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Forums - Politics Discussion - So Trump has already started messing up big time relationships with Mexico

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torok said:

Actually, the whole Latin America could be in much better shape if anyone followed what Chile is doing. They are doing freaking great, have tons of bilateral trading deals (much better than multi-country free trade regions like EU or Mercosul). They have a high degree of economic freedom and are exporting like crazy.

Exactly. Chile is doing amazing. And they are standing on their own two feet and achieving it.

They formed a free trade agreement with Australia back in 2009... As well as other countries and they have seen some great growth.
They wen't from $240 billion GDP + $13,331 GDP per capita to $297 billion GDP + $16,573 GDP per capita in just 7 years, that's a 24% growth over that period, at a time when other countries in the region stagnated or declined.



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Trump understands this reality better than anyone else ...

A sovereign nation can not be truly independent if it can't be economically self sufficient ...

Many countries depend on the US because it is the exporting hot spot, Trump knows that the power of prosperity for other countries lies within the United States and I quite like it that he's willing to trade in the happiness of the other nations for his own nation's benefit that he is serving ...



fatslob-:O said:
Many countries depend on the US because it is the exporting hot spot, Trump knows that the power of prosperity for other countries lies within the United States and I quite like it that he's willing to trade in the happiness of the other nations for his own nation's benefit that he is serving ...

USA is the exporting hot spot?

EU and China are exporting a lot more. USA is just ahead of Germany (with 4x the population of Germany):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports



Conina said:
fatslob-:O said:
Many countries depend on the US because it is the exporting hot spot, Trump knows that the power of prosperity for other countries lies within the United States and I quite like it that he's willing to trade in the happiness of the other nations for his own nation's benefit that he is serving ...

USA is the exporting hot spot?

EU and China are exporting a lot more. USA is just ahead of Germany (with 4x the population of Germany):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

Yeah, if anything USA is the importing hot spot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_imports



fatslob-:O said:
 I quite like it that he's willing to trade in the happiness of the other nations for his own nation's benefit that he is serving ...

I fucking hate this selfish, short-sighted rhetoric. People that don't understand everyone could be off better if everyone could agree upon helping each other out.



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Conina said:

USA is the exporting hot spot?

EU and China are exporting a lot more. USA is just ahead of Germany (with 4x the population of Germany):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

 

Player2 said:

Yeah, if anything USA is the importing hot spot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_imports

I should have been more specific and said it's an exporting hot spot for "other countries" ... (where they send their products and services too)



palou said:
irstupid said:

Who cares about how many illegals voted or not. 1 is too many imo.

But I don't care if it was 1 illegal or 5 million. I don't care if Trump won teh popular vote or not. Voter fraud is not about getting someoen the popular vote, it would be about making sure that the election process is not corupt. Should that not be the main goal. 

I'm actually glad that he didn't win teh popular vote. It shows our system works. Mob rule does not rule. Our democratic republic system was put into place to prevent 5 counties in the entire country deciding an election.

How can the decision of less equally unqualififed and uninformed people be better than more? 

Also, political parties really only look at swing states. So yes, 5 counties (states) can decide the election. This would not be the case in a proportional system, as onvincing voters is just as important in all states (going from 40 to 45 or 70 to 75 % is just as good as going from 47% to 52% in a state.) 

Complaining now shows poor sport, people seemed fine with the voting system before the elections, and lost by rules they knew; like it or not, Trump is legitimate president. Should have complained before knowing the results. This, however, does not change that the electoral system is complete and utter shite, and should be something that people seek to abbolish as fast as possible (democrats or republicans won't bring change; as the system favorizes a stable 2 party system, so in both their interests. In countries with better electoral systems, people  have more than 2 choices that are not thrown out votes.)

Here is an excellent video series on the subject (which I suggest you to watch in the entirety, but 1st one should suffice for now.)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&list=PLEcHCTVM79BMISVn4AV5EXSglGDzRgwgG

Your video just explains why the two party system exists, which is common senes. Has nothign to do with Electoral college.

Anyone who thinks that Electorate system is wrong is not thinking of the bigger picture and thinking simple.

Let's think of something simple that we could probably all relate to. Highschool and extra curicular activites. Lets say there is a arts, balley, football, chess and gardening club that are part of the school activities. They meet once a year to discuss funding for each program. Lets have our 100% democratic way of voting. Okay, so each person in each club gets ONE vote. Problem is, there is 100 football players and only 52 members of all the other clubs combined. Thus the football club gets to unanimously decide every single year what the budget gets put to. 

Now with a electoral system (the democratic republic that we have) we give each group a certain value. Say the arts get 1, balley get 2, chess gets 1, gardening 1 and football 4. Now even if 100% of the football club votes 1 way, they don't have mob rule. the other classes if they all vote the same will outnumber the football club.

That is how our electoral college works and how it should work. It gives teh minority a vote. Without the electoral college we woudl rely on Chicago, New York, La, Houston and a couple other HUGE cities to decide what every single other city, coutny, town, ect in teh entire united states would want. Do you really think that a New Yorker is voting for waht is in the best interest for a farmer in Idaho? Do you really think a LA person is going to be putting someone in office that will be looking out for the small town business owner in Kentuky? 

