Get them 1 year exclusive VN's, Phil.
Bandorr said:
The xbox 360 came out in 2005. The xbox one came out in 2013. The xbox one S came out in 2016. The scorpio is coming out late 2017. 8 years... vs 1. Xbox constantly has said "no exclusives" for the scorpio. They obviously never said that for Xbox 360/one. So if they release major exclusive content a YEAR after releasing a new console, and a year of saying "no exclusives" that will be VASTLY different than releasing a new console.. 8 years later. |
Lmao just stop. It's the slim version of a console just like the 360 had. What happened a couple yrs after 360s launch. Support for it was almost completely stopped and there was no up roar. And I'm not saying pull support just do what titanfall and fh2 did with cross gen.
phil: guys games on Scorpio have to look and feel exactly the same as the slim version.
Devs: why
phil: we don't want to piss off the slim owners.
devs: well what am I supposed to do then
phil: *wispers in there ear* increase resolution by a little bit but I don't want to see a difference even in side by side pictures. Can't piss anyone off.
Halo MCC will sell 5+ million copies(including digital)
halo 5 will sell 10 million copies(including digital)
x1 will pass ps4 in USA, and UK.
shikamaru317 said:
Hard to say really, that article is kind of outdated, I seem to recall AMD changed their release plans back in December, but I'm not sure if semi-customs will be available any sooner. I just know that Raven Ridge is coming this year, so there is a chance of Scorpio using some Raven Ridge cores. Even if Scorpio doesn't use Raven Ridge/Ryzen, I'm almost 100% certain that it won't just use an overlocked Jaguar like PS4 Pro. MS has said that balance is important to them with Scorpio, and a Jaguar CPU would most definitely create imbalance. PS4 Pro pretty much has Jaguar overclocked to it's limits (within reasonable console thermal limits), and it's still creating bottlenecks in many games, and that's with a 4.2 tflop GPU, Scorpio has a 6 tflop GPU. At the very least Scorpio will use 8 Stoney Ridge cores I'm sure, which is at least a 50% improvement over Jaguar (at the same clockrate) if I'm not mistaken. |
Your failure here is to actually think PR matters to MS. The company that promised the power of the Cloud. Said Kinect was so integrated into the OS, it would be impossible to remove it from the package. And who keeps promising more games/IPs for their Xbox customers, only to cancel many of them and port the others over to the PC, basically eliminating exclusives.
Snoopy said:
There is no more generations with Microsoft. They will release a new console every 2-3 years and they have the money/resource to do that easily since they have the whole surface team behind them, similar to how what they do with tablets. Price does play a role and that is part of the reason why Microsoft is doing this. You can probably play PS5 games and xbox scorpio 2 games on the regular xbox scorpio. So if you don't care about graphics, you can stick with the regular xbox scorpio.
Finally, exclusives don't hold the some weight as they once did on both sides. That is why the best selling games on ps4 and xbox one are always multiplatform games. And like I've said before, out of the top 30 games sold on PS4, only one of them is exclusive (uncharted 4). Microsoft is leveraging off their big exclusive games still, but they know power, price,online ,friends and third party games matter a lot. I'll be back tomorrow to debate some more, but I have some errands to complete. |
You seriously need to stop looking at MS's money and thinking its automatically Xbox's. It's quite obvious that Xbox doesn't have the money and resources to launch a system every 2-3 years when they don't have enough to just throw out to Japanese devs to get ports to their system, to continue to buy 3rd party advertising, and, more importantly, fund those games they keep talking about bringing to their customers. If the Scorpio fails, MS is going to seriously reconsider staying in the HW business. And if Spencer still convinces them to release a XB2 and it fails, they will be done.
Also, exclusives still mean A LOT. Why do you think the PS4 is still kicking the XBO's ass when they are the same price, and at one point the XBO was cheaper than it? It's because the PS4 is still getting interesting games that you can not find anywhere else, including console exclusives that appeal to those who only game on console. Exclusives matter, even if they don't sell 10M+, they are still appealing to the 1M-5M people that buy them, which adds up.
Phil Spencer is flying to Japan? To Sony Headquarter Japan to sign the unconditional surrender?
