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Forums - Nintendo - The Switch is not another Wii U!

 

Does my argument make sense?

Yes 143 34.88%
 
No 171 41.71%
 
I don't care 96 23.41%
 
Total:410
bdbdbd said:

As I said, DeNA makes the games. But by looking at SMR sales, it appears to be just an ad Nintendo makes some money with. The money coming from mobile at the moment is so little it's not even worth to bother for a company the size of Nintendo. 

No doubt Switch will eventually replace 3DS, if that's what the market want's, but we'll have to wait for the next revision for that to happen.


Nothing you have said debunks anything I've posted so whats your point? You just repeated what I said about DeNA, you harp on about SMR I'll simply point to the near Billion Pokemon Go made in 7 months which blows your argument about it not generating enough money out the water.

We're not waiting for any revision 3DS will be done the end of this year and phased out afterward much like the Wii U was last year despite some of you insisting Switch wouldn't replace either.



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Nem said:
zorg1000 said:

You are gobbling up PR talk, they are positioning it as a home console now because 3DS is still doing alright and has some key software releasing. Its no different than Nintendo saying DS wasnt a replacement to GBA, which was true for about 1-1.5 years as GBA was still selling and getting games. By Fall of 2018 when 3DS sales have slowed and Switch recieves a smaller, cheaper portable only model all of a sudden Switch will be the successor to 3DS & Wii U just like DS was all of a sudden a GBA successor once DS started to take off in Spring 2006 and GBA sales/software declined.

The didnt just merge their software divisions, they also merged their hardware devisions and spoke about how creating games for two distinct platforms is becoming too difficult and that they plan on having a unified platform. Thats what i mean by having seperate Wii U and 3DS successors going against everything they have been doing these last couple years.

You didnt answer my question, how does Nintendo manage to support Switch & 4DS when they struggled to support Wii U & 3DS?

See, the part where you say "a unified platform", it's you saying. Nintendo never said such a thing. They said they wanted development to be made easier across platforms.

Btw you say i'm gobbling PR talk, but it's obvious the thing was a home console since day one. I just point out the direct because theres many here who think the Switch is the sucessor to the 3DS and i very much doubt that and if i don't show proof it devolves into a long winded refusal argument.

The switch is designed to use a TV to draw out its best performance. Games will be designed in order to take advantage of that. The option to take the gamepad is just a little bonus, but it downgrades the experience. Besides the thing lacks any quality portability. It takes alot of streching to say the switch is a portable console.

To answer tbe question, Nintendo can't support any console by themselves. They need third parties. That is what they don't have on the home console market and why the switch will likely fail, but they do on the portable market, if they come out with a sucessor to the 3DS.

This is what Iwata said back in the day:

 

“It will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture,” Iwata said. “It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.”

 

“Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform,” he said. But if Nintendo had one unified platform like Apple’s iOS, Iwata said, it could actually create more than just two different game machines each cycle. “To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms.”

“Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples.”

 

 



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Wyrdness said:
bdbdbd said:

As I said, DeNA makes the games. But by looking at SMR sales, it appears to be just an ad Nintendo makes some money with. The money coming from mobile at the moment is so little it's not even worth to bother for a company the size of Nintendo. 

No doubt Switch will eventually replace 3DS, if that's what the market want's, but we'll have to wait for the next revision for that to happen.


Nothing you have said debunks anything I've posted so whats your point? You just repeated what I said about DeNA, you harp on about SMR I'll simply point to the near Billion Pokemon Go made in 7 months which blows your argument about it not generating enough money out the water.

We're not waiting for any revision 3DS will be done the end of this year and phased out afterward much like the Wii U was last year despite some of you insisting Switch wouldn't replace either.

For one, Pokemon Go is a game that needs lots of constant maintainance, which goes against pretty much everything you've been pointing out with saving resources. Secondly, Pokemon Go is a third party game, with Nintendo's share being "pocket change" in relation to parties that are actually involved.

