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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Jim Sterling’s site under attack after Zelda: BotW review

 

Pavolink said:
areason said:

You can't drop the stamine and weapon degredation systems critique just because of the humour that he tied to them. He clearly explains how they took away from his experience and how they add a negative diffculty layer which forces the player to complete more shrines. 

To add what i was saying he critiques the difficulty of the combat, the "ubisoft" towers, some weather elements, and that he found the shrine element to be a grind. 

You're acting like a butthurt child, just because you disgaree doesn't mean he is wrong. 

I agree with some of his points regarding the degredation system and the combat, people forget that personal taste is part of reviews, and all the ass kissing BOTW has gotten since launch makes people forget that. 

First, nobody is kissing BotW ass. Weapons are all over Hyrule. If there's a problem is space to save those. Secondly, zero stamina problems. You can climb Twin Peaks with the initial stamina ring. And that is one of the highest peaks in the game. No need to upgrade to explore Hyrule. Again, there's already a succesful speedrun.

 

Third, there's nothing difficult in combat. You can kill guardians parrying the laser with pot shields. Lynels are hard but flurry rush make it easier. Add in there buffs from cocking and even less problems.

 

About Ubisoft Towers, hopefully he is consisten that every game with a tower is a Ubisoft game. Lastly the weather system, especially rain, can be a problem for climbing and I agree.

 

Before you call me a butthurt child, you should try to ask in the first place what is my opinion in the game, because is nowhere to be my best Zelda game.

To re-itterate.

And if your stamina can't get you somewhere, there is another, possbily a half dozen other ways to get there. As someoen said above, they climbed a waterfall with the ice skill. You could also climb the cliff next to the waterfall, or you coudl use the armor that lets you surf up teh water fall in seconds. Or how about putting the octoballoons on a boulder and floating up the cliff. Ect. There are a dozen ways to do anything you want. 

Yea, kill the toughest things in the game with a lvl 1 shield. The weakest shield in teh entire game.

I don' get the weather complaint. We as gamers are now complaining about rain in a game making things act like rain? You know being able to shield surf super fast in rain weahter, or not being able to climb? I guess realism is just bad now huh. Bring on the bird poop ledges that I am telegraphed climibing I guess. But if it starts raining, I just change what I'm doing. As I said before, there are a dozen ways to do something. If it starts raining, do the other methods, or else move on to something else and come back. Find a little shelter, drop some wood, start it on fire and rest for half a day so rain is gone. Then start climbing.



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irstupid said:

 

Pavolink said:

First, nobody is kissing BotW ass. Weapons are all over Hyrule. If there's a problem is space to save those. Secondly, zero stamina problems. You can climb Twin Peaks with the initial stamina ring. And that is one of the highest peaks in the game. No need to upgrade to explore Hyrule. Again, there's already a succesful speedrun.

 

Third, there's nothing difficult in combat. You can kill guardians parrying the laser with pot shields. Lynels are hard but flurry rush make it easier. Add in there buffs from cocking and even less problems.

 

About Ubisoft Towers, hopefully he is consisten that every game with a tower is a Ubisoft game. Lastly the weather system, especially rain, can be a problem for climbing and I agree.

 

Before you call me a butthurt child, you should try to ask in the first place what is my opinion in the game, because is nowhere to be my best Zelda game.

To re-itterate.

And if your stamina can't get you somewhere, there is another, possbily a half dozen other ways to get there. As someoen said above, they climbed a waterfall with the ice skill. You could also climb the cliff next to the waterfall, or you coudl use the armor that lets you surf up teh water fall in seconds. Or how about putting the octoballoons on a boulder and floating up the cliff. Ect. There are a dozen ways to do anything you want. 

Yea, kill the toughest things in the game with a lvl 1 shield. The weakest shield in teh entire game.

