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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Boss Battles with Completely Different Gameplay.

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Hiku said:
The only one that comes to mind right now is Devil May Cry.
https://youtu.be/0jvwzkwmFn0?t=242

And I remember loving that it used a different game engine for the final boss fight. Along with the hype music, it made it all that much more memorable, I think.

 

Yep, first thing that came to mind for me. No other final boss curve balls come close.

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JakDaSnack said:
SvennoJ said:

There are better ways to handle being lost like taking the radar away as in the sandstorm, or reduce your visibility as in the ruins near the lost woods. Taking your ability to explore away by introducing invisible walls that reset your position is a drastic change from the rest of the game. The game doesn't let you learn how to safely traverse the woods, it simply turns it into trial and error gameplay.

The lost woods has always been a maze, where if you make the wrong turn you have to start over.  It's never been as smooth as botw though.

I have played OOT, Windwaker, TP and SS, the lost woods never stood out as not fitting in with the rest of the game design. The mechanic is nice and in the spirit of Zelda, yet after 160 hours of the wind never having been used like that it feels out of place. The torch mechanic is easily missed (at least 2 others here missed it) which could have been avoided if there were a few unlit lanterns around. (And apparently there is an npc with a clue in an inn somewhere, never met him)

The area also felt cramped which is probably why it needed corridors to make it more difficult. It would have been better situated at the edge of the map with no defined outer borders. Radar disabled as in a sand storm with the game actually letting you get lost and giving you time to figure out the clues. Use the torch to burn through barriers as in previous zelda games to give you a reason to carry one. Add difficult to spot bogs covered by fog to make it more dangerous when straying off the path. Add dangers in the trees to discourage Ravoli's launch or using big bonfires to fly over the forest. (Or thicker fog over the trees with wind lowing you off course as in other areas in the game) Yet never simply reset the player, that's a cop out.

Searching the desert in a sandstorm, the mazes, shrouded shrine quest, all handled it better than the lost woods. The game is still a 10 for me, lost woods just wasn't as awesome as the rest.



JakDaSnack said:
archer9234 said:

Didn't really care for the smoke aspect. I liked the way OOT did it, with music volume and tree tunnels. You can say it was cleaner. So that you didn't have a lot of stuff look out for.

It wasn't as smooth in OOT, you had to walk up to each tunnel to find out which way was correct.  With botw, *SPOILER* you held up a torch and followed the smoke.  

I didn't think to use a torch. That's why I did it blind. The music in the lost woods, acted like a sonar. So I thought that was the way you solve it. Follow the music. Run out of smoke, that attempts to eat you. It wasn't obious. The Ninja hideout entrance was easier to guess. Since you where forced to think: There has to be a secret passageway. I also tried cheating it with wind and stuff. Since the game does encourage you to do things out of sequence. I even attempted to use a thunderstorm. To cause a fire. By wearing metal stuff.

I litterly drew a top down map. And walked in every direction. Till I maped the path out. I really didn't want to use a walkthrough.



pokoko said:

I don't usually like it when they do that.  That's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of boss battles in general.  

A good example is the first boss battle in Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  I'm playing the game with my character centered around stealth, which appears to be a primary option.  Pretty much every situation, you can get through silently.  Then, boom, by the way, forget all that because you have to beat this boss character in a straight fire-fight.  Your character isn't built or equiped for that?  Too bad.  I was really, really pissed off about that.

On the other hand, you have Blood Dragon, which probably had the most beautiful and elegant ending for a video-game ever.

That right there is why I never finished that game.  I turned the game off after realizing I was woefully under-equipped and not ready for that kind of fight, despite the game insisting throughout that I could play to the style I wanted and be fine, and never went back to it.



SvennoJ said:
JakDaSnack said:

The lost woods has always been a maze, where if you make the wrong turn you have to start over.  It's never been as smooth as botw though.

