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Forums - Gaming - VGC Weapon Durability MEGA Thread

Mnementh said:
vivster said:

As I heard you can do this already with the Shield. Better game design would be to have restrictions what weapons can be equipped, like the yalready do with the mastersword. It worked just fine in all other Zelda games with a host of different tools to use and the stronger swords and armor behind dungeons or quests. Making the weapons breakable was an unwanted fix they implemented to mitigate an unwanted enemy design.

Justifying terrible game design as mitigations to other terrible game design decisions doesn't really work that well.

Everything I'm reading are just tries to somehow find reason in the changes that were made instead of asking why those changes were necessary in the first place.

Because nobody ever complained about gear that can't be used, because 'Your level is not high enough'. LOL.

Like the Master Sword in Breath of the Wild? Because I've literally not heard anyone complain about that.



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potato_hamster said:
Mnementh said:

Because nobody ever complained about gear that can't be used, because 'Your level is not high enough'. LOL.

Like the Master Sword in Breath of the Wild? Because I've literally not heard anyone complain about that.

The unlock method was dumb, imo. They should have had it be just those three shrines there had to be done. That is what it felt like. They talk about doing these trials as a way to prove yourself and then you coudl pull it out. Yet they don't do that, they just give you more orbs to purchase hearts.

I mean it's not like the master sword breaks teh game or anything. Either have it tied to those 3 trials, or tied to completing ALL the shrines. The requirement right now is just odd.



Mnementh said:
Darashiva said:
The main thing that baffles me here is why is it so hard the accept the fact that some people simply don't find the weapon durability in Breath of the Wild, or any other game for that matter, to be fun? The endless argument over the system's merits is pointless, when it ultimately comes down to everyone's personal enjoyment of a game and the system's found within.

What people like about games varies wildly from person to person, and just because one person likes the weapon durability system, or the stamina system, or whatever else, doesn't mean that everyone is going to. It also makes neither opinion any less valid.

Yes, exactly. I can live with the weapon durability in BotW, it does not annoy me but I also think it does not make the game better. Some think it makes the game better, some think it makes it worse. I can see all these opinions. But why do I have to defend my opinion? Why at all? Why people claim it is bad game design if they don't like it, then others do like it or don't mind? I'm completely fine that other people have different opinions, but they have to accept it is an opinion and my opinion is worth as much as theirs.

By the way, while I don't think the weapon durability adds anything I think the stamina bar is a very good addition. But I also like other games with stamina bars like Monster Hunter and Souls, so I'm probably some sort of freak.

The stamina bar is probably just another element that just depends on how it's implemented. I agree that in Dark Souls for example it works very well, as it fits into the gameplay style perfectly. Dark Souls in general is one of my favourite game series anyway. 



irstupid said:
potato_hamster said:

Like the Master Sword in Breath of the Wild? Because I've literally not heard anyone complain about that.

The unlock method was dumb, imo. They should have had it be just those three shrines there had to be done. That is what it felt like. They talk about doing these trials as a way to prove yourself and then you coudl pull it out. Yet they don't do that, they just give you more orbs to purchase hearts.

I mean it's not like the master sword breaks teh game or anything. Either have it tied to those 3 trials, or tied to completing ALL the shrines. The requirement right now is just odd.

What? A weapon that can't be broken doesn't break the balance of the game! What a shocking revelation!



potato_hamster said:
irstupid said:

The unlock method was dumb, imo. They should have had it be just those three shrines there had to be done. That is what it felt like. They talk about doing these trials as a way to prove yourself and then you coudl pull it out. Yet they don't do that, they just give you more orbs to purchase hearts.

I mean it's not like the master sword breaks teh game or anything. Either have it tied to those 3 trials, or tied to completing ALL the shrines. The requirement right now is just odd.

What? A weapon that can't be broken doesn't break the balance of the game! What a shocking revelation!

The reason I'm saying it doesn't break the game is because outside of a couple areas it is basically unusable.

If it didn't degrade and was 100% unbreakable the whole time, i woudl break the game imo.

Do you ahve the master sword? Have you used it in the areas it is made for? Now imagine that throughout the whole game world. All fun would be gone.



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irstupid said:
potato_hamster said:

What? A weapon that can't be broken doesn't break the balance of the game! What a shocking revelation!

The reason I'm saying it doesn't break the game is because outside of a couple areas it is basically unusable.

If it didn't degrade and was 100% unbreakable the whole time, i woudl break the game imo.

Do you ahve the master sword? Have you used it in the areas it is made for? Now imagine that throughout the whole game world. All fun would be gone.

Yeah. Using weapons the game gives me through out the entire game is no fun at all. It's far more fun for the game to arbitrarily take them away from me or prevent me from using them because reasons. I love it when open world games force me to play the game in specific ways.



potato_hamster said:
irstupid said:

The reason I'm saying it doesn't break the game is because outside of a couple areas it is basically unusable.

If it didn't degrade and was 100% unbreakable the whole time, i woudl break the game imo.

Do you ahve the master sword? Have you used it in the areas it is made for? Now imagine that throughout the whole game world. All fun would be gone.

Yeah. Using weapons the game gives me through out the entire game is no fun at all. It's far more fun for the game to arbitrarily take them away from me or prevent me from using them because reasons. I love it when open world games force me to play the game in specific ways.