I don' get the weather complaint. We as gamers are now complaining about rain in a game making things act like rain? You know being able to shield surf super fast in rain weahter, or not being able to climb? I guess realism is just bad now huh. Bring on the bird poop ledges that I am telegraphed climibing I guess. But if it starts raining, I just change what I'm doing. As I said before, there are a dozen ways to do something. If it starts raining, do the other methods, or else move on to something else and come back. Find a little shelter, drop some wood, start it on fire and rest for half a day so rain is gone. Then start climbing.

There's a point, with realism. Where it's wrong to use, in a video game. Raining is hampering your progress. And is forcing a backtrack. Just like how the horse AI can route the horse out of range, of your call. Or when the horse can't go down a stupid small edge, for no reason. As for abilites being able to get around issues. Do they come earily enough, in the game. To be usefull. Or when you have tons of warp points. Allowing you to bypass them. If it the latter. They aren't useful.



sc94597 said:
potato_hamster said:

So the review came out on the 12th. That means he probably had about 3 days to complete the game (half day 9th, full 10th, 11th, half day 12th, assuming he's writing while he plays). Apparently the average completion time is around 30-35 hours (https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=38019). So if he already had 5 hours into it before the 9th (let's say), and put another 25 in over that 3 days, then would he have "rushed through the game" if he beat it in the average amount of time he take to complete the game?

To quote Jim's review:
" Enemy encounters that suck up your resources, cluttered menus that are a hassle to get through, the same old fucking cutscenes every time you open, enter, and complete shrines. Frequent interruptions when monsters respawn during a “blood moon” – the modern equivalent of Castlevania II‘s notorious “curse” text box."

I'm sorry, where does he say that the cut scene is unskippable during a blood moon? Are you sure that he got this wrong, or that you just never read it right?

The howlongtobeat isn't yet accurate. Only 81 people were polled. It took me 70 hours to beat the game, and I only have 20% of the content of the game completed after beating it. But in comparison, do you think a review in which all one does is Skyrim's main quest (https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=9859) is accurate? 

In Castlevania II you can't instantly skip the text box. You have to wait for it to finish scrolling, and it happens much more often than the blood moon (every ten minutes rather than every few hours.) The blood moon also serves a proper function (upgrades the strength of all enemies in camps.)  The comparison is flawed, and he is either being intentionally disingenous here or doesn't know anything about it. I am trying to pretend he is not disingenous and is truly ignorant about how the blood moon works. 

Another example is how he tries to chalk up difficulty to enemies being able to one-shot you and not being actually difficult. In every open-world Role Playing game there are enemies that can one-hit kill you in the beginning. BotW is no different. Very early in the game you have access to revivals though, and can be revived as many times as you have fairies and a certain skill from a dungeon. He might have missed this if he rushed through the game, but it is there. Difficulty is instead focused on parrying, dodging, countering telegraphed attacks and enacting a fury rush. The better you are at this the easier it is to kill enemies. This has nothing to do with being oneshotted, although if you rush through the game you can miss this feature. 

Here is a reddit post that summarizes all that is wrong with his review. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/5yzcw5/the_jimquisition_breath_of_the_wild_review_open/

"My two cents, I'm still waiting for a truly great critical review. I like Jim's writing style but the content here is below his usual standard. tl;dr he makes factual mistakes and ignores some genuinely questionable decisions to focus on nitpicks and reaching arguments.

One thing that needs saying, it's fine for Jim to harp on his problems with BotW even if the score is a respectable 7. With dozens of perfect score reviews available Jim doesn't really need to repeat common praise. What matters is whether his criticisms are fair and substantiated.

Factual inaccuracies always damage a review's credibility. Visited but unfinished shrines are marked as such on your map, as others have mentioned. Shrine and blood moon cutscenes can be skipped. Jim shouldn't have wasted time complaining about such non-problems, and framing your critical opinion in relation to "raving 10/10 reviews" just invites speculation about contrarianism.

