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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - I've changed my stance. Nintendo needs to go 3rd party

fordy on 18 January 2017
Rogerioandrade said:
fordy said:

I agree to disagree on that one. Many I know are willing to spend money toward Nintendo's software only, but their hardware they see as an expensive rip-off.

Well.... if those people are "willing to spend money toward Nintendo´s software ONLY"... then they should just get a Nintendo console and be happy. hahaha

I just think that, as the market gets more and more "hardcore"-focused, people seem less inclined to have multiple devices today.

It would be interesting if we had some kind of survey about the willingness of PS4/XboxOne owner in buying Nintendo products.

You do realise that's cable company level douchebaggery, right? That's the kind of thing that turns people away.

If there is a survey, they need to outline the differences between whether they'd buy software and hardware, which titles they'd get etc, because it all makes a difference. People willing to buy only one or two Nintendo titles aren't going to pay for a new console for the privilege.



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fordy on 18 January 2017
Hapuc12 said:
fordy said:

Japan's userbase for portables has been shrinking for some time now. Unless there's a resurgence in portables (which probably wouldn't happen until smartphone companies got serious with courting 3rd parties), I don't see it happening.

40M is the absolute minimum to be considered any kind of success. Anything lower is a failure. Why? Because Nintendo would have destoryed one mediocre market and one good market to make one madiocre market total. 

Japanese handheld market is shrinking.

On everything you make money from the start is a succes not only will they be making money from hardware but software and online and accesories and amibos but ok.

It's been stated before, Nintendo make little profit on their hardware in order to promote their base. The real profit is in their software and IP. So tell me, why are you dead set against Nintendo expanding their software base at the expense of a barely profitable hardware base?



bdbdbd on 18 January 2017
fordy said:

Okay, I'm going to make this very simple for you...What would the average return rate be (in number of games) to match the profit of a console? Think very hard now, because anybody who thinks that the majority of cash from a console with several games is on the console, are just playing with themselves. Even at a profit, Nintendo keeps their hardware prices minimal. It's why the WiiU never got a price cut; there wasn't any more to cut. 

No, you tell me. You obviously have some sort of "business model" in mind you think Nintendo is currently using, and another "business model" you think they should be using instead. I mean, we need to know what are the costs associated and how would the cost structure change if Nintendo would go 3rd party? How and where would the profit come from? What are Nintendo's strategic goals? What they should be on your business model? How would your business model be better to accomplish these goals? What timeframe goals ate we talking about? What is the risk vs. reward? 

Unless point out the above, you could as well suggest Nintendo to bank on a leprechaun to appear and use his magic to make Nintendo the only company to control the global trade.

Renna Hazel said:

I agree, I'm not a fan of the original Wiimote for two reasons. It didn't have enough buttons and the motion controls were not accurate (waggling the control was just a cumbersome way of pressing a button). In turn, I was turned off by things like Wii Sports and the sword controls for Twilight Princess. However I do think Motion + did a much better job. Wii Sports Resort and the sword controls in Skyward Sword were a huge improvement. Lack of buttons was still an issue, and odd commands were mapped to motion controls as a result, but I thought Nintendo was on the right path with the tech, then they dropped it for the gamepad :(

I really liked IR aiming on all of the Wiimote and I feel it's far superior to using an analog stick. My hope is that with the joycons (which now have a full set of buttons) I'll be able to use them Wii style (split joycons) and be able to use the gyro controls on the right joycon to mimick IR aiming. If I can have Zelda and Splatoon with normal controller inputs plus IR aiming, that would be fantastic. If not, I'll probably just opt for a pro controller and wonder why Nintendo didn't do something so obvious. 

I think Wii Remote was better than WR Plus, largely because of its simplicity. However, just tacking it on for no reason whatsoever, what you saw in a lot of games, wasn't really the right way to use it. The controls and software should be designed to take advantage of each other.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

fordy on 18 January 2017
Renna Hazel said:
fordy said:

It doesn't matter, because games that utilise motion controls require a non-motion option for situations when the joycons are in the system. The Switch's flexibility with this proves that motion controls can't be mandatory for any given title.

I'll agree to disagree on MotionPlus; it really could have done with a bit more tinkering. Case in point, a lot of frustrating points in Skyward sowrd where a MotionPlus can be responsible for you having to repeat a part over and over again.

Well it does matter, this way, no matter what controls you use, they have a setup for you. Had the console came with something like the Wiimote, you'd have an issue of some games ignoring the pro controller. If you bundled it with just the pro controller (without motion), you would have games ignoring the joycons. I think it's much better this way as I prefer traditional controls for some games and limited motion controls in others. 

As for Skyward Sword, the sword controls were great, and far more accurate than Twilight Princess. The motions controls for just about everything else were really annoying, but I fault the development team more than the controller for that. 

