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Forums - Nintendo - Will Western 3rd Party Games Ever Sell Well On Nintendo Platforms?

 

Well Will They?

Yes 15 15.96%
 
No 27 28.72%
 
It depends 50 53.19%
 
Other, comment below 2 2.13%
 
Total:94
GoOnKid said:
Soundwave said:

You know what else is fun? Diversity of games. When you just piss away entire genres like that, that's not creating "more fun" for the consumer. 

Actually the forces inside Nintendo that pushed Nintendo towards a more kid-centric design should have been fired. Hiroshi Yamauchi was so angry at his son in law Minoru Arakawa during the early part of the SNES/Genesis wars that he publically ripped his own son-in-law in Japanese newspapers, saying Arakawa had allowed Sega to paint Nintendo as a "child's toy". 

Arakawa responded by greenlighting games like Killer Instinct and allowing blood in Mortal Kombat 2, and lo and behold the SNES outsold the Genesis after that in the US. 

IMO, Miyamoto and his ilk were allowed to gain too much power over Nintendo's management and pushed Nintendo into this narrow, brain-dead direction, I bet heavily that Miyamoto was also front and center in insisting CD-ROM not be in the N64 because he wanted a system to cater to his creative fetishes rather than what was best for Nintendo as a whole. 

That's what happens went you let the inmates run the aslyum. Unforuntaely I think Yamauchi gave Miyamoto and that certain group carte blanche to do as they please and they basically ran Nintendo's console division into the gutter. Miyamoto should've stuck to making games. Once he was allowed to have lots of input into hardware/company decisions, that became a big problem. That's what I think happened, towards the mid-1990s, Yamauchi who was geting closer to retirement decided to let Miyamoto and company have way more sway over the business side of the company and it quickly went to shit. 

These anecdotes hold low value because it was Yamauchi himself who was in charge when the Gamecube launched. He decided to go that route.

Soundwave, you are very passionate about Nintendo's wrong decisions in the past, but in all honesty and with no intentions to insult you, could you please stop downtalking them so much? Expressed in internet slang: I'm offended by this! You may not even do it on purpose and it might be your way of talking but I would really appreciate if you could use less negative expressions like "pissing away, brain-dead direction, his creative fetishes, letting the inmates run the asylum, went to shit". Thanks in advance.

Yamauchi had started to step back by the time GameCube went into development, he wasn't as actively involved as by the late 1990s he was preparing to step down as president. 

I don't really think I need to censor my opinions. IMO, Miyamoto was selfish and put himself ahead of Nintendo as a business, and the company suffered horribly as a result. 

He's a great game designer but had no business interjecting himself into the company's decisions like that, at best the only thing he should have been allowed to influence is the N64 having a cartridge slot maybe in lieu of the RAM Expansion Slot. But he or other Nintendo designers should not have had any sway in pushing for CD-ROM to be axed from the N64 entirely. 

Anyone who convinced Yamauchi of that was an idiot. Like sorry, I don't know how else to put it. Just because Wily Wonka is great at making chocolates doesn't mean you put him in charge of the company's accounting division and let him do the tax returns. It's a tough industry, these mistakes haunt Nintendo to this very day. 

They had something wonderful with the NES/SNES, they really did, wonderful 1st party games, terrific 3rd party support, tremendous 2nd party support from Rare, Squaresoft, and Enix effectively, and they completely destroyed this, and for what? Because Miyamoto didn't like CDs in large part. It's a horrible way for a small group of people to put themselves ahead of the enitre company's well-being. 



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So after not finding any common ground on this subject on PlayerEssense's Youtube video response, as most people didn't seem to share your views, your now looking to have your views validated by all the pro-Sony, mainly Nintendo-bashing users that are active here, did I get that right?



bunchanumbers said:
Nintendo needs to make NOA a thing again and have another maverick like Howard Lincoln. He brought in Rareware and Retro, He made deals to get EA games on the N64 and he was ruthless about protecting Nintendo and their interests. After Iwata neutered NOA it has been a mess. I hope that Kimishima will realize that they need to be a global brand again and not just quirky Japanese games.

I think that time period was necessary for Nintendo though. That time when Iwata lead them. But now, I agree. Kimishima needs to go back to cut throat Nintendo, the Yamauchi Nintendo,



thomvrell said:
So after not finding any common ground on this subject on PlayerEssense's Youtube video response, as most people didn't seem to share your views, your now looking to have your views validated by all the pro-Sony, mainly Nintendo-bashing users that are active here, did I get that right?

