| thismeintiel said: Also seems they are learning from Sony's mistakes and having Boost Mode available at launch. |
Actually. Sony is learning from Microsoft. The Xbox One S has slighty faster hardware than the Xbox One, so it was the first console to set such a precedent.
| Radek said: I fail to see why? Xbox Scorpio will aim for 4K resolution or close to it, all GPU power will go towards that and/or higher details. 4K is 5.7x higher than 900p 4K is 4x higher than 1080p. Don't expect 60 fps gaming in majority of games, extra RAM will go towards higher resolution textures. |
Extra Ram will go towards everything. Just increasing resolution increases the amount of Ram you use even if you don't increase texture quality.
Besides. Like I said before the PS4 Pro launched, before we knew about the hardware or checkerboarding.
4k won't be happening. Not for demanding AAA titles. If the PC can't do it, your consoles certainly can't.
| Radek said: I still don't get it. So what if most games won't be native 4K? |
The crux is that Sony and Microsoft advertise their platforms as 4k gaming devices.
| Radek said: Making them 1800p Native or 2160p checkerboard will still require that 6 Tflops of power, it will still look great on 4K TV's that they are pushing now. |
How does flops relate to resolution?
A 6 Teraflop Graphics-Core-Next GPU like the Radeon 390X is geared towards decent 1440P, 60fps, even then it struggles.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1746
Polaris is more efficient, but it doesn't suddenly turn it into an 1800P gaming monster.
The stick that stirs the pot of course is Vega, which brings a ton of efficiency improvements, bridging the gap between AMD and nVidia.
But considering we cannot tell what the future holds... And no Vega hardware is on the market... We can only pull random numbers out of our posteriors at this stage.
| Radek said: Scorpio won't be dragged down by Xbox One, because it will use it's power for more consistant frame-rates, much higher resolutions and higher details. |
Let's hope. Because it took games awhile to start looking next-gen due to developers retaining development ties to last-gen consoles, even though the next-gen games had more consistent frame-rates, higher resolutions and higher details.
The Xbox One is still the development baseline remember. - I see Scorpio taking advantage of PC-like graphics settings for the immediate future, especially in multiplats, rather than pushing the envelope.
The Playstation 4 is the best selling console, so most developers will still retain focus on that specific box.
| Radek said: I'm sure Scorpio version of RDR 2 @ 1800p will make Xbox One version look like a blurry mess at 900p. |
Of course.
With that in mind, it's still not 4k.
| Radek said: Let's assume RDR 2 will be native 900p on Xbox One and native 1080p on PS4. 1600*900 = 1440000 3200*1800 = 5760000 1440000*4 = 5760000 Based on math games like RDR 2 should run at 1800p Native with relative ease on Scorpio if it's 4.2x more powerful than Xbox One S. |
If you are basing the performance-leap on flops alone, how are you accounting for inherent inefficiencies in the GPU architecture and bottlenecks? You do realise that there is more to performance than single precision floating point right?
Some GPU's are able to scale up to higher resolutions rather well, but as soon as a part of the chip starts to bottleneck, then performance tanks.
So... If you are hoping for a sizable increase in fidelity, then that can hinder higher resolutions.
Essentially, it is completely up to the developers, what they have to work with, rather than your basic math or flops.
| Radek said: Japanese developers already know it's relatively simple to port their games to Xbox and yet they choose not to. |
They are porting games to PC though. Microsoft may leverage that at some point.... And I assume is the primary goal with the Universal Windows Platform.
| m_csquare said: I think you're giving the wrong example. 820k is a looot for a port. Many of the pc ports barely sell 500k but it didnt stop capcom, squenix and bamco from porting to pc |
PC is a little different though. You don't release a game and then try to prolong it's life with DLC.
PC games have stupidly long legs, these games as soon as they get discounted can hit the top of the sales charts and shift thousands of more copies... Even a decade after they have released.
Consoles games have their peak at release, then the games decline in sales rate... It doesn't help that console games typically have a limited disc-stamp run, so even if you wanted to buy a physical version brand-new, you can't. PC being mostly digital side-steps that.
| exclusive_console said: I think what liquid_faction meant is that higher res will not make much difference the gfx upgrade is going to be minimal of these mid gen console. So Microsoft should kill Xbone and use Scorpio as the base platform for a new gen which can make a big difference. I agree with his assessment too. But Microsoft do not want to take risk. |
Nah. By killing the Xbox One off, Microsoft will alienate customers.