Tell me, was Microsoft including the Kinect with the Xbox One a good idea? Why or why not?

I have good first hand experience with this, considering I completed it last Monday. When the controls work, they work well. The problem is that the MotionPlus is only roughly 80% accurate, and that doesn't work for areas where quick actions are needed, like the Lanayru Gorge part.



fordy on 18 January 2017
SpokenTruth said:
So they should go 3rd party because their hardware no longer interests you?

What about the people still interested in their hardware?

The 15% gamer base?



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Baddman on 18 January 2017

-_- man every time a new system is releasing I am reminded why I don't frequent them ..like really if I say what I'm thinking I'll probably get banned



onionberry on 18 January 2017
fordy said:
SpokenTruth said:
So they should go 3rd party because their hardware no longer interests you?

What about the people still interested in their hardware?

The 15% gamer base?

15 is a good quantity because the gamer base is PC,PS4,XBOX,Mobile,Nintendo

some companies would kill for that  15%



potato_hamster on 18 January 2017
Hapuc12 said:
potato_hamster said:

Have you ever heard of the phrase "research and development". If not, learn it, and know it. It could take Nintendo years to recoup the costs of developing the Switch before they ever see an actual profit from it.

Also, shareholders don't care about making any profit, they care about maximizing profit. Nintendo is beholden to it's shareholders. They have to do better than just make money, they need to make as much money as possible.

Nooooooo a company that is out to make as much money as possible i need to research that.

Yes that's why they went with cheaper alternative then high end to not take them years to recoup the money they invest and it totaly is not true that they will make money from software and other stuff but only hardware the way you are going,and in the end they still make money from hardware.

But hey you did the research making money first day is not profitable.

What are you getting on with? The cost of the hardware itself is not directly related to the cost needed to develop that hardware. By your logic the PS4 Pro cost just as much R&D to develop it as it did the original PS4 because they both have the same price tag. This is of course ridiculous.

Nintendo spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing the technology in the switch, refining it, getting them mass produced etc. Then there's the cost that goes into the hardware itself, the cost that goes into developing the games, the amiibo etc. That means that for this whole Project NX, Nintendo currently sits at negative say, 350 million for the cost of the development, and manufacturing the release consoles, the games, the controllers accessories etc.

Nintendo isn't going to make that 350 million back on launch day. It's going to take them years to chip away at that cost while investing in other games, hardware revisions, firmware updates, etc that are also adding to the cost of the Switch's development and maintenance.



Hapuc12 on 18 January 2017
fordy said:
Hapuc12 said:

Japanese handheld market is shrinking.

On everything you make money from the start is a succes not only will they be making money from hardware but software and online and accesories and amibos but ok.

It's been stated before, Nintendo make little profit on their hardware in order to promote their base. The real profit is in their software and IP. So tell me, why are you dead set against Nintendo expanding their software base at the expense of a barely profitable hardware base?

You do know that PS4/Xbox sales all come from third party just a little from Hardware

I am deadset Nintendo to not expand there base is because.

1 Competition:Everything relies on competition,no competition no industry to expand.

2 Broken/Expensive games:Without the first reason there would be no incentive to make amazing games and try new things because there would be no "first reason"

3: Jobs/Sectors that will be lost:Nintendo will have to fire of shit ton of people and close a lot of studios which would be terrible.

Nintendo has there own Software,hardware,accesories,amibos etc etc to make,and they have incentive to keep there software on there own hardware.

Uncharted 4 proved that exclusives are amazing if they are bundled right and  boom revenue 500 mil revenue to be precise.



Renna Hazel on 18 January 2017
fordy said:
Renna Hazel said:

Well it does matter, this way, no matter what controls you use, they have a setup for you. Had the console came with something like the Wiimote, you'd have an issue of some games ignoring the pro controller. If you bundled it with just the pro controller (without motion), you would have games ignoring the joycons. I think it's much better this way as I prefer traditional controls for some games and limited motion controls in others. 

As for Skyward Sword, the sword controls were great, and far more accurate than Twilight Princess. The motions controls for just about everything else were really annoying, but I fault the development team more than the controller for that. 

Tell me, was Microsoft including the Kinect with the Xbox One a good idea? Why or why not?

I have good first hand experience with this, considering I completed it last Monday. When the controls work, they work well. The problem is that the MotionPlus is only roughly 80% accurate, and that doesn't work for areas where quick actions are needed, like the Lanayru Gorge part.

I don't think MS should have included Kinect. The difference here is that Kinect is an entirely different device. It didn't replace a traditional controller, they had to include both Kinect and a controller. Kinect was also sold for 150 dollars stand alone. The joycons ARE the controllers. If you don't include them, you don't include a controller. 

A better comparison would be the PS4, which also includes gyro controls as part of it's controller. This is the standard PS4 controller, Kinect is not the standard XBO controller.