I have played OOT, Windwaker, TP and SS, the lost woods never stood out as not fitting in with the rest of the game design. The mechanic is nice and in the spirit of Zelda, yet after 160 hours of the wind never having been used like that it feels out of place. The torch mechanic is easily missed (at least 2 others here missed it) which could have been avoided if there were a few unlit lanterns around. (And apparently there is an npc with a clue in an inn somewhere, never met him)

The area also felt cramped which is probably why it needed corridors to make it more difficult. It would have been better situated at the edge of the map with no defined outer borders. Radar disabled as in a sand storm with the game actually letting you get lost and giving you time to figure out the clues. Use the torch to burn through barriers as in previous zelda games to give you a reason to carry one. Add difficult to spot bogs covered by fog to make it more dangerous when straying off the path. Add dangers in the trees to discourage Ravoli's launch or using big bonfires to fly over the forest. (Or thicker fog over the trees with wind lowing you off course as in other areas in the game) Yet never simply reset the player, that's a cop out.

Searching the desert in a sandstorm, the mazes, shrouded shrine quest, all handled it better than the lost woods. The game is still a 10 for me, lost woods just wasn't as awesome as the rest.

Lol, I saw the torch on the ground and figured I had to light it.  Then noticed the wind and thought hey why don't I follow that and see what happens lol.  I personally loved it, my concerns with your suggestions is that it would then be similar to the shrine quests that are already in the game.  I personally like variety.   And to me, it fit with the rest of the game because it was simply a puzzle, and like you've seen in this thread there are multiple ways to solve it just like most of the other puzzles in the game.  So I don't see how you can say it didn't fit with the rest of the game design.



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JakDaSnack said:
SvennoJ said:

I have played OOT, Windwaker, TP and SS, the lost woods never stood out as not fitting in with the rest of the game design. The mechanic is nice and in the spirit of Zelda, yet after 160 hours of the wind never having been used like that it feels out of place. The torch mechanic is easily missed (at least 2 others here missed it) which could have been avoided if there were a few unlit lanterns around. (And apparently there is an npc with a clue in an inn somewhere, never met him)

The area also felt cramped which is probably why it needed corridors to make it more difficult. It would have been better situated at the edge of the map with no defined outer borders. Radar disabled as in a sand storm with the game actually letting you get lost and giving you time to figure out the clues. Use the torch to burn through barriers as in previous zelda games to give you a reason to carry one. Add difficult to spot bogs covered by fog to make it more dangerous when straying off the path. Add dangers in the trees to discourage Ravoli's launch or using big bonfires to fly over the forest. (Or thicker fog over the trees with wind lowing you off course as in other areas in the game) Yet never simply reset the player, that's a cop out.

Searching the desert in a sandstorm, the mazes, shrouded shrine quest, all handled it better than the lost woods. The game is still a 10 for me, lost woods just wasn't as awesome as the rest.

Lol, I saw the torch on the ground and figured I had to light it.  Then noticed the wind and thought hey why don't I follow that and see what happens lol.  I personally loved it, my concerns with your suggestions is that it would then be similar to the shrine quests that are already in the game.  I personally like variety.   And to me, it fit with the rest of the game because it was simply a puzzle, and like you've seen in this thread there are multiple ways to solve it just like most of the other puzzles in the game.  So I don't see how you can say it didn't fit with the rest of the game design.

It's basically: "I couldn't figure this out, so it's out of place."...



JakDaSnack said:
SvennoJ said:

I have played OOT, Windwaker, TP and SS, the lost woods never stood out as not fitting in with the rest of the game design. The mechanic is nice and in the spirit of Zelda, yet after 160 hours of the wind never having been used like that it feels out of place. The torch mechanic is easily missed (at least 2 others here missed it) which could have been avoided if there were a few unlit lanterns around. (And apparently there is an npc with a clue in an inn somewhere, never met him)

The area also felt cramped which is probably why it needed corridors to make it more difficult. It would have been better situated at the edge of the map with no defined outer borders. Radar disabled as in a sand storm with the game actually letting you get lost and giving you time to figure out the clues. Use the torch to burn through barriers as in previous zelda games to give you a reason to carry one. Add difficult to spot bogs covered by fog to make it more dangerous when straying off the path. Add dangers in the trees to discourage Ravoli's launch or using big bonfires to fly over the forest. (Or thicker fog over the trees with wind lowing you off course as in other areas in the game) Yet never simply reset the player, that's a cop out.

