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Forums - Gaming - Naughty Dog dev explains what might've happened with Mass Effect Andromeda’s face animations

Johnw1104 said:

My lord, reading these posts... Bioware certainly wasn't "lazy"or rushing some half-assed product to us; rather, they were too ambitious and were guilty of poor planning/time management. Everyone is capable of it.

Bioware gives us gold time after time and following a rare less-than-stellar outing people are acting as if they've been personally wronged by these guys. Get over yourselves; if the problems are too glaring for you, don't get it.

Personally, I'm just going to wait until it's received a few patches, at which point it will likely be pretty darn good.

*Edit*: Just to be clear, I'm not speaking about everyone in this thread or suggesting it's unfair to criticize a game's faults. It's those who are acting as if Bioware has done a disservice to the industry, cheated the community, and are taking it personally that frustrate me. No game that's in development for that long with that much money and that many excellent designers is a "lazy" effort, and that word is really ticking me off as I keep seeing it pop up.

What concerns me is that this is the second time I can remember something like this happening with BioWare.

First, to be honest, I haven't played Andromeda, so I don't know how bad this is (or isn't).  However, I think back to Dragon Age 2, which was another big release that suffered from bad decisions.  I'm not talking about subjective factors like story or characters, I'm talking about the decision to reuse dungeons over and over instead of spending the time (or budget) to create new ones, which very obviously would have made the game better.  There is really no debating that and it was plain as day for anyone, much less experience developers, to see.  There were so many good things about that game that such a cheap-out move was really a shame.

It makes me wonder if someone at the top is putting other factors above quality or if there isn't some other failure in the chain of command.



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Sounds like a case of putting too much on their plate with not enough time, resulting in a less polished product. It sounds like this game needed some delays for more polish.



 

              

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Johnw1104 said:

My lord, reading these posts... Bioware certainly wasn't "lazy"or rushing some half-assed product to us; rather, they were too ambitious and were guilty of poor planning/time management. Everyone is capable of it.

Bioware gives us gold time after time and following a rare less-than-stellar outing people are acting as if they've been personally wronged by these guys. Get over yourselves; if the problems are too glaring for you, don't get it.

Personally, I'm just going to wait until it's received a few patches, at which point it will likely be pretty darn good.

*Edit*: Just to be clear, I'm not speaking about everyone in this thread or suggesting it's unfair to criticize a game's faults. It's those who are acting as if Bioware has done a disservice to the industry, cheated the community, and are taking it personally that frustrate me. No game that's in development for that long with that much money and that many excellent designers is a "lazy" effort, and that word is really ticking me off as I keep seeing it pop up.

Just keep in mind that their parent company, you know, under whose leadership many directors and lead designers left, is the same that literally released the same game two years in a row with a reskin, for 60$



Random_Matt said:
"It’s simply a quantity vs quality tradeoff"
What a cop out, rather have both.
Unfortunately, Bioware fails on both.

Very few games have both.  What are you even saying?



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



theprof00 said:
spemanig said:

...Did you not read what was said? A cop out? You can't have both. It's infeasable right now. They tried do to both, and after 5 years they literally couldn't do it because it was too much work. That's literally why this happened. No game has ever had the quality of facial animations in Uncharted with the quantity of voice found in Andromeda. I guess literally every game ever made is copping out, because they all fail at doing this.

It's infeasable according to what metric?

It feels like you're saying the devs had to make a choice, and that the "fault" for the facial animation quality results from overreaching vision that couldn't sync up with realistic goals.

...That's exactly what I'm saying. It's infeasable by the metric of rational possibility. They are restricted by time, budget, and man power. They thought they had enough of each to have their cake and eat it too with this. They didn't. The face animations are the result. 



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Its alot easier to make a linear good looking game than it is to make an openworld game. Also if you give a company unlimited time and budget than of course your going to get quality with qauntity. Look at Star Citizen with a budget of $140m+. I dont consider Cloud Emporium Games the best devs however with a budget like theres and time frame you will get both on release.



Random_Matt said:
Probably EA wanting it out on the shop floor pronto. That's the trouble when you don't publish yourself.

They officially delayed the game once, it was supposed to launch in 2016, and who knows how many more times they pushed the launch further back but we don't know it because they hadn't given a date yet to the public.

After all, the game was first teased all the way back at E3 in 2014.

GameAnalyser said:
JEMC said:

Well, they lowered it because, in his opinion, they would fix it later by hand. What we should ask is why they didn't do it (did they ran out of time or was it because of budget reasons?), and if there is a way to fix it once the game has been launched.

In any case, like he mentions at the end, this will only serve to increase the quality of animations from now on.

The budget was 40 million..I just don't know where all the money went. This is one of those AAA games I'm definitely skipping since The Division.

We don't know how much of that budget (by the way, where did you get that figure from?) went into development and how much into marketing. And the game has been in development for more than 3 years by a team made of hundred of members.

We don't know if they ended with budget problems or not.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

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JEMC said:
jason1637 said:
So in Mass Effect 1-3 they had defaulted lip sync and facial animations based on the dialogue and in Andromeda the quality of this dialogue to default lip sync and facial animations were lowered? Interesting.

Well, they lowered it because, in his opinion, they would fix it later by hand. What we should ask is why they didn't do it (did they ran out of time or was it because of budget reasons?), and if there is a way to fix it once the game has been launched.

In any case, like he mentions at the end, this will only serve to increase the quality of animations from now on.

The problem is the 5 years between the preproduction and the release. A decision was taken 5 years ago, the early devlopment implemented the algorithm, then they started to implement the facial animation before realising they would never have enough time to finish them and they couldn't go back without tremendously delaying the final game for a single element that went wrong.



RenCutypoison said:
JEMC said:

Well, they lowered it because, in his opinion, they would fix it later by hand. What we should ask is why they didn't do it (did they ran out of time or was it because of budget reasons?), and if there is a way to fix it once the game has been launched.

In any case, like he mentions at the end, this will only serve to increase the quality of animations from now on.

The problem is the 5 years between the preproduction and the release. A decision was taken 5 years ago, the early devlopment implemented the algorithm, then they started to implement the facial animation before realising they would never have enough time to finish them and they couldn't go back without tremendously delaying the final game for a single element that went wrong.

So they didn't realize the amount of work it would need and where caught with thei pants down. Gotcha!

Now it's only a matter of can it be fixed with patches?



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
RenCutypoison said:

The problem is the 5 years between the preproduction and the release. A decision was taken 5 years ago, the early devlopment implemented the algorithm, then they started to implement the facial animation before realising they would never have enough time to finish them and they couldn't go back without tremendously delaying the final game for a single element that went wrong.

So they didn't realize the amount of work it would need and where caught with thei pants down. Gotcha!

Now it's only a matter of can it be fixed with patches?

Obviously not. The facial animation, for as much as I know (not much, I'm no animator) should have been a team's work for a big part of the devlopment cycle. It's not a buggy algorithm you can quick fix trough spaghetti coding, it's a long and tedious job. That would require a big investment for a single visual job. Even Nintendo level remasters don't redo facial animations years later (i.e. FFX HD is one hell of a remaster, every model including monsters were remade instead of just the textures, so the old facial animations look off on the new character models).