What you need to look, is Super Mario Run; that's a game that represents Nintendo's mobile strategy. Games they put out, are first and foremost ads Nintendo is able to monetise.

A model with better portability is the one that's supposed to replace 3DS. However, it's market that decides.

padib said:
Green098 said:

The Switch needs third party support no doubt about that, but it does not need the third party support of the PS4 or Xbox One. The 3rd party support the Switch needs is the same of the 3DS. Specific titles made from the ground up for that system that utilizes its strongest features. For example games like Kingdom Hearts 3D, Monster Hunter 4 and even well done ports (even if not as graphically impressive as on other hardware) will be great as they are portable versions that people can take anywhere only on Nintendo Switch.

Thank you. Why is this idea so difficult for people to grasp?

Because.

Not only the third parties on 3DS, but also indies Nintendo's been warming up with Wii U (and 3DS) and it's likely Nintendo tries to do everything it can to have popular mobile games on Switch.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

Nem said:
zorg1000 said:

do you honestly believe Nintendo can support a console that is likely 2-3 times as powerful as Wii U alongside a traditional handheld that is somewhere in the ballpark of Vita level hardware?

That goes against everything they have been doing the last few years with merging and restructuring their divisions.

What would be the benefit of that anyway?

No it doesn't. Do you really think they would put all their eggs on one home console when their last one flopped and while they have a portable market on the order of the 60 million?

I mean cmon... is that not a clear picture to you? Why do you think Nintendo would settle for a home console instead of a portable?

There might be merit to the sugestions that a portable switch SKU might be in the cards. Whatever it is, there will be a sucessor to the 3DS, you can be sure of that. And its not the home console, wich Nintendo says IS a home console. Why do you think they bother to make that distinction?

Btw the whole having the developers on one building just meant using similar engines and tools. It never meant only having one system.

Finally someone who understands Switch is not 3DS successor, therefor it wont have its success 



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

bdbdbd said:

For one, Pokemon Go is a game that needs lots of constant maintainance, which goes against pretty much everything you've been pointing out with saving resources. Secondly, Pokemon Go is a third party game, with Nintendo's share being "pocket change" in relation to parties that are actually involved.

What you need to look, is Super Mario Run; that's a game that represents Nintendo's mobile strategy. Games they put out, are first and foremost ads Nintendo is able to monetise.

A model with better portability is the one that's supposed to replace 3DS. However, it's market that decides.


Pokemon Go is maintained by another company so again you're not debunking anything here as Nintendo don't need to focus on it, it's generating constant money while advertizing a key franchise. Pokemon is a first party IP don't give me non of that third party nonsense because that doesn't fly here, Nintendo are the ones who initiated the whole venture into mobile.

Pokemon Go is also representative of Nintendo's mobile strategy as seen with the approach to Fire Emblem, nothing you have posted can argue against any of this no matter how many times you try to say SMR.

No Switch has good portability it's the same size as an iPad mini, portability in today's era has changed a lot since the 3DS launched, even phones today are bigger than phones from close to a decade ago. We're in an era where tablets and larger phones are carried around by most people, Switch is a 3DS replacement a more portable model is not needed for that.



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Nem said:
zorg1000 said:

You are gobbling up PR talk, they are positioning it as a home console now because 3DS is still doing alright and has some key software releasing. Its no different than Nintendo saying DS wasnt a replacement to GBA, which was true for about 1-1.5 years as GBA was still selling and getting games. By Fall of 2018 when 3DS sales have slowed and Switch recieves a smaller, cheaper portable only model all of a sudden Switch will be the successor to 3DS & Wii U just like DS was all of a sudden a GBA successor once DS started to take off in Spring 2006 and GBA sales/software declined.

The didnt just merge their software divisions, they also merged their hardware devisions and spoke about how creating games for two distinct platforms is becoming too difficult and that they plan on having a unified platform. Thats what i mean by having seperate Wii U and 3DS successors going against everything they have been doing these last couple years.

You didnt answer my question, how does Nintendo manage to support Switch & 4DS when they struggled to support Wii U & 3DS?

