By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - The power gap between Scorpio and PS4 Pro might be greater than the Switch and the PS4 Slim.

Doesn't matter we know the law around here.



Around the Network
SegataSanshiro said:
Sony responds with lower price says how cute and has more games. I don't think they have anything to worry about for now. Switch is probably a bigger danger to PS4 than Scorpio.

With that logic maybe Sony shouldn't have released the PS4 Pro.

I'm just curious to see what Scorpio can do and if it has the best ports, great.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

malistix1985 said:
taus90 said:
the power difference at 4 tf to 6 tf has very diminishing returns unlike the jump from ps4 to pro or xbox to scorpio.. but the real problem is, is scorpio just an xbox one or a separate console. for e.g. PS4 Pro is recognized as just PS4 not a seprate console and hence this is where its held back, coz if devs are given the go ahead to use that extra power in their game, then multiplayer will go for a toss, Pro players will have an advantage with increase draw distance and IQ. same with scorpio MS just wouldnt want scorpio to ruin multiplayer for existing Xbox one owners, so they would either have a separate servers where only scorpio owners will play, or hold back the game graphically to xbox one specs and let scorpio mix in the pool.

The difference between 8GB (or 9 in pro) to 12GB and a completely different CPU is a big difference...
The Power will be used effeciently because they develop games for XBox One and PC and will use the PC version and use the settings to scale with the Scorpio, 4k textures etc will automatically be available since they are created for the PC anyway.

6Tflops will be used better because the console won't run into bottlebecks, like Dark Souls III not being able to hit 60fps on PS4 pro isn't because of the speed of the GPU, a 470RX can easely hit 60fps, its most likely a memory or CPU bottleneck, many people making comparison video's like VGTech or Digital foundry have found multiple instances of memory or cpu bottlenecks on the Pro.

So the 6Tflops will be used much more favourable because of the extra memory speed, bigger memory bus and more available memory and if the rumours are true and the console uses a Ryzen architecture APU then you can take the "Tflops" fight with a grain of salt, the Scorpio will blow anything we've seen in the console space away

Kind of dissagree, having been working on Android platform for 5 years now, the difference vulcan api make on older hardware is huge. I can say, yes efficiency will be better for scorpio due to higher bandwidth, but your theory is based on windows Direct x under PC envoirnment which has too take underconsditeration various other api's running in the background over 100's of hardware combinations and kernels,  also xbox one is already using PC port or (PC like development structure) coz its using highly modified low level Direct X 11.2 api compared to PC and slightly modified direct x 12, so these low level api negates whatever benefits scorpio is rummored to have.. which is completely opp on PC where it does make a difference.

The best example is the current Gen the difference in performance will be similar to PS4 over x1.. both of them will have almost similar IQ and LoD just one of them is running at better resolution with slightly better effect, and this window get even smaller at higher. 50% power advantage is more pronounced at 1.4 tf then at 4.2. the problem is at 6 tf and 12gb ram current gen streaming tech is the limiting factor. Making a highway broad will not make the existing car faster, so either develop a new fast car which will throw out Xbox one out of the loop or lean on to xbox one and cramp in multiple cars on the same highway.

And about the ryzen rumors pray that those are not true, I dont believe ryzen will be the cpu coz MS is not dumb enough to make a deal on a cpu which was not released, without knowing the real world performance and fab yield issues, even in Hypothetical Scenario for marketing terms MS does decide to go with low end Ryzen along with VEGA GPU u can certainly kiss even a $450 price tag good bye, which will be a sucide.



Seventizz said:
Turkish said:

 

The question you need to ask is how does Microsoft respond to that? Will Scorpio be a huge cannon but without any cannon balls?

That's a pretty niche list and reminds my why I'm not a playstation gamer.

Heh, pretty much this.

Not all of that is niche, but much of that doesn't appeal to the average console gamer. The average Xbox and PS user is playing multiplat stuff.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Seventizz said:
Turkish said:

 

The question you need to ask is how does Microsoft respond to that? Will Scorpio be a huge cannon but without any cannon balls?

That's a pretty niche list and reminds my why I'm not a playstation gamer.

Good thing playstation also has all the multiplats and the dudebro shootie bang pow pow exclusives for you like TLOU, Days Gone, God of War and Uncharted.

Reminds me how good it is to have so much choice in games.



Around the Network
Turkish said:
Seventizz said:

That's a pretty niche list and reminds my why I'm not a playstation gamer.

Good thing playstation also has all the multiplats and the dudebro shootie bang pow pow exclusives for you like TLOU, Days Gone, God of War and Uncharted.

Reminds me how good it is to have so much choice in games.