There's plenty of reaching for things to dislike. The short paragraph about shrines especially annoys me because the criticisms are not only unnecessary (Jim has more substantial issues with the game) but just wrong.

  1. Shrines break immersion? Unlike most Zelda dungeons, they were designed by an intelligence for a specific purpose. Puzzles designed by sheikahs to test Link fit with the game world, whereas block/switch puzzles in a fish's belly or convenient key/door placement in enemy territory is harder to justify narratively. This small nitpick actually bothered me in previous Zeldas so it's disappointing to see Jim inconsistently criticize BotW for a positive change.

  2. Shrines break flow? On the contrary they are part of the flow. BotW, from its opening moments, establishes a routine of exploration, scavenging, discovery, and puzzle solving. If Jim doesn't like the game's structure he should have said as much instead of criticizing shrines for supposedly breaking flow, when they are a core part of it.

  3. Shrines feel like a shoehorned substitute for traditional dungeons? They are totally distinct entities with different goals. Traditional Zelda dungeons are long, labyrinthine, enemy intensive, and typically involve puzzles centered around a dungeon item. Shrines are concise, straightforward, enemy light, and surprising and innovative in puzzle design. Beasts are a closer emulation of traditional dungeons but focus more on spatial reasoning than combat and puzzles.

BotW combat is more similar to the Souls games than Jim acknowledges. Enemies are reasonably durable and very strong, but attacks are telegraphed and success in battle relies on both creativity and systems mastery. I'm sure he knows better than to put "difficulty" in quote marks so I'm not sure why he did anyway. Again it feels like reaching.

His section on stamina makes no mention of stamina extending/restoring foods, odd since Jim praised the utility of life-expanding meals. (/u/ggtsu_00 points out I missed Jim's mention of elixers. I do think Jim should have emphasized this option more because it alleviates many of his concerns, like climbing during rain or having extra stamina for travel.) He also seems not to try and understand why the system exists. If Link could run without limit or started with three stamina circles, travel would be very one-dimensional. The stamina system gives rhythm to standard travel, adds decision making and even some strategy to climbs and swims, and provides incentive for locating stables and horses. And you actually can climb in the rain, it just requires leap timing and stamina food for longer climbs. I expect good reviews to demonstrate thoughtful consideration of mechanics before criticizing them.

Performance issues are fair game of course, but Jim is the first critic I've seen to complain about draw distance specifically for the purpose of scouting out enemies. Also the first I've seen to claim enemies pop in and out of the playing field. In my playthrough the sheikah slate had fantastic range and enemy locations were stable. I'm curious whether and where others experienced these problems.

Durability gets a lot of attention and that's fine, it's a divisive topic and Jim recognizes there's another side of the argument. I also really like his amiibo hate, while not quite a problem with the game itself the whole practice is anti-consumer moneygrubbing dressed up as a line of toys.

But there are more topics critics should be covering. Is food overpowered? Are fairies too easy to farm? Are flurries and parries appropriate rewards for systems mastery or are they imbalanced given how straightforward combat becomes once mastered? Does the unusual difficulty curve work for or against the game and its pacing? Does the dark story premise mesh with the frequently lighthearted tone?

Now I personally would defend BotW here, but I would respect a critical examination that focused on these elements as they're the most questionable design aspects. But they're not usually a topic of conversation and instead detractors focus on nitpicks or non-issues. BotW is in my top five and will probably stay there, but I'm actually hoping a respected Youtube game critic makes a good negative review so we can push the debate forward."

Howlongtobeat isn't accurate because the way YOU played it and YOUR expereince differs from others.  Of course. That's all it takes. I guess Metal Gear Solid V takes 120 hours to beat because that's how long I sunk into the game before finishing the final mission, right? Give me a fucking break.  It's not like I was taking the time of the speedrunner that beat the game in less than an hour. These are people self reporting their completion times, and I have no reason to expect that to be inaccurate. Besides, if you expect reviewers to get anywhere near even 80% completion of a game before posting a review, then I can guarantee there might be a handful of Breath of the Wild reviews that might meet your criteria, if any at all.

