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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Hypothesis: Switch using checker board? Using FP16?

Well, Im suposing the true switch specs are the low clock settings, where the docked mode is estimated to run 393Gigaflops and 150GFlops on the portable mode. So, would be hard to explain the excitment about power from 3rdy party developers about switch, that would be able to run the current engines and easy port from every AAA game. There would be a 'magic' involved.

Recently, Sony showed a 4k convincing solution using 2 1080 images on ps4 pro. So, it dont need to render a 4k image, just 2 1080p, that is required kind of half processing power.

So, in order to achieve 720p and 1080p on 150 and 393 gflops machines respectivelly, switch would use the same PS4 pro solution?

I mean, the portable mode would have to render only two 360p screens(in comparison, 3DS renders 3 240p...), and docked two 540p to achieve 720p and 1080p convincing images respectivelly. The power requirements would be much lower(kind of half). A unreal 4 engine render quality (with some compromises) at really low resolution should be possible with a pretty good CPU, and low end GPU(i assume), and seems that switch is that. The rest, the checker board could handle. Well, if not checker board, another fast supersampling method...

 

The only other possibility, is using 16FP operations instead of 32FP on the GPU. The new tegra architectures are capable of that by doubling the flops performance. If precision is enough on GPU operations, why not? Or maybe, a low level solution where NVIDIA developed a precision dependent operation, that for developers the values are 32FP, but in low level, the variables that dont use all the precision would run at 16FP...

 

Well, Im brainstorming here. Any other ideas for the black magic on the switch?



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Checkerboard rendering is specifically developed by AMD/Sony and it is not an industry wide standard either since only one GPU has it and it's in the Playstation 4 Pro. I doubt the Switch has it ... 

Double rate FP16 is almost a certainty at this point ...



I think developers are excited for the Switch because they can easily port and sell their 7th gen games on it. Games like Mass Effect on the go could be exciting for many.



KLXVER said:
I think developers are excited for the Switch because they can easily port and sell their 7th gen games on it. Games like Mass Effect on the go could be exciting for many.

Agreed I think you'll see a fair number of PS3/360 era ports. 



I am just glad that Nintendo will be able to focus on one device. Then it will be first party games haven on the go. On Topic, I think it will have some it's own scaling technique . But it's not the same with PS4 technique.



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* Checkerboard isn't happening.

* Checkerboard is not as good as a native 4k image.

* Double Rate FP16 is pretty much confirmed.

* FP16 is lower quality than FP32.

* FP32 calculations are not not being converted into FP16. That would be counterproductive.

* There is still more to performance than flops, people need to stop focusing on that single *specific* number and ignoring the rest of the system.

* Developers are still free to use frame reconstruction to make a "fake" higher resolution image. Which is what Quantum Break did.

* Super Sampling will likely not happen.

* The Switch is likely going to be a 720P or lower device for games that push hardware.

* The Switch's performance is still between the Wii U and Xbox One. That hasn't changed.

There. I think I covered it all?



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
* Checkerboard isn't happening.

* Checkerboard is not as good as a native 4k image.

* Double Rate FP16 is pretty much confirmed.

* FP16 is lower quality than FP32.

* FP32 calculations are not not being converted into FP16. That would be counterproductive.

* There is still more to performance than flops, people need to stop focusing on that single *specific* number and ignoring the rest of the system.

* Developers are still free to use frame reconstruction to make a "fake" higher resolution image. Which is what Quantum Break did.

* Super Sampling will likely not happen.

* The Switch is likely going to be a 720P or lower device for games that push hardware.

* The Switch's performance is still between the Wii U and Xbox One. That hasn't changed.

There. I think I covered it all?

Unless you make a thread about these things people won't even notice, let alone acknowledge it.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:

Unless you make a thread about these things people won't even notice, let alone acknowledge it.

I have never. And will never make a thread.
This stuff has been beaten to death anyway. - The last thing it needs is yet another thread.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
vivster said:

Unless you make a thread about these things people won't even notice, let alone acknowledge it.

I have never. And will never make a thread.
This stuff has been beaten to death anyway. - The last thing it needs is yet another thread.

The only threads I have ever seen are threads spreading fud like this one. A thread about spreading truth for once is certainly not overkill.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Pemalite said:
* Checkerboard isn't happening.
* Checkerboard is not as good as a native 4k image.
But can be good enough considering lower specs. Sony considered that, and marketed as a 4k device.

* Double Rate FP16 is pretty much confirmed.
* FP16 is lower quality than FP32.

In which mean? Lower precision of course.

* FP32 calculations are not not being converted into FP16. That would be counterproductive.
* There is still more to performance than flops, people need to stop focusing on that single *specific* number and ignoring the rest of the system.

I know, but we have to agree that velocity of operations of a GPU play a major role in rendered resolution, the aspect I am considering in this thread. Also, I said that CPU of the switch is good enough, so, Im not considering only the Gflops of the GPU as the total aspect of the system.

* Developers are still free to use frame reconstruction to make a "fake" higher resolution image. Which is what Quantum Break did.
* Super Sampling will likely not happen.
Well, generating higher resolution is super sampling. Some methods are more accurate, other fake. The common state of art super sampling methods, the checker board, the QB fake method, everything that is more than upscaling meant to increase the resolution, so, are all super sampling. Im suggesting that would have a hardware native super sampling method. If developers can do, would be nice if the hardware would make that natively and optimised  in hardware by default.

* The Switch is likely going to be a 720P or lower device for games that push hardware.

A hardware push game could be initial rendered at 540p, 360p, or so, than a resolution increasing method native in hardware would do the rest.

* The Switch's performance is still between the Wii U and Xbox One. That hasn't changed.

Yeah, it woundt change the power of the device. Its a way to show better images from less hardware. Still far from xbox one.

There. I think I covered it all?