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Forums - Politics Discussion - Man celebrating vote to repeal Obamacare learns he is on Obamacare

Safiir on 11 January 2017
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Safiir said:

At the bolded - Yeah, that remains to be seen. 

Well, honestly, it actually doesn't, because we can't see an alternate reality where Hillary won. Regardless of how good or bad Trump turns out to be, people will argue 'til they're blue in the face about how Hillary would've been better or worse. So... No, it doesn't actually remain to be seen. A choice was made, and we'll see the results of that choice. We will not see whether Hillary was the greater evil or not, though my personal conviction that she was is strong.

You're counting on the fact that he can't possibly make something of cataclysmic proportions. Like start a nuclear war or bancrupt the country or something else I can't even imagine. That would make him the worst choice since it can't possibly be any worse. I'm not saying it will happen or that it's even likely to happen. But with the brexit and a Trump presidency...hell I'm ready to believe anything is possible.



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deskpro2k3 on 11 January 2017
Azuren said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

c'mon man, not gonna comment on speculations, but can we stick to the topic, kthxbye.

It was on topic because you made it about juvenile "crowd questioning". I only pointed out that you can get nearly any desired effect by cutting together eight hours of public questioning. 

It could be 5mins or just 7 people., but the point being those questioned were ignorant when it comes to ACA/Obamacare just like that unfortunate fellow on facebook.



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Peh on 11 January 2017
bunchanumbers said:
LadyJasmine said:
The issue is with Obamacare is that it wont work in the long term as it has mostly older and sick people signing up while young people fail to enrol in the plan as they rather pay the penalty and think rather naively they won't get sick.

As a result, insurance companies move out of Obamacare and in the end it will likely require greater government subsidies and cost to keep premiums low.

The real problem is that healthcare is a for profit business. It needs to be wiped out and started out from scratch as a governmental free service for everyone instead of a for profit clusterf*** that leaves people in debt or in the grave.

Problem is they have to take out the existing system and they have lobbyists who will fight tooth and nail to keep the old system.

That's the main issue here. How to make the most profit out of people. They don't care about you, they care about your money. 

I don't know if someone had seen the movie "sicko". That one was made before obamacare came into existence and if that is true what was shown in the movie, then the healthcare system was even worst than anything before. If you got sick and had no insurance, you were fucked. You can try to get cured and pay the debt of the bills for the rest of your live or end it with a bullet to the head if you are poor. 

20 to 30 million people got a heath insurance now and can be taken care of when they are sick. That's something great I think. 

 

I mean, they call themself a christian country, but spit on the sick. Jesus would be sad.



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Peh on 11 January 2017
bdbdbd said:
Peh said:
It works in germany and other countries. Why can't the us get it to work?

That's because in western European countries the systems were made at the time there still was nationalism with people considering everyone being equal. US have never been nationalistic and it's a country where there are only special interest groups instead of people who are equal. The same reasons that will make systems fail in Europe, prevent them from working in the US.

You mean socialism, not nationalism.



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bdbdbd on 11 January 2017
Peh said:
bdbdbd said:

That's because in western European countries the systems were made at the time there still was nationalism with people considering everyone being equal. US have never been nationalistic and it's a country where there are only special interest groups instead of people who are equal. The same reasons that will make systems fail in Europe, prevent them from working in the US.

You mean socialism, not nationalism.

Nope. I mean nationalism. Historically speaking, you could go on to say that social democracy is a result of nationalism. 



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Lawlight on 11 January 2017

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Mr Puggsly on 11 January 2017
Faust said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Its wealth redistribution. Some pay more so others can get it free.

Its admittedly broken by our presidentt and Bill Clinton.

 

Either republicans try to create something that works or democrats try again in the future.

In the meantime let's get over 30,000 people dying every year for the lack of health care.  Yeap, sound terrific. 

If it makes you feel better plenty of people with insurance die as well. I don't know where this 30K number comes from, but I suspect its misleading.

I support some sort of socialized healthcare, its a direction that seems inevitable, but we have to accept Obama's solution was bad. I sincerely hope republicans come up with something better.



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Mr Puggsly on 11 January 2017
DevilRising said:
Lawlight said:
Isn't Obamacare considered a failure by everyone?


It isn't perfect by any means, and wasn't the full step we actually needed. In fact, the worst part about the ACA was introduced by a Republican, if I'm remembering correctly, and that was the stipulation that now says everyone HAS to have some kind of insurance, or they get penalized. That never should have gone in. Punishing poor people who already can't afford healthcare, by charning them money for NOT having insurance, is sadistic.

It's hilarious to me that so many idiots refer to the ACA as "Socialism", when it's hte most Capitalist thing going. The biggest winner of Obamacare, outside of not being able to exclude people anymore, was the insurance industry.

It was socialist in the sense they were forcing people to pay for insurance and have high premiums to cover those who will be getting it for free. The penalties for not having insurance is part of that, forcing all of us to pay in.

I was uninsured for part of the year so I may have to pay a few hundred dollars. Unless Trump can maigcially make that not possible...



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Mr Puggsly on 11 January 2017
bunchanumbers said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Fair enough, many dems are out of touch. That's the primary reason they've lost elections recently.

But if you wanna blame voter supression... well I guess that's easier to do than admitting dems have made mistakes.

No. There were plenty of reasons why things turned out including proven meddling from another country, fake news being disseminated, the questionable timing of Comey concerning emails that they did not have warrants for, and influence from Rudy on the FBI.Hillary not doing basic rallying of her base was bad, but there were plenty of other factors that hurt.

But this conversation and thread isn't about the election. Frankly I'm tired of talking about it and its always conservatives bringing it up. Time to turn the page.

If Russia had any involvment it was just showing corruption. Trump had to deal with a lot of fake news, it was usually attacking him. FBI had to investigate the emails.

Frankly, the election was an uphill battle for both. Obama beat Hillary primarily because he attacked her record, Trump did as well. Many dems didn't even want her and feel Bernie got screwed. While Trump had to fight against the media treating him as the new Hitler, even his supporters got attacked (the deplorables).

Lets just not pretend Trump had it easy. We all thought Hillary had this in spite of everything.



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bunchanumbers on 11 January 2017
Mr Puggsly said:
bunchanumbers said:

No. There were plenty of reasons why things turned out including proven meddling from another country, fake news being disseminated, the questionable timing of Comey concerning emails that they did not have warrants for, and influence from Rudy on the FBI.Hillary not doing basic rallying of her base was bad, but there were plenty of other factors that hurt.

But this conversation and thread isn't about the election. Frankly I'm tired of talking about it and its always conservatives bringing it up. Time to turn the page.

If Russia had any involvment it was just showing corruption. Trump had to deal with a lot of fake news, it was usually attacking him. FBI had to investigate the emails.

Frankly, the election was an uphill battle for both. Obama beat Hillary primarily because he attacked her record, Trump did as well. Many dems didn't even want her and feel Bernie got screwed. While Trump had to fight against the media treating him as the new Hitler, even his supporters got attacked (the deplorables).

Lets just not pretend Trump had it easy. We all thought Hillary had this in spite of everything.

Concerning the election, I'm done talking about it. Its not even the subject here.