This entire post (both your opinion, and the redditor opinion you quoted can be summed up as "I have a different opinion than Jim, therefore Jim is factually inaccurate". The closest thing to a factual inaccuracy that anyone can appear to bring up is where Jim says:

"Yes, every shrine is technically optional in the same way not rocking up to Ganon’s front door and assaulting his forces with a tree branch is – you can do whatever you like, but if you want to have a solid chance of actually succeeding, there is a proper, preconstructed way of doing things, and the proper way of handling shrines is to complete them on sight lest lose track of them – finish as many of them as possible, as close to all 120 of the bloody things as you can."

The bolded can easily be interpreted as "easily forgotten", yet because they appear on your map after discovering them, are in fact "trackable" in a sense.

But apparently this is enough for some people to claim that Jim's review is "full of factual inaccuracies". Because you can interpret one sentence in a way that might be incorrect This is laughable.



archer9234 said:

Let me pose a question about the cut scenes. Even with them skip-able. If an action is being repeated, over and over again. The blood moon, and the Shrine entry intros etc. Shouldn't the game just stop doing the cut scenes, in the first place. The majority of people will just skip them. After a few viewings. Making the skip option moot. The animation should not happen any more. It should be relegated to the playback archive. That's where I'm coming from.

I'm happy that everything is basically skip-able. But, I'd rather is be fully disable-able. Like Pokemon's battle animation.

As for the durabilty system. If it matched Minecraft's. I wouldn't complain. Since it doesn't, it's crappy.

The bloodmoon is rare enough (every few 3 hours, perhaps?) and short enough (20 seconds, if you don't skip) that it really shouldn't impact the experience in a significant manner.

 

 

what concerns durability: the goal of a short durability likely was, primarily, an attempt to keep the game balanced while still allowing players to tackle any quest in the order you like - a short durability forces you to use the tools in tge area, which makes sense, from a design perspective.



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areason said:
Pavolink said:

First, nobody is kissing BotW ass. Weapons are all over Hyrule. If there's a problem is space to save those. Secondly, zero stamina problems. You can climb Twin Peaks with the initial stamina ring. No need to upgrade to reach explore Hyrule. And that is one of the highest peaks in the game. Again, there's already a succesful speedrun.

His critique was that unlike other rpgs, once you get the cool loot you get to keep it, instead of it breaking,  that is still a valid point.

This isn't criticism. Not even a valid one. This is to personal preference. Making the cool loot break is concistent with the rest of the game. He didn't like it? To bad. Other one like it. Does that mean it is good or bad? No, just a system choosen by devs.

 

Third, there's nothing difficult in combat. You can kill guardians parrying the laser with pot shields. Lynels are hard but flurry rush make it easier. Add in there buffs from cocking and even less problems.

His criqute regarding the difficulty has to do with the amount of damage enemies do, which forces you to get more health, instead of just being better.

Again. Buffs, parry and flurry rush. Zero needs of more hearts. You can even have yellow hearts.

 

About Ubisoft Towers, hopefully he is consisten that every game with a tower is a Ubisoft game. Lastly the weather system, especially rain, can be a problem for climbing and I agree.

You can disagree with his critiques, but he isn't plain out wrong, everyone has their own niches.

Ok.

 

Before you call me a butthurt child, you should try to ask in the first place what is my opinion in the game, because is nowhere need to be my best Zelda game.

It doesn't matter if it's you're favourite or wrong, you dismissed his claims because of the style of his review, and outright called his other points wrong without even knowing them, that is childish.

It matters because you were implying that I was defending the game. I'm not. I'm just pointing how bad is his review. Score does not matter. Content do.

Overall i think his score in conjecture with his points is overblown, but it doesn't make his criticism false.

In bold.