I don't care that those people don't share my views. Vgchartz is comprised of mostly Nintendo fans...if you knew anything about the site. You just strolled up on in here like you knew what was going on and you think you know the site like that? lol, get lost dude. I'm sorry I can't be a Nintendo fan in denial. 



Soundwave said:

Yamauchi had started to step back by the time GameCube went into development, he wasn't as actively involved as by the late 1990s he was preparing to step down as president. 

I don't really think I need to censor my opinions. IMO, Miyamoto was selfish and put himself ahead of Nintendo as a business, and the company suffered horribly as a result. 

He's a great game designer but had no business interjecting himself into the company's decisions like that, at best the only thing he should have been allowed to influence is the N64 having a cartridge slot maybe in lieu of the RAM Expansion Slot. But he or other Nintendo designers should not have had any sway in pushing for CD-ROM to be axed from the N64 entirely. 

Anyone who convinced Yamauchi of that was an idiot. Like sorry, I don't know how else to put it. Just because Wily Wonka is great at making chocolates doesn't mean you put him in charge of the company's accounting division and let him do the tax returns. It's a tough industry, these mistakes haunt Nintendo to this very day. 

That's your way of seeing it. I see it differently and think it's unfair to blame everything on him. And at the end of the day, nothing happens.

Nintendo always thought that software and hardware go hand in hand, that a good game can only be as good as the hardware allows it to be and vice versa. From this point of view, it made sense to have Miyamoto take decisions. Yes, he fucked up stuff. But he also made great decisions.

By the way, the 64DD used to be a thing. So saying they pushed for CD-ROM to be axed from the N64 entirely is wrong. At least they tried.



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As a Nintendo fan there aren't a lot of other games that would appeal to me. At the moment the only third party games I'd buy at launch are the NHL games (as a like hockey), some license titles (Transformers, DC and Marvel, some anime), and Kingdom Hearts titles, and possibly Overwatch.

I have tried other properties recently like Mega Man, Bravely Default, Rayman Legends, and Ace Attorney, but that was due to them being on sale.

I just am not interested in shooters and I only have time for so many RPGS.

Am I against trying them, no. I was tempted by some of the more regarded Ubisoft titles during the sale I got Rayman in. However I have no interest in grabbing them at full price.

Pokemon is worth it at full price. Mario is. Zelda is. Smash is. Star Fox Zero is. Splatoon is. I do not have that feeling about a lot of the third party titles.

Often that is because of the gimping. On Wii I had both Marvel Ultimate Alliances. The first was, if less pretty, played well like it's stronger brethren. The second.....yeah that was lazy incarnate. It was shorter than the other version, the story was abridge like a third rate abr series, and the graphics had no upgraded since the first version, years ago.

People talk about how third parties do not try. Watch Dogs being late, Mass Effect 3 releasing late and against the complete collection elsewhere, that above M Ultimate bit.....frankly if they aren't going to try they don't deserve pity points for failure.

And Rayman was originally a Wii U exclusive, so who knows how well it would have sold if it had not been delayed and ported around. Even with what happened to it it still sold .66 million, outselling by VG numbers for the 360, PS3, and XBox1. Only the Ps4 beats it.

Maybe it would have done better than some ugly game with zombies Ubisoft overspent on



The Democratic Nintendo fan....is that a paradox? I'm fond of one of the more conservative companies in the industry, but I vote Liberally and view myself that way 90% of the time?

No, I've used this site on and off for years, and it's now much more skewed towards what I stated. As others have stated before on this site, any good Nintendo news is downplayed while any negative news is overblown, MOSTLY by individuals that have no interest in ever buying any of their products again. No one's asking you to be a fan in denial here, and the fact that your defending IGN's slanted points, while most other disagree with them must make everyone else a fan in denial by your logic. Did I set off a trigger by pointing out that you might have wanted your opinion validated by a different audience?



GoOnKid said:
Soundwave said:

Yamauchi had started to step back by the time GameCube went into development, he wasn't as actively involved as by the late 1990s he was preparing to step down as president. 

I don't really think I need to censor my opinions. IMO, Miyamoto was selfish and put himself ahead of Nintendo as a business, and the company suffered horribly as a result. 

He's a great game designer but had no business interjecting himself into the company's decisions like that, at best the only thing he should have been allowed to influence is the N64 having a cartridge slot maybe in lieu of the RAM Expansion Slot. But he or other Nintendo designers should not have had any sway in pushing for CD-ROM to be axed from the N64 entirely. 