Exactly this. For consoles the system offers about everything. I play more niche stuff witch exceptions like Fighting games and I own Diablo III and Dragon Age on PS4 but overall a lot of smaller titles plus I got some off Limited Run Games. If into the bigger AAA or into the more Niche stuff PS4 has you covered. It appeals to both and a good reason it's so far ahead in sales. I mean what the west considers niche Japan considers bigger sellers sometimes.



Mr Puggsly said:
SegataSanshiro said:
Sony responds with lower price says how cute and has more games. I don't think they have anything to worry about for now. Switch is probably a bigger danger to PS4 than Scorpio.

With that logic maybe Sony shouldn't have released the PS4 Pro.

I'm just curious to see what Scorpio can do and if it has the best ports, great.

I think that is an interesting question. Why did they release the pro, perhaps with MS doing badly with XBO, perhaps its was a threat analysis. i.e what is MS likely to do, bring out a new more powerful console before 5 years, rather than wait it out for 5 years plus. People have asked why Sony made the pro and that it didnt use different arhitecture... well I think the answer is there. Making a more powerful Pro using mostly the same components as the PS4 is cheaper and will degrade in price as the PS4 does (as they are buying bulk components, rather than small amounts of new components for a brand new console). You build a brand new console the component prices will drop very slowly if you dont make many. The Pro might not be selling millions, but as it uses mostly the same PS4 components, its price will go down and more importantly will allow for aggressive price cuts if need be.

So perhaps they thought, we can bring out a Pro, its dev cost will be small and we can put MS on the back foot, knowing they'll bring out a more powerful console at higher cost (we announce first, get the press)...personally I think Sony have pulled a blinder. It's been made even more a better move that MS doesnt do 1st party that much when compared to Sony. All the talk this year is about Sony exclusives and Switch, MS are currently the 3rd console, not just in sales but also excitement and PR. They seemingly have nothing interesting to talk about. They need to do something otherwise whats the point of the Scorpio... ok it'll run 3rd party games well, but I dont think people will care when they could go to Pro and get a reasonably running game on cheaper hardware.



Making an indie game : Dead of Day!

Seventizz said:
Turkish said:

 

The question you need to ask is how does Microsoft respond to that? Will Scorpio be a huge cannon but without any cannon balls?

That's a pretty niche list and reminds my why I'm not a playstation gamer.

If every single one of the above games is too "niche" for you, I'm not sure what sort of gamer you are. 

Not hating, we all fit into one or another niche ourselves :)



SegataSanshiro said:
Turkish said:

Good thing playstation also has all the multiplats and the dudebro shootie bang pow pow exclusives for you like TLOU, Days Gone, God of War and Uncharted.

Reminds me how good it is to have so much choice in games.

Exactly this. For consoles the system offers about everything. I play more niche stuff witch exceptions like Fighting games and I own Diablo III and Dragon Age on PS4 but overall a lot of smaller titles plus I got some off Limited Run Games. If into the bigger AAA or into the more Niche stuff PS4 has you covered. It appeals to both and a good reason it's so far ahead in sales. I mean what the west considers niche Japan considers bigger sellers sometimes.

Yeah when you add in fans of countless niche genres to your install base, it adds up. And if big youtubers cover those games, suddenly they become hot, like Yakuza 0.



pokoko said:
It doesn't matter nearly as much.

That's because the baseline for third party games is still the vanilla PS4/XO. New releases still have to run on those boxes. Both manufacturers have made that clear. This isn't a situation where developers have to go backwards or spend time porting to a different architecture.
onionberry said:
the mass market doesn't care about that, that's why the ps4>ps4 pro

These two things.
Actually, even in the true land of power whores, PC, you look at online services stats and you find that the vast majority of gamers just use mid-range hardware, and there even is a share of people with old or entry-level PCs, possibly upgrading every now and then the parts become too weak, larger than the one with high-end HW.
About premium models power, first party games will use it more, but the games will still have to run on entry level models too, while third parties will use it a lot less, in most cases they'll just offer higher framerate and upscaled resolution, maybe in some cases producing additional sets of higher res textures produced in the cheapest possible way (for example upscaling and filtering them in development, using more computationally intensive filtering that even premium consoles couldn't do on-the-fly, rather than really producing native high-res ones, and surely not producing higher polygon count worlds and objects), while some games that typically appeal to graphics whores and have enough funds to do it, or that the developers of which stroke some deal with console producers to co-fund development in some ways, will offer a higher use of additional power when running on premium models, up to higher polygon count worlds and native high-res textures. Surely only highest budget games will offer this, and only if devs and publishers will be reasonably sure it will be worth it.
PS There actually is another group of games that could fully use that extra power: GPU-hugry games developed on PC first that have to be downscaled to run on entry-level consoles.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!