Hunting Season is done...
NATO said:
> implying 90% of games are the same > implying people were choosing more based on power than the huge price difference > implying PlayStation's track record for delivering a wide variety of great games had nothing to do with it > implying the Xbox brand was ever as strong as PlayStation, when in reality the lead only ever existed because of the year market headstart Oh boy are you misguided. |
Oh man where do i start. Im sure the PS4 outsold the X1 with its launch games of Knack and Killzone. Had nothing to do with the power and slight price advantage... nice logic.
Gamers want the better deal these days not the better game's hence why the WiiU didnt sell. More power at a affordable price is the killer combo with modern generations.
I dont know where Microsoft thinks the scorpio will help them rebrand. Being good at making games has been the issue for three generations and they've still never fixed it. Buying IP's from other companies doesnt count.
| S.T.A.G.E. said: I dont know where Microsoft thinks the scorpio will help them rebrand. Being good at making games has been the issue for three generations and they've still never fixed it. Buying IP's from other companies doesnt count. |
/thread
Snoopy said:
2 million isn't a lot considering how badly Microsoft botch the launch of the xbox one system. If Microsoft had the same price and went for power I have no doubt xbox would've dominated the ps4 with ease in united states. The top thirty best selling games on ps4 are all multiplatform except one. If xbox scorpio sells out which is quite possible that alone should put it ahead in North America. 4k tvs are being adopted faster than 1080p tvs. Everyone who is getting a 4k tv will want an xbox scorpio for their games and blu rays. Not to mention it will probably be the cheapest way to play games when the ps5/xbox scorpio 2 comes out. Microsoft is just doing what the market dictates them to do. |
If this if that, they didn't and Scorpio isn't going to fix it.
Xbox is behind because it exists solely on dudebro games.
| Azzanation said: Not these days. When you have two identical consoles with a library that offers 90% of the same games. Than the more attractive the powerful console looks. Why do you think the PS4 sold so well especially at launch with very little exclusives separating the two. Similar prices yet one console offered slightly better preformance. |
Let's kill this stupid statement once and for all shall we?
Here's the full list of launch titles that were shared across both console, and the math to calculate the percentage of shared games for each console.
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
Battlefield 4
Call of Duty: Ghosts
FIFA 14
Just Dance 2014
LEGO Marvel Super Heroes
Madden NFL 25
NBA 2K14
NBA Live 14
Need for Speed: Rivals
Skylanders: Swap Force
PS4 launch titles: 26
XBO launch titles: 22
PS4 launch titles available on XBO: 11 (42%)
XBO launch titles available on PS4: 11 (50%)
Neither console had over 50% multiplatform titles between each other, so yeah, you can take that %90 nonsense and burn it.
PS4 sold more, because it was cheaper, better, had more games, had better exclusive games already shown off for the console, and a long standing record, even on their worst performing home console, of providing the best range of games on any system, let's not forget that the PS3 which was the laughing stock of the gaming world for the first 2 years on the market on account of it's 12-16month launch delay, prohibitively expensive price and a media constantly poking fun at it.. despite all that still clawed back the massive lead the Xbox 360 once had and finished it's generation slightly ahead.
This gen they launched neck and neck, and ever since the systems launched the PS4 has consistently expanded that lead worldwide every single week, the Xbox hasn't clawed back any of that lead and continues to fall further and further behind.
The writings on the wall and it's clear as day, PlayStation is a stronger brand.
| thismeintiel said: Also seems they are learning from Sony's mistakes and having Boost Mode available at launch. |
Actually. Sony is learning from Microsoft. The Xbox One S has slighty faster hardware than the Xbox One, so it was the first console to set such a precedent.
| Radek said: I fail to see why? Xbox Scorpio will aim for 4K resolution or close to it, all GPU power will go towards that and/or higher details. 4K is 5.7x higher than 900p 4K is 4x higher than 1080p. Don't expect 60 fps gaming in majority of games, extra RAM will go towards higher resolution textures. |
Extra Ram will go towards everything. Just increasing resolution increases the amount of Ram you use even if you don't increase texture quality.