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Not being able to re-read the review after the morning when i posted this, makes me :/

And ofc i still cannot comprehend this action. It's a freaking 7! A SEVEN in a game that is 97% ...........
Forza horizon3 now 91% got a freaking 4/10!!!!

Why zelda fans ....why :(



palou said:
archer9234 said:

Let me pose a question about the cut scenes. Even with them skip-able. If an action is being repeated, over and over again. The blood moon, and the Shrine entry intros etc. Shouldn't the game just stop doing the cut scenes, in the first place. The majority of people will just skip them. After a few viewings. Making the skip option moot. The animation should not happen any more. It should be relegated to the playback archive. That's where I'm coming from.

I'm happy that everything is basically skip-able. But, I'd rather is be fully disable-able. Like Pokemon's battle animation.

As for the durabilty system. If it matched Minecraft's. I wouldn't complain. Since it doesn't, it's crappy.

The bloodmoon is rare enough (every few 3 hours, perhaps?) and short enough (20 seconds, if you don't skip) that it really shouldn't impact the experience in a significant manner.

 

 

what concerns durability: the goal of a short durability likely was, primarily, an attempt to keep the game balanced while still allowing players to tackle any quest in the order you like - a short durability forces you to use the tools in tge area, which makes sense, from a design perspective.

You're still did not answer my question. If the animation is repeated. Should it not be automatically skipped. That's the point. It's something that doesn't need to be done, in the first place. Take this: You're watching a movie. Say X-Men. And every movie must explain how everyone got their powers. Is this acceptable? Because there can be some new people, in the audiance. Or should the new people take responablity, that they didn't watch the first movie. If I disabled blood moon. And stopped playing BOTW for months. It's my fault I forgot what it did. The cutscene is there to constantly feed you repeated information. Why do you think Fi was the most hated thing, in SS.

Zelda 1 functions the same way. And had no durability. Are you basically saying that the reason for durability. Was because to prevent someone from figuring out a way, to cheese or exploit the game. By playing it out of order. That will still happen. People can beat Zelda 1, with no sword. Holding onto weapons wouldn't be an issue. It be an astetic thing. Or a certain advantage.



potato_hamster said:
Mnementh said:

(1) Yeah, I remembered that after sending a post. I actually moved through a river one time this way. There are even more ways I left out: you could make something you can stand on float through the air and airsail to the destination or you could freeze an object in time and charge it with kinetic energy and at the last moment hop onto it to ride the cannonball.

(2) Yeah, was wondering too why it is annoying for running. I run until my stamina is nearly depleted and keep jogging while my stamina replenishes for another sprint.

You do realize that you're creating work-arounds for what others consider to be annoyances, right? The fact that you can work around it, or tolerate it, doesn't mean it's that tolerable to others, or that the work arounds make it less annoying.

Imagine if someone but a giant boulder in front of your front door that allowed you to only open the door a foot. When you complain about it, they say, "welll you can still squeeze through the door, or you can take your door off it's hinges and hop over the boulder, or you could you could just use the door on the back of your house. It's really not a problem having that boulder there if you think about it" I'm pretty sure you'd still prefer to have the boulder removed so you can use the door the way you'd like without the work arounds.

You know what's annoying? Running out of ammo in shooters. Why can't I just have infinite ammo? It's much more fun not having to ever reload my weapon and alway be shooting. Where's the fun in stopping the action for 5 seconds just so I can't have unlimited power and be unstoppable?



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Slarvax said:

You know what's annoying? Running out of ammo in shooters. Why can't I just have infinite ammo? It's much more fun not having to ever reload my weapon and alway be shooting. Where's the fun in stopping the action for 5 seconds just so I can't have unlimited power and be unstoppable?

Go and play DOOM already. Guns don't even reload :D  (no infinite ammo though)



Those guys attacking him is petty. Jim Sterling is a guy you can trust to give comprehensive and thorough reviews.



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