See, the part where you say "a unified platform", it's you saying. Nintendo never said such a thing. They said they wanted development to be made easier across platforms.

Btw you say i'm gobbling PR talk, but it's obvious the thing was a home console since day one. I just point out the direct because theres many here who think the Switch is the sucessor to the 3DS and i very much doubt that and if i don't show proof it devolves into a long winded refusal argument.

The switch is designed to use a TV to draw out its best performance. Games will be designed in order to take advantage of that. The option to take the gamepad is just a little bonus, but it downgrades the experience. Besides the thing lacks any quality portability. It takes alot of streching to say the switch is a portable console.

To answer tbe question, Nintendo can't support any console by themselves. They need third parties. That is what they don't have on the home console market and why the switch will likely fail, but they do on the portable market, if they come out with a sucessor to the 3DS.

well bdbdbdb found the quotes for me, you can see right there Iwata used the term "unified platform".

it's obvious in what way? just saying something is obvious doesnt make it so. The fact that the actual device is a handheld form factor that can be taken anywhere completely goes against what you are saying.

I never said "by themselves" i said they struggle to support them and that problem will continue going forward as their devices become more sophisticated and powerful.

Besides, what actual benefit is there to having two seperate platforms? all it does is segregate consumers since many people will choose one or  the other and it segregates developers as well since many will choose to develop for one or the other or not at all.

Switch is essentially Wii U+ in terms of specs, what would the 3DS successor be? Considering 3DS is slightly more powerful than PSP, lets say 4DS would be slighlty more powerful than Vita, so we would have a Wii U+ & a Vita+, close enough in power that they are pretty redundant but also not close enough to share a library.

There really is no benefit to having two seperate hardware lines for Nintendo, it makes 10000% more sense to have a single unified platform with a shared library that can be offered in multiple form factors.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Hiku said:
Green098 said:

I think the problem when people say the Switch will do worse than the Wii U is, they fail to take in account the 60+ million 3DS users which are all Nintendo fans. What happened with the 3DS and Wii U is that they chose the 3DS over the Wii U and with the Switch being a hybrid and Nintendo's only platform they no longer have this choice to choose from.

Yeah, even in the worst case scenario, I can't imagine Switch would do worse than WiiU, because of the 3DS.

That said, it's unclear how hard Nintendo are going to go after that crowd. There were hardly any games presented that made you feel like Switch is the new home of 3DS games. No Phoenix Wright, Monster Hunter, or those games that make you think of 3DS.
At the same time Nintendo claim that 3DS still has a long life ahead of it, and announced new games for it.

This message could quickly change with some new game announcements, so we'll see.

What Nintendo should do is release home console games only on switch while handheld games on both switch and 3ds. Continue 3ds support till 2020 so that it can sell more than PSP and I think it has that potential. In 2020 stop supporting 3ds and release an SCU for switch to bring it to modern standards and release switch 2 or whatever in 2023. This is all assuming the switch sells smoothly and at least at Xbox one levels. If not then they should release a successor to 3ds



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Wyrdness said:
bdbdbd said:

For one, Pokemon Go is a game that needs lots of constant maintainance, which goes against pretty much everything you've been pointing out with saving resources. Secondly, Pokemon Go is a third party game, with Nintendo's share being "pocket change" in relation to parties that are actually involved.

What you need to look, is Super Mario Run; that's a game that represents Nintendo's mobile strategy. Games they put out, are first and foremost ads Nintendo is able to monetise.

A model with better portability is the one that's supposed to replace 3DS. However, it's market that decides.


Pokemon Go is maintained by another company so again you're not debunking anything here as Nintendo don't need to focus on it, it's generating constant money while advertizing a key franchise. Pokemon is a first party IP don't give me non of that third party nonsense because that doesn't fly here, Nintendo are the ones who initiated the whole venture into mobile.

Pokemon Go is also representative of Nintendo's mobile strategy as seen with the approach to Fire Emblem, nothing you have posted can argue against any of this no matter how many times you try to say SMR.

