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Forums - Politics Discussion - Invalid votes in Florida outnumbering Trump margin of victory

bdbdbd said:
Usually when people vote for Mickey Mouse and the likes, they do so because they feel obligated to vote, but don't have a candidate to vote for. I've done the same a time or two.

I wonder how many of them now regret their decision? 

I know people who don't engage in politics because "they're all the same" but are now acting like Trump is the worst thing to happen to America. 



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I never understood the protest vote. I have other things to do with my time than stand around waiting to put "Harambe" on a ballot.



Ka-pi96 said:
Angelus said:
Sadly, people tend to take democracy for granted. Everyone likes to complain about the politics, and the politicians once they're set, but nobody likes to actually involve themselves in the process.

Knowing what the process is like, can you really blame them though?

Of course. It would be completely irresponsible not to



Eagle367 said:

What should happen is you get a percentage of electoral votes from states instead of a clean sweep like if 40% Californians voted republican then 40% of 55 electoral votes go to them and if 49% voted for democrates in New Hampshire then they get 2 electoral votes each that would be much more closer to true democracy 

Bad idea ... 

The house of representatives would gain more power to dictate elections in the presence of third party voters ...



Shadow1980 said:

It's not as bad as us, though. Finland had a 70% turnout in the most recent parliamentary election, and the 2012 presidential election had a turnout of 73% in the first round and 69% in the second round. Turnout in this past presidential election in the U.S. was only 55%, and the 2014 congressional elections (the "mid-terms" as we call them) was a paltry 35% for lower house elections.

Turnout in the U.S. is well below most other developed nations, probably at least in part due to how the system is largely rigged. While Finland is a unitary republic, the U.S. is a federal republic, and as a result we have a messy electoral patchwork. Not only did notions of federalism in the 1780s result in the horribly unrepresentative Electoral College (they had to get slave states and small states on board), but since states were left to determine things like the boundaries of lower house districts, we have a situation where the majority parties in state governments can gerrymander the districts to guarantee themselves a larger number of safe seats. Also, we have private money being totally unrestricted when introduced into the electoral system. And for the past 150 years certain Americans have continually sought to deprive certain other Americans of the right to vote. Our entire system was based on it being rigged to favor certain factions over others, with little to no accountability.

Evolving notions of democracy need to take us past the electoral systems of the late 18th century. If everyone's vote counted equally, if elections were free from the corrupting influence of private money, if politicians weren't allowed to rig the system, and if people weren't routinely under threat of arbitrary disenfranchisement, then turnout in the U.S. would probably be a lot higher than it is today. I do know that a lot of people sit at home because they believe their state or congressional district is already decided. There is evidence to suggest that turnout is higher in places where elections are routinely competitive.

Trump said he could have won with a national popular vote by campaigning in solid Democratic states to increase turnout. I say he should put his money where his mouth is and actually put that to the test. Have the EC abolished and replaced by a national popular vote, and let's see how well he fares.

I don't think the problem lies within the electoral college, but the two-party system. Think about if you yourself are politically on the left, who you're going to vote. A party on the right or another even more on the right. Or, think about the US 2016 elections, people seem to be thinking both of the candidates were bad. Who were you going to vote. It really doesn't matter in the end who you vote, because the seats are going to be split close to even in any case.

Pretty much the only elections we have here that's actually based on popular vote, are the presidential elections (starting from 1994). For example for the parliamental elections, the different regions of the country are given a number of seats, based on the size of population, that people in their regions get to vote for. All the votes are given to a party first, candidate second. The system uses a relative vote system, meaning that the number one candidate get 100% of the votes given to a party, second candidate get 50%, third 25% and so on, despite the number of actual votes they got. Legally the order of candidates is decided by the party, but in practise they afterwards give the number one spot for the most popular candidate, number two spot for the second most popular and so on. And you only get to vote for candidates in your region of residence.

This system also means, that biggest regions have candidates with 15000+ personal votes and not getting elected, while the smaller regions may have the most popular candidate elected with only 7500 votes, at the same time the biggest regions can have candidates elected with 4000 votes if a party's success is based on one or two highly popular candidates.



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Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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Otter said:
bdbdbd said:
Usually when people vote for Mickey Mouse and the likes, they do so because they feel obligated to vote, but don't have a candidate to vote for. I've done the same a time or two.

I wonder how many of them now regret their decision? 

I know people who don't engage in politics because "they're all the same" but are now acting like Trump is the worst thing to happen to America. 

I don't know. My guess would be the same amount that would regret if Clinton was elected. US has two parties, so the popular vote can't be far off the 50/50 split. 

RJ_Sizzle said:
I never understood the protest vote. I have other things to do with my time than stand around waiting to put "Harambe" on a ballot.

Of course people have other things to do, it's not taking much of your time to go to vote anyway. Voting is your duty as a citizen, and there's not much else you really can do if there's no candidate you could vote for. Ever since I had my right to vote, I've voted in every election, and if there's not a candidate I could vote for, Mickey Mouse is high on the list.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Yeah, I think it was obvious these were two unpopylar candidates. Trump the most unpopular going into office. I think the libertarian and green parties also had higher numbers.



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bunchanumbers said:
WolfpackN64 said:

The electoral collage is part of your problem. It's not a solution for anything.

Pretty much this. It kills votes in states that are all red or all blue. I live in a hardcore red state and its tough to get people to go vote because they know their vote means nothing.

It goes both ways. The left can always rely on CA, NY, and other states open to complete governement control.

In fact, I'd argue the left always has an advantage when they have good candidates. Dems can rely more on highly populated states.



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Mr Puggsly said:
bunchanumbers said:

Pretty much this. It kills votes in states that are all red or all blue. I live in a hardcore red state and its tough to get people to go vote because they know their vote means nothing.

It goes both ways. The left can always rely on CA, NY, and other states open to complete governement control.

In fact, I'd argue the left always has an advantage when they have good candidates. Dems can rely more on highly populated states.

Agreed, people forget that democrates have a natural advantage in the electrocal college if you just count blue or red states. 



fatslob-:O said:
Eagle367 said:

What should happen is you get a percentage of electoral votes from states instead of a clean sweep like if 40% Californians voted republican then 40% of 55 electoral votes go to them and if 49% voted for democrates in New Hampshire then they get 2 electoral votes each that would be much more closer to true democracy 

Bad idea ... 

The house of representatives would gain more power to dictate elections in the presence of third party voters ...

How so. The USA republic way of government is confusing as hell to me



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