Look at teh recent ACA that was brought into Law back in 2010 or something. Many times it took HUGE promises of federal money/subsidies/ect before a state would have its congressment be happy. So can we easily see that the same woudl happen. You would have New York or other get huge subsidies for something and screw over Nebraska. But who cares. Nebraska has no vote. All teh vote is in New York and LA and other big cities. THey would pander 100% to them and make likfe easy for them. Minnesota right now is seeing HUGE, I repeat HUGE increases in premiums for health care. Do you tink they might want a voice in the election? But if we go away with the electoral system MN would be completely ignored. Heck even though it has the twin cities, it is still basically a "fly over state" that means not much when it comes to election time. 



irstupid said:
palou said:

How can the decision of less equally unqualififed and uninformed people be better than more? 

Also, political parties really only look at swing states. So yes, 5 counties (states) can decide the election. This would not be the case in a proportional system, as onvincing voters is just as important in all states (going from 40 to 45 or 70 to 75 % is just as good as going from 47% to 52% in a state.) 

Complaining now shows poor sport, people seemed fine with the voting system before the elections, and lost by rules they knew; like it or not, Trump is legitimate president. Should have complained before knowing the results. This, however, does not change that the electoral system is complete and utter shite, and should be something that people seek to abbolish as fast as possible (democrats or republicans won't bring change; as the system favorizes a stable 2 party system, so in both their interests. In countries with better electoral systems, people  have more than 2 choices that are not thrown out votes.)

Here is an excellent video series on the subject (which I suggest you to watch in the entirety, but 1st one should suffice for now.)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&list=PLEcHCTVM79BMISVn4AV5EXSglGDzRgwgG

Your video just explains why the two party system exists, which is common senes. Has nothign to do with Electoral college.

Anyone who thinks that Electorate system is wrong is not thinking of the bigger picture and thinking simple.

Let's think of something simple that we could probably all relate to. Highschool and extra curicular activites. Lets say there is a arts, balley, football, chess and gardening club that are part of the school activities. They meet once a year to discuss funding for each program. Lets have our 100% democratic way of voting. Okay, so each person in each club gets ONE vote. Problem is, there is 100 football players and only 52 members of all the other clubs combined. Thus the football club gets to unanimously decide every single year what the budget gets put to. 

Now with a electoral system (the democratic republic that we have) we give each group a certain value. Say the arts get 1, balley get 2, chess gets 1, gardening 1 and football 4. Now even if 100% of the football club votes 1 way, they don't have mob rule. the other classes if they all vote the same will outnumber the football club.

That is how our electoral college works and how it should work. It gives teh minority a vote. Without the electoral college we woudl rely on Chicago, New York, La, Houston and a couple other HUGE cities to decide what every single other city, coutny, town, ect in teh entire united states would want. Do you really think that a New Yorker is voting for waht is in the best interest for a farmer in Idaho? Do you really think a LA person is going to be putting someone in office that will be looking out for the small town business owner in Kentuky? 

Look at teh recent ACA that was brought into Law back in 2010 or something. Many times it took HUGE promises of federal money/subsidies/ect before a state would have its congressment be happy. So can we easily see that the same woudl happen. You would have New York or other get huge subsidies for something and screw over Nebraska. But who cares. Nebraska has no vote. All teh vote is in New York and LA and other big cities. THey would pander 100% to them and make likfe easy for them. Minnesota right now is seeing HUGE, I repeat HUGE increases in premiums for health care. Do you tink they might want a voice in the election? But if we go away with the electoral system MN would be completely ignored. Heck even though it has the twin cities, it is still basically a "fly over state" that means not much when it comes to election time. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k&list=PLEcHCTVM79BMISVn4AV5EXSglGDzRgwgG&index=8

Take a quick look at 2:05. It is currently fully possible for a candidate to completely ignore large swaths of the country, as they are not swing states.

What you describe is a problem of Democracy in general; it represents a majority, not all. Coalition governments can help with that (which appear in proportional systems).

 

A proportional system encourages candidates to please as many people as possible.

I do believe that the opinion of 5 times as many people matters 5 times as much.

 

I'll get into the specifics later, have to go.



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This is good. We Americans have the economic and military power to bully any other nation and Obama was weak and unwilling to use it. In fact most Presidents have been weak and unwilling to subjegate other nations. Trump isnt. He's going to help lots of Americans when he takes jobs and and money away from these countries that are powerless to fight back. Good on him, because its good for all of us Americans.



contestgamer said:

This is good. We Americans have the economic and military power to bully any other nation and Obama was weak and unwilling to use it. In fact most Presidents have been weak and unwilling to subjegate other nations. Trump isnt. He's going to help lots of Americans when he takes jobs and and money away from these countries that are powerless to fight back. Good on him, because its good for all of us Americans.

Well fuck you. Egocentric assholes.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

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I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.