorry but no, other people do not have to wait (what? hours? Days? Take another plane because of this parasite?) just because he decided to do not comply and give a finger to that same "society" with rules and authorities? And all the people on tthe plane shluld wait because of him, where is the decency towards all other passengers?

Decency also includes other people and the impact of his behavior... 

Good you talk about the society because it actually shows that now, some people really feel like you should respect them so much, not touch them, let them not comply with authorities and do whatever they want until "they" decide to move or comply... I'm sorry but this all wrong imo. Esp. after asking him multiple time with a lot of decency before

What the fuck makes this guy a 'parasite'?

You don't even view him as a human being, it's very difficult to take your argument seriously in any way. Especially when they actually could've broken the law as there is no mention of forceful removal in their guidlines. 



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

SvennoJ on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
SvennoJ said:

Is it? How many times has this happened before without anyone ever batting an eye at this practice?

The security officer got suspended, seems he was in the wrong. The airline has a PR nightmare and faces an expensive lawsuit. Perhaps it will even lead to re-evaluatoing what shitty practices airlines can and can't do. That's how society works.

Yes the dude got suspended (which is normal in any case like that and when they is a investigation and does not prove any of your point).

But yes, that's how society works today, entitled peoples. You are right about that. The person decided not to comply and now all the shitstorm is coming and will most likely impact a LOT of people that were just doing their job...

I didn't mean entitled people by my comment. I meant it takes a shitstorm in today's society to get people to re-evaluate shitty practices. Just doing your job is a terrible excuse no matter what profession you're in, airline stooge or security officer.