Besides. Like I said before the PS4 Pro launched, before we knew about the hardware or checkerboarding.
4k won't be happening. Not for demanding AAA titles. If the PC can't do it, your consoles certainly can't.
| Radek said: I still don't get it. So what if most games won't be native 4K? |
The crux is that Sony and Microsoft advertise their platforms as 4k gaming devices.
| Radek said: Making them 1800p Native or 2160p checkerboard will still require that 6 Tflops of power, it will still look great on 4K TV's that they are pushing now. |
How does flops relate to resolution?
A 6 Teraflop Graphics-Core-Next GPU like the Radeon 390X is geared towards decent 1440P, 60fps, even then it struggles.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1746
Polaris is more efficient, but it doesn't suddenly turn it into an 1800P gaming monster.
The stick that stirs the pot of course is Vega, which brings a ton of efficiency improvements, bridging the gap between AMD and nVidia.
But considering we cannot tell what the future holds... And no Vega hardware is on the market... We can only pull random numbers out of our posteriors at this stage.
| Radek said: Scorpio won't be dragged down by Xbox One, because it will use it's power for more consistant frame-rates, much higher resolutions and higher details. |
Let's hope. Because it took games awhile to start looking next-gen due to developers retaining development ties to last-gen consoles, even though the next-gen games had more consistent frame-rates, higher resolutions and higher details.
The Xbox One is still the development baseline remember. - I see Scorpio taking advantage of PC-like graphics settings for the immediate future, especially in multiplats, rather than pushing the envelope.
The Playstation 4 is the best selling console, so most developers will still retain focus on that specific box.
| Radek said: I'm sure Scorpio version of RDR 2 @ 1800p will make Xbox One version look like a blurry mess at 900p. |
Of course.
With that in mind, it's still not 4k.
| Radek said: Let's assume RDR 2 will be native 900p on Xbox One and native 1080p on PS4. 1600*900 = 1440000 3200*1800 = 5760000 1440000*4 = 5760000 Based on math games like RDR 2 should run at 1800p Native with relative ease on Scorpio if it's 4.2x more powerful than Xbox One S. |
If you are basing the performance-leap on flops alone, how are you accounting for inherent inefficiencies in the GPU architecture and bottlenecks? You do realise that there is more to performance than single precision floating point right?
Some GPU's are able to scale up to higher resolutions rather well, but as soon as a part of the chip starts to bottleneck, then performance tanks.
So... If you are hoping for a sizable increase in fidelity, then that can hinder higher resolutions.
Essentially, it is completely up to the developers, what they have to work with, rather than your basic math or flops.
| Radek said: Japanese developers already know it's relatively simple to port their games to Xbox and yet they choose not to. |
They are porting games to PC though. Microsoft may leverage that at some point.... And I assume is the primary goal with the Universal Windows Platform.
| m_csquare said: I think you're giving the wrong example. 820k is a looot for a port. Many of the pc ports barely sell 500k but it didnt stop capcom, squenix and bamco from porting to pc |
PC is a little different though. You don't release a game and then try to prolong it's life with DLC.
PC games have stupidly long legs, these games as soon as they get discounted can hit the top of the sales charts and shift thousands of more copies... Even a decade after they have released.
Consoles games have their peak at release, then the games decline in sales rate... It doesn't help that console games typically have a limited disc-stamp run, so even if you wanted to buy a physical version brand-new, you can't. PC being mostly digital side-steps that.
| exclusive_console said: I think what liquid_faction meant is that higher res will not make much difference the gfx upgrade is going to be minimal of these mid gen console. So Microsoft should kill Xbone and use Scorpio as the base platform for a new gen which can make a big difference. I agree with his assessment too. But Microsoft do not want to take risk. |
Nah. By killing the Xbox One off, Microsoft will alienate customers.
Plus the Xbox One platform already has fairly low online populations, Scorpio needs to add to that to provide for a better online experience, rather than fragment it more.
Plus Microsoft has advertised the Scorpio as a premium version of the Xbox One, it's way to late to backtrack on that now, they will draw the ire of gamers everywhere otherwise.
| Snoopy said: Exactly, now that there is UWP you can target it and make games on both xbox and pc. I personally want to see more of those PC games like civilization 6 and star citizen on xbox one than some of these japanese games. |
Civilization 6 would be god-aweful on a controller.