Plus the Xbox One platform already has fairly low online populations, Scorpio needs to add to that to provide for a better online experience, rather than fragment it more.
Plus Microsoft has advertised the Scorpio as a premium version of the Xbox One, it's way to late to backtrack on that now, they will draw the ire of gamers everywhere otherwise.
| Snoopy said: Exactly, now that there is UWP you can target it and make games on both xbox and pc. I personally want to see more of those PC games like civilization 6 and star citizen on xbox one than some of these japanese games. |
Civilization 6 would be god-aweful on a controller.
Plus the Xbox One is not fast enough, Civilization 6 is CPU heavy, unless you wish to spend 6-months on waiting for the turn to be calculated... Consoles need to start taking CPU performance seriously for the full-PC-like experience of Civilization 6 to become a reality.
As for Star Citizen. - I think the same issue apply's. Unless you start downgrading the game significantly, cutting back on Physics, Particles. etc'.
thismeintiel said:
Missed this. Current rumors are its doing what the Pro did. Same Jaguar cores, just overclocked. They may go for a slight upgrade in the cores, forgot what that was called. Still, would only make a small difference. They are not going to use Ryzen. It has an 8 core CPU you in it. The cheapest 8 core Ryzen is $319 at launch, so MAYBE $250 for MS. Unless you want this sucker to cost $599+, which we know how that works, it ain't getting Ryzen. That'll most likely be saved for the PS5, which after nearly 2 years on the market, should be cheap enough by then for a $399 console. |
I don't think people understand costs.
Consoles are cost-sensitive platforms, you can't have the best of everything. Ryzen ain't happening. Not a full-blown 8-core chip anyway.
Scorpio will be using Jaguar or it's successor, Puma or Puma+... We already know it has 4x the L2 cache, which should help CPU performance considerably.
| shikamaru317 said: They don't need to use a desktop Ryzen, some CPU cores from the upcoming line of Ryzen APU's (which launch this summer) would be more than enough for a console. APU cores are cheaper and they use less power (therefore creating less heat, which is ideal for a console). AMD actually had a Scorpio display at their Ryzen booth at CES this year, and when asked about why it was there they said that there was a reason for it but that they couldn't comment on it yet (likely due to an NDA with MS). |
I don't think you understand how massive a Ryzen core is. They're massive. And expensive. It is irrellevent if it has an integrated GPU or not, it changes nothing.
| jason1637 said: With UWP and games coming to PC and XB1 it should eb a lot easier. Most Japanese devs already port their games to PC so with UWP they can create an Xbox and PC port at the same time with spending money for 1 port and releasing on two platforms. |
The issue with the Universal Windows Platform is that... Developers arent required to use it on PC. Only if they wan't their games on the Windows store.
The majority of PC games however get released on Steam, which completely ignores UWP.
So untill that changes... Microsoft cannot leverage UWP to bolster the Xbox One.
| hudsoniscool said: I'm hoping Scorpio causes a noticeable change in all games over standard one. And some games(probably only 1st and 2nd party) have exclusive features and content. Like halo 6 warzone mode 'only possible on Scorpio'. I'm glad Phil gets that every game needs improvement. |
I don't agree. I don't want there to be segmentation in game modes and such. That splits up the playerbase, DLC tends to cause allot of damage on that front as it is.
| hudsoniscool said: People hating on ms and saying gears/halo/forza don't sell are making themselves look foolish. Gears at around 4 million, halo 5 did 5 million in 3 months and likely in the 7 million range despite having a very bad campaign and getting an 84 on meta. fh3 did 2.5 million already(not sure if that includes digital). |
Would have been interesting to see how well Halo 5 would have done if it had the user-base of the 360 at the end of it's life... Also interested to see how the misgivings of Halo 5 influence Halo 6.
Halo as a franchise though, is in decline after it's peak with Halo 3, that can't really be disputed.
| Liquid_faction said: What if a game's mechanics are just too demanding for the One? Something that if you want to put it on the One, it would look like you're comparing the 360 to the Xbox One. I doubt developers would want to develop two sperate games for two separate systems. They'll most likely still gimp it down to the Xbox One levels for it to be still compatible with the One if the Scorpio's fanbase isn't big enough. |
The Xbox One is the lowest common denominator this generation.
If you were to throw that install base away. (Which is stupid to do, because money.)
Then developers would still need to take in mind of Sony's Playstation 4 as the other lowest-common denominators, in otherwords. Not much changes anyway.
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