Anyone who convinced Yamauchi of that was an idiot. Like sorry, I don't know how else to put it. Just because Wily Wonka is great at making chocolates doesn't mean you put him in charge of the company's accounting division and let him do the tax returns. It's a tough industry, these mistakes haunt Nintendo to this very day. 

That's your way of seeing it. I see it differently and think it's unfair to blame everything on him. And at the end of the day, nothing happens.

Nintendo always thought that software and hardware go hand in hand, that a good game can only be as good as the hardware allows it to be and vice versa. From this point of view, it made sense to have Miyamoto take decisions. Yes, he fucked up stuff. But he also made great decisions.

By the way, the 64DD used to be a thing. So saying they pushed for CD-ROM to be axed from the N64 entirely is wrong. At least they tried.

Which great hardware decision had Miyamoto really made? 

He's a great game designer on his *own* games, but that doesn't mean he knows jack all about anything else, quite honestly a lot of the stuff he interjects himself into outside of developing his own games turns out terribly (ie: forcing Dinosaur Planet to become Star Fox Adventures, interjecting into the Paper Mario franchise, trying to get the Splatoon designers to use Mario characters instead of original characters, crapping on DMA Design for wanting to make a violent open world game ... they would later break from Nintendo and make Grand Theft Auto, you might have heard of it, etc. etc.). Miyamoto for example also had nothing to do with the Wiimote (that was invented by an American guy who actually tried to sell it first to Sony and then MS). But Miyamoto did actively push the development of the Wii U tablet and the aysmmetric gameplay is largely his idea. 

In fact I think a big reason why Nintendo continued to refuse to ditch the Wii U tablet and make a cheaper Wii U was primarily becuase it would be seen as shaming Mr. Miyamoto, which is a no no in Japanese culture. So instead of giving the system a second shot, they purposely allowed it to drown to death and placated Miyamoto by letting him make "new games that would show off the uniqueness of the controller". These games were Star Fox 0, Project: Giant Robot, Project: Guard ... all three of which had frosty E3 receptions and were painfully forced. 

He's a great, great game designer when he's just making games without any of the stupid agendas, but IMO he, nor any of Nintendo's other game designers should have had sway over Nintenod's business decisions. They are not qualified businessmen and made selfish decisions on the basis of their own desires for their own games, but in doing so, they damanged Nintendo as a company by putting themselves above the company's over all well being. 



thomvrell said:

No, I've used this site on and off for years, and it's now much more skewed towards what I stated. As others have stated before on this site, any good Nintendo news is downplayed while any negative news is overblown, MOSTLY by individuals that have no interest in ever buying any of their products again. No one's asking you to be a fan in denial here, and the fact that your defending IGN's slanted points, while most other disagree with them must make everyone else a fan in denial by your logic. Did I set off a trigger by pointing out that you might have wanted your opinion validated by a different audience?

I'm not defending IGNs points. I'm defending Brian's points because like me, we he loves Nintendo but he's not in denial. He knows the history of what's been happening with Nintendo. This site again, is mostly comprised of Nintendo fans. There have been many poles that were made over the 4 years I've been here that have Nintendo as the favorite in this site. It had nothing to do with bashing or validating anything. It's called having a discussion with valid points, not based on "feelings" and a few old facts. I've been here much longer than you have and I've had conversations similar to this waaaaaay before this. Think whatever you want, all I'm saying is you can't say Nintendo fans will continue to buy AAA western games based off of Call of Duty Wii sales, Rayman, and Just Dance. That's a pitiful argument.



Ljink96 said:
bunchanumbers said:
Nintendo needs to make NOA a thing again and have another maverick like Howard Lincoln. He brought in Rareware and Retro, He made deals to get EA games on the N64 and he was ruthless about protecting Nintendo and their interests. After Iwata neutered NOA it has been a mess. I hope that Kimishima will realize that they need to be a global brand again and not just quirky Japanese games.

I think that time period was necessary for Nintendo though. That time when Iwata lead them. But now, I agree. Kimishima needs to go back to cut throat Nintendo, the Yamauchi Nintendo,

It worked for a little while but it pretty much shattered 3rd party relationships in the west. Howard Lincoln had it figured out. He even had exclusive baseball game deals to get Ken Griffey Jr Baseball on N64. Hell Madden 64 didn't even have the NFL license and EA still made it happen. Nintendo doesn't do anything like this anymore and it is to the detriment of the company and consumer confidence. Yes Wii was a hit and yes DS were miracles. But they shouldn't have sacrificed NA deals that kept the N64 afloat and kept the GCN in western support.

I think neutering NOA was the worst thing Iwata did.