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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Playing Nier Automata makes me sad for the sad state of combat in Western games

LipeJJ said:
Trunkin said:
I really didn't think the combat in phe Witcher 3 was all that different from Dark Souls. Combat doesn't have to look flashy to be intensely satisfying and rewarding. More Automata is a Platinum game, and therefore an entirely different animal.

Care to elaborate?

They're just very similar on a basic level to me. In the Witcher 3, you have a player character with two basic forms of attack, strong and slow, or fast and weak, sound familiar? In both games you will be badly punished if you attemp to wail on an enemy without regarding their attack stance and positioning. Both games have enemies that telegraph their attacks, while expecting you to wait for an opening before counterattacking, and both games are rather dodge/roll focused, though I feel blocking in W3 is basically useless, whereas it's essential against a lot of enemies in DS. They both even have magic and bombs, though their uses vary quite a bit, and similar strategies can sometimes be employed in both games against bosses.

W3 does differ from DS in controls and design, though. I think of it like a sort of Dark Souls lite. DS doesn't hold your hand whatsoever when it comes to positioning. If you use a strong attack, your character will use a strong attack, regardless of where the enemy is in relation to you. Any lunge attacks will have to be done manually. In W3 on the other hand, Geralt lunges towards the nearest enemy if you're not within range, and the downtime after your attacks is less punishing. Hugging enemies to slip behind them for an easy backstab is a thing in Dark Souls. It doesn't work in The Witcher. Bunch of other differences that make DS feel both more punishing and rewarding than W3, not the least of which is superior boss design, but I'm too lazy to get into them now, and I think I've made my point anyway.

That said, I'm not a Souls veteran like Turkish here. I've only played the first game!



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WC4Life said:
This sad state of combat in western games has been known for decades.
How about character design in western games, a little generic...anyone else noticed?

Not really. The game are just more grounded. So, not a lot of characters will anime hair, etc.



Agree+ jesus hell that music in nier omg!!!!!



 

My youtube gaming page.

http://www.youtube.com/user/klaudkil

This is definitely one of the best console exclusives of 2017. Super addition to the awesome line up. A very unique title by today's standards.



WC4Life said:
This sad state of combat in western games has been known for decades.
How about character design in western games, a little generic...anyone else noticed?

I think realistic is a better term than generic. Which I am fine with, I'd rather have realistic looking characters than 99.9% of the stuff I see in Japanese games.

OT, feels like you're comparing vastly different game styles in the OP, but I don't mind western combat design. It's more strategic imho, less button mashy.



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Saying something like 'A makes me feel bad for B" will always make fans of the latter become defensive and attack the former.

The awesomeness of Marvel makes me feel bad for DC.

That statement will make people who actually enjoyed both suddenly find fault in one. It's a reflex. Now I'm wanting to replay the demo just to find flaws in it so I can win some argument I never even considered.

Well played, sir.



Kerotan said:
This is definitely one of the best console exclusives of 2017. Super addition to the awesome line up. A very unique title by today's standards.

....Nier is coming out on PC



Turkish said:

For any sword/melee based combat, even the best the West has to offer (thinking Witcher 3, Skyrim, AssCreed etc) have combat which just feel awful and not much better than the worst euro jank stuff. They're not better than games like Lords of Fallen, Bound By Flame or Piranha Byte games etc.

I mean you look 10 seconds at this https://youtu.be/tpjc5j_FT4A?t=338

and then compare it with Witcher 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5pycqmx0ec

and you're not gonna say the latter is that much better, or even that much different at all in terms of style.

but compare them to Nier Automata https://youtu.be/19c94qHANlc?t=958

and there's a clear difference.

Combat from Western games feel recycled from each other, even the prototype of the cancelled Flash game looked like the same scripted and automated combat I've seen a dozen times.

Altough they've mastered the FPS and TPS I think Western devs need a lesson in sword based/melee combat mechanics and philosophy from the top devs in Japan.

Why are you comparing action RPG's to an Action hack n slash ? Thats like saying RPG's and Arcade games should be played in the same fashion. Platinum has never made an action rpg, so we shall see how platinum handles this Scalebound. I think what you mean to say is that you prefer  arcade style hack n slash/ beat em up style gameplay to action rpg's.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Kerotan said:
This is definitely one of the best console exclusives of 2017. Super addition to the awesome line up. A very unique title by today's standards.

....Nier is coming out on PC

Read my post again 



Nier Automata and Nioh was the best demos for ps4 and looks they going to be super wnen they release. Im very surprise about both developers and im not surprise at all about the states of combat on western games
Japanese players has use to be on that intense combat system that both games has, when western games has choose to be simple and easy