No Switch has good portability it's the same size as an iPad mini, portability in today's era has changed a lot since the 3DS launched, even phones today are bigger than phones from close to a decade ago. We're in an era where tablets and larger phones are carried around by most people, Switch is a 3DS replacement a more portable model is not needed for that.

That's what Nintendo's been doing since the N64: hire someone to develope their games when Nintendo does not have the resources.

Anyway, you're basically making the same argument everyone was ranting a decade ago, that Nintendo would focus on toys and cartoons "because there's so much money to be made there". Yes, there's money to be made on mobile, like there is on toys and cartoons, but not to an extent it would be a staple for Nintendo like home or handheld consoles.

Fire Emblem apparently does have the traditional "broken game model" , but that also means that maintainence is going to cost resources, that means diminishing returns.

I have and have had lots of different portable devices in the last two and a half decades. Yes, the smartphones are closing in on the 1600 series Nokias, and the likes, but it's also balancing between size and portability. But here's the catch: different people buy different shaped and sized products for the same job. It's fairly easy to sell fairly big devices for women to carry with them, because most of them carry purses anyway. Next are men who wear jackets that have pockets to fit quite large device. But the regular "jeans and T-shirt" guy have hard time carrying any bigger device with them, especially when you already carry one with you. It's no wonder why phone manufacturers were racing in late 90's and early 2000's about who could fit the most functions in smallest device. It was the clamshell phones for their size that made Samsung popular 15-10 years ago.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

padib said:
bdbdbd said:

Because.

Not only the third parties on 3DS, but also indies Nintendo's been warming up with Wii U (and 3DS) and it's likely Nintendo tries to do everything it can to have popular mobile games on Switch.

Honestly, I don't understand what you're saying.

Good. You weren't supposed to. It was to add something to the post you originally replied to. Not only is Nintendo after the third parties on 3DS, but also indies and popular mobile games. Not the AAA industry games.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:

That's what Nintendo's been doing since the N64: hire someone to develope their games when Nintendo does not have the resources.

Anyway, you're basically making the same argument everyone was ranting a decade ago, that Nintendo would focus on toys and cartoons "because there's so much money to be made there". Yes, there's money to be made on mobile, like there is on toys and cartoons, but not to an extent it would be a staple for Nintendo like home or handheld consoles.

Fire Emblem apparently does have the traditional "broken game model" , but that also means that maintainence is going to cost resources, that means diminishing returns.

I have and have had lots of different portable devices in the last two and a half decades. Yes, the smartphones are closing in on the 1600 series Nokias, and the likes, but it's also balancing between size and portability. But here's the catch: different people buy different shaped and sized products for the same job. It's fairly easy to sell fairly big devices for women to carry with them, because most of them carry purses anyway. Next are men who wear jackets that have pockets to fit quite large device. But the regular "jeans and T-shirt" guy have hard time carrying any bigger device with them, especially when you already carry one with you. It's no wonder why phone manufacturers were racing in late 90's and early 2000's about who could fit the most functions in smallest device. It was the clamshell phones for their size that made Samsung popular 15-10 years ago.

I don't think you understand what you're reading and the situation now and back in the N64 days, Nintendo are investors in the third party developers doing their mobile they're not outsourced, these comapanies are near enough first party but operate like second parties working on what Nintendo assigns them to, this is much less of a resource and cost drain because Nintendo gets a much larger share back from what the project makes. All this doesn't matter regardless because you've still not debunked anything I've posted in fact this part of your replay was largely irrelevant because you're bringing in toys and such when that's a different ball park to developing and maintaining two hardware platforms.

Your Fire Emblem argument is debunked already by Pokemon Go's amount of money made, maintaining these smaller game also costs much less than maintaining console like games.

Again portability has changed, the so called jeans and T-shirt people you're touting don't have any problem carrying around Tablets or small bags or cases specifically to carry them, we're in a different era now and Switch has changed the portable gaming platform to match the era even the more sleek design shows this. I'm willing to bet that most 3DS owners would also have a Tablet as well as many gamers in general