Searching the desert in a sandstorm, the mazes, shrouded shrine quest, all handled it better than the lost woods. The game is still a 10 for me, lost woods just wasn't as awesome as the rest.

Lol, I saw the torch on the ground and figured I had to light it.  Then noticed the wind and thought hey why don't I follow that and see what happens lol.  I personally loved it, my concerns with your suggestions is that it would then be similar to the shrine quests that are already in the game.  I personally like variety.   And to me, it fit with the rest of the game because it was simply a puzzle, and like you've seen in this thread there are multiple ways to solve it just like most of the other puzzles in the game.  So I don't see how you can say it didn't fit with the rest of the game design.

The torch mechanic is not the real problem, it's "cross this line, reset to start" which doesn't fit with the rest of the game. That's a weak cop out instead of implementing a maze puzzle in a satisfying way. Invisible / artificial barriers do not fit with the game design. The shrouded shrine quest area does allow you to fly into its area and then lets you figure out how to get out of it again. Lost woods can only be approached through a designated corridor with artificial barriers, doesn't fit.



SvennoJ said:
JakDaSnack said:

Lol, I saw the torch on the ground and figured I had to light it.  Then noticed the wind and thought hey why don't I follow that and see what happens lol.  I personally loved it, my concerns with your suggestions is that it would then be similar to the shrine quests that are already in the game.  I personally like variety.   And to me, it fit with the rest of the game because it was simply a puzzle, and like you've seen in this thread there are multiple ways to solve it just like most of the other puzzles in the game.  So I don't see how you can say it didn't fit with the rest of the game design.

The torch mechanic is not the real problem, it's "cross this line, reset to start" which doesn't fit with the rest of the game. That's a weak cop out instead of implementing a maze puzzle in a satisfying way. Invisible / artificial barriers do not fit with the game design. The shrouded shrine quest area does allow you to fly into its area and then lets you figure out how to get out of it again. Lost woods can only be approached through a designated corridor with artificial barriers, doesn't fit.

The yigi hideout or whatever it's called had the same reset mechanic, also the korok quest where u followed the korok had the reset mechanic. I'm maybe 60% through all the quests and shrines so there are probably others.  But it sounds like what you are looking for is already in the game.  It honestly sounds like you don't like it because you got frustrated.  I mean it took me like 5 tries to get past the banana guards, I was very upset with game, but after finishing that quest line, I can honestly say it was very rewarding and fun.  And I'm glad they added that challenge.   



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d21lewis said:
When I did the lost woods, I just walked slowly. Whenever I heard laughter and the fog rolled in, I just ran backwards. The laughter stopped and the fog went away. Then, I tried another way. Got through in no time.

Same here. I only got reset twice until i figured it out and the rest was easy. I didn't even know there were clues like the others are saying lol.



JakDaSnack said:
SvennoJ said:

The torch mechanic is not the real problem, it's "cross this line, reset to start" which doesn't fit with the rest of the game. That's a weak cop out instead of implementing a maze puzzle in a satisfying way. Invisible / artificial barriers do not fit with the game design. The shrouded shrine quest area does allow you to fly into its area and then lets you figure out how to get out of it again. Lost woods can only be approached through a designated corridor with artificial barriers, doesn't fit.

The yigi hideout or whatever it's called had the same reset mechanic, also the korok quest where u followed the korok had the reset mechanic. I'm maybe 60% through all the quests and shrines so there are probably others.  But it sounds like what you are looking for is already in the game.  It honestly sounds like you don't like it because you got frustrated.  I mean it took me like 5 tries to get past the banana guards, I was very upset with game, but after finishing that quest line, I can honestly say it was very rewarding and fun.  And I'm glad they added that challenge.   

I didn't like it in the Yiga hideout either, that was my previous 'low' point of the game. It took me plenty tries too, never felt right afterwards. I recently helped my kids through that part, still feels out of place. And I ran by that Korok and finished the shrine before he ever got near. That's it though for the entire game. I guess you can add the divine beasts that don't simply let you come and go, then become entirely off limits with the reset mechanic. I want to climb that :)