I'm confused, doesn't every open world game force you to play specific ways?  I mean I can't use rocket launchers in skyrim, or nuke em from orbit in gta 5.  Every game has balance to keep you progressing, same goes for Zelda.  There are probably ways they could have implemented the durability mechanic better(maybe allow you to purchase the weapons at a shop).  But I think the way they did it works great, and I'm excited to see what ways they improve the next Zelda.  



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JakDaSnack said:
potato_hamster said:

Yeah. Using weapons the game gives me through out the entire game is no fun at all. It's far more fun for the game to arbitrarily take them away from me or prevent me from using them because reasons. I love it when open world games force me to play the game in specific ways.

I'm confused, doesn't every open world game force you to play specific ways?  I mean I can't use rocket launchers in skyrim, or nuke em from orbit in gta 5.  Every game has balance to keep you progressing, same goes for Zelda.  There are probably ways they could have implemented the durability mechanic better(maybe allow you to purchase the weapons at a shop).  But I think the way they did it works great, and I'm excited to see what ways they improve the next Zelda.  

If Skyrim gave me a rocket launcher but never gave you the ability to reload it,  and the only way to get more ammo was to find another rocket launcher which was really hard to come by, you'd probably wonder what the point of the rocket launcher was in the first place if you could only get off one or two shots before it was totally useless. Since, you know, guns with an inability to reload don't tend to go over too well, and are typically seen as a poor gameplay mechanic.

Again, my problem isn't so much that Zelda has a durability mechanic, my problem is that Zelda's implementation of that mechanic (which to me is only tolerable and never fun in a best case scenario) is just implemented very poor to a point where it forces you to constantly change and dispose of weapons because you have no other choice. There are plenty of ways to implement weapon durability that both forces the player to use a variety of weapons and allows the player to use the weapons they like to use the most. Zelda forces you to pretty much use whatever is around the area and deal with what the game gives you, and I find that annoying.



potato_hamster said:
JakDaSnack said:

I'm confused, doesn't every open world game force you to play specific ways?  I mean I can't use rocket launchers in skyrim, or nuke em from orbit in gta 5.  Every game has balance to keep you progressing, same goes for Zelda.  There are probably ways they could have implemented the durability mechanic better(maybe allow you to purchase the weapons at a shop).  But I think the way they did it works great, and I'm excited to see what ways they improve the next Zelda.  

If Skyrim gave me a rocket launcher but never gave you the ability to reload it,  and the only way to get more ammo was to find another rocket launcher which was really hard to come by, you'd probably wonder what the point of the rocket launcher was in the first place if you could only get off one or two shots before it was totally useless. Since, you know, guns with an inability to reload don't tend to go over too well, and are typically seen as a poor gameplay mechanic.

Again, my problem isn't so much that Zelda has a durability mechanic, my problem is that Zelda's implementation of that mechanic (which to me is only tolerable and never fun in a best case scenario) is just implemented very poor to a point where it forces you to constantly change and dispose of weapons because you have no other choice. There are plenty of ways to implement weapon durability that both forces the player to use a variety of weapons and allows the player to use the weapons they like to use the most. Zelda forces you to pretty much use whatever is around the area and deal with what the game gives you, and I find that annoying.

Idk, I just don't agree with your conclusion.  I'm constantly finding new and better weapons.  And with every obstacle I'm given a dozen or so ways of over coming said obstacle.  I think it has to do with gameplay style.  If you give the player ways to permanently hold on to weapons, then you have to restrict what weapons the user can find early on.  That takes away freedom.  By treating the weapons like ammo, you can reward a players hard earned effort with a powerful weapon that doesn't ultimately break the game.  This gives the player more options early on, and more options is always better than less options imho.



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JakDaSnack said:
potato_hamster said:

If Skyrim gave me a rocket launcher but never gave you the ability to reload it,  and the only way to get more ammo was to find another rocket launcher which was really hard to come by, you'd probably wonder what the point of the rocket launcher was in the first place if you could only get off one or two shots before it was totally useless. Since, you know, guns with an inability to reload don't tend to go over too well, and are typically seen as a poor gameplay mechanic.

Again, my problem isn't so much that Zelda has a durability mechanic, my problem is that Zelda's implementation of that mechanic (which to me is only tolerable and never fun in a best case scenario) is just implemented very poor to a point where it forces you to constantly change and dispose of weapons because you have no other choice. There are plenty of ways to implement weapon durability that both forces the player to use a variety of weapons and allows the player to use the weapons they like to use the most. Zelda forces you to pretty much use whatever is around the area and deal with what the game gives you, and I find that annoying.

Idk, I just don't agree with your conclusion.  I'm constantly finding new and better weapons.  And with every obstacle I'm given a dozen or so ways of over coming said obstacle.  I think it has to do with gameplay style.  If you give the player ways to permanently hold on to weapons, then you have to restrict what weapons the user can find early on.  That takes away freedom.  By treating the weapons like ammo, you can reward a players hard earned effort with a powerful weapon that doesn't ultimately break the game.  This gives the player more options early on, and more options is always better than less options imho.

Nonsense. They're not treating weapons like ammo if you can't reload! Besides, all you have to do is implement a way to limit the use of the weapon that isn't permanent and is upgradable over the game. Hundreds of games do this in different ways. This isn't a dichotomy, there are plenty of better solutions that don't restrict play style preference.