Plus the Xbox One is not fast enough, Civilization 6 is CPU heavy, unless you wish to spend 6-months on waiting for the turn to be calculated... Consoles need to start taking CPU performance seriously for the full-PC-like experience of Civilization 6 to become a reality.
As for Star Citizen. - I think the same issue apply's. Unless you start downgrading the game significantly, cutting back on Physics, Particles. etc'.
thismeintiel said:
Missed this. Current rumors are its doing what the Pro did. Same Jaguar cores, just overclocked. They may go for a slight upgrade in the cores, forgot what that was called. Still, would only make a small difference. They are not going to use Ryzen. It has an 8 core CPU you in it. The cheapest 8 core Ryzen is $319 at launch, so MAYBE $250 for MS. Unless you want this sucker to cost $599+, which we know how that works, it ain't getting Ryzen. That'll most likely be saved for the PS5, which after nearly 2 years on the market, should be cheap enough by then for a $399 console. |
I don't think people understand costs.
Consoles are cost-sensitive platforms, you can't have the best of everything. Ryzen ain't happening. Not a full-blown 8-core chip anyway.
Scorpio will be using Jaguar or it's successor, Puma or Puma+... We already know it has 4x the L2 cache, which should help CPU performance considerably.
| shikamaru317 said: They don't need to use a desktop Ryzen, some CPU cores from the upcoming line of Ryzen APU's (which launch this summer) would be more than enough for a console. APU cores are cheaper and they use less power (therefore creating less heat, which is ideal for a console). AMD actually had a Scorpio display at their Ryzen booth at CES this year, and when asked about why it was there they said that there was a reason for it but that they couldn't comment on it yet (likely due to an NDA with MS). |
I don't think you understand how massive a Ryzen core is. They're massive. And expensive. It is irrellevent if it has an integrated GPU or not, it changes nothing.
| jason1637 said: With UWP and games coming to PC and XB1 it should eb a lot easier. Most Japanese devs already port their games to PC so with UWP they can create an Xbox and PC port at the same time with spending money for 1 port and releasing on two platforms. |
The issue with the Universal Windows Platform is that... Developers arent required to use it on PC. Only if they wan't their games on the Windows store.
The majority of PC games however get released on Steam, which completely ignores UWP.
So untill that changes... Microsoft cannot leverage UWP to bolster the Xbox One.
| hudsoniscool said: I'm hoping Scorpio causes a noticeable change in all games over standard one. And some games(probably only 1st and 2nd party) have exclusive features and content. Like halo 6 warzone mode 'only possible on Scorpio'. I'm glad Phil gets that every game needs improvement. |
I don't agree. I don't want there to be segmentation in game modes and such. That splits up the playerbase, DLC tends to cause allot of damage on that front as it is.
| hudsoniscool said: People hating on ms and saying gears/halo/forza don't sell are making themselves look foolish. Gears at around 4 million, halo 5 did 5 million in 3 months and likely in the 7 million range despite having a very bad campaign and getting an 84 on meta. fh3 did 2.5 million already(not sure if that includes digital). |
Would have been interesting to see how well Halo 5 would have done if it had the user-base of the 360 at the end of it's life... Also interested to see how the misgivings of Halo 5 influence Halo 6.
Halo as a franchise though, is in decline after it's peak with Halo 3, that can't really be disputed.
| Liquid_faction said: What if a game's mechanics are just too demanding for the One? Something that if you want to put it on the One, it would look like you're comparing the 360 to the Xbox One. I doubt developers would want to develop two sperate games for two separate systems. They'll most likely still gimp it down to the Xbox One levels for it to be still compatible with the One if the Scorpio's fanbase isn't big enough. |
The Xbox One is the lowest common denominator this generation.
If you were to throw that install base away. (Which is stupid to do, because money.)
Then developers would still need to take in mind of Sony's Playstation 4 as the other lowest-common denominators, in otherwords. Not much changes anyway.
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