spemanig said:
This isn't about me. I have access to any game I want. This is about Nintendo as a business making a successful mass market product. And we already know that Nintendo can make a powerful enough Switch to get multiplats without sacrificing bettery life. Nothing is stopping Nintendo but Nintendo. |
Considering the rumor price is $250 there is a reason for this besdies Nintendo being Nintendo.
spemanig said:
This isn't about me. I have access to any game I want. This is about Nintendo as a business making a successful mass market product. And we already know that Nintendo can make a powerful enough Switch to get multiplats without sacrificing bettery life. Nothing is stopping Nintendo but Nintendo. |
Nintendo can violate the laws of thermal physics if they choose to?
An XBox One at even the newest cutting edge 16nm FinFET process (which consumes way less electricity) still consumes like 60-70 watts electricity.
The upper limit for a portable device is 10 watts total, and even that is probably pushing it, it's likely more like 8 watts.
The Tegra X1 Maxwell is a 20nm chip too, so it's not even as energy efficient as the XBox One is.
It's simply impossible to have XBox One level performance in a device under these constraints today.
Even the Google Pixel C ... a tablet that has the Tegra X1, only runs at 80% clock, and even then it throttles the GPU after 5-10 minutes of continious high end graphics. *10 minutes*. Now try running a game like even Zelda: Breath of the Wild for 3-5 hours continious.
| bunchanumbers said: No Joke. This thing needs to be $149 at launch. Its even weaker than the Tegra X1 it was based on. Just the other day I could have bought a Xbox One S at $229. If Nintendo thinks they can swindle people for $249 then they are crazy. |
You can't compare one-day xmas sale prices to the norm. Hell, 3DS was $99 on black friday but it sales for $140 regular.
Normal prices for base PS4/XBO is $299 with a pack-in.
NS with nothing will likely be $249.
NS bundles with games will likely be around $279~$299.
Considering NS also throws in
- portability
- insane local multiplayer options
- insane controller configurations
- nintendo 1st party games
- all typical portable exclusives
Then you will get the yearly / common 3rd party titles such as madden, fifa, cod, etc.
Facts are
NS is the most powerful portable console to ever hit the market that has any viability to succeed. Its more powerful than a Wii U. Yes, WiiU has more GFs, but not all flops are equal and in this case NS in portable mode is definitely more powerful than WiiU. NS has a better CPU, better/faster RAM and a more capable GPU. Then the NS becomes a home console and gives you a great experience on your big TV.
At $250 this is #DayOne!
Soundwave said:
Nintendo can violate the laws of thermal physics if they choose to? An XBox One at even the newest cutting edge 16nm FinFET process (which consumes way less electricity) still consumes like 60-70 watts electricity. The upper limit for a portable device is 10 watts total, and even that is probably pushing it, it's likely more like 8 watts. The Tegra X1 Maxwell is a 20nm chip too, so it's not even as energy efficient as the XBox One is. It's simply impossible to have XBox One level performance in a device under these constraints today. Even the Google Pixel C ... a tablet that has the Tegra X1, only runs at 80% clock, and even then it throttles the GPU after 5-10 minutes of continious high end graphics. |
Who ever said anything about XBO level performance? I just said "able to get multiplats." I never said anything about them running on par with XBO/PS4. Nothing about what I'm saying "violates the laws of thermal physics." You're being riddiculus.
animegaming said:
Considering the rumor price is $250 there is a reason for this besdies Nintendo being Nintendo. |
Don't see why they couldn't make a device strong enough to get downgraded ports for $250.
spemanig said:
Who ever said anything about XBO level performance? I just said "able to get multiplats." I never said anything about them running on par with XBO/PS4. Nothing about what I'm saying "violates the laws of thermal physics." You're being riddiculus. |
"Able to get multiplats" .... how do you know that is "easy"? It was fun to speculate, but it may well be that it's very difficult to get the performance you are talking about in a portable device.
A Tegra Shield with a full clocked 20nm Tegra X1 consumes almost 20 watts at full tilt (and this chip is well below an XBox One in performance as is), that is simply unworkable in a portable state.
That would kill even a fairly large 5000-6000 MaH battery in like 1 1/2 hours. What you're asking for performance wise I simply don't think is possible.
spemanig said:
Don't see why they couldn't make a device strong enough to get downgraded ports for $250. |
Basically the tech just isn't there yet to get multiplats of PS4 and Xbox One games. Hell Phone's are expesnive the PS4 and Xbox One and they still don't come close in terms of power needed to run games like Battlefield 1.
Show me a portable device that has a decent battery that cost $250 that can run something like Battlefield 1 no problem.
I think basically Nintendo's R&D continued working around the Wii U as a target after the Wii U was completed (remember "absorbing the Wii U").
So their target was always "can we get Wii U performance in a portable so we can bring games like Splatoon to our main audience on handheld".
And Nvidia said "yeah, we got a boat load of these Maxwell Tegra X1 chips that went no where, they can be downclocked and tweaked for your needs and we'll give 'em to you for dirt cheap."
Bingo, bango, bongo ... you got a deal.
spemanig said:
Can you post the link? I can't see that. It's Nintendo's fault that the audience isn't there. Nintendo made their audience. You don't just come onto the console scene and magically get given your audience at random by mythical gaming gods. You cultivate yourown audience with the hardware and software you provide and how you market your platform. That's entirely and solely in Nintendo's control. How does Nintendo convince Rockstar that there's an audience? By building that audience for Rockstar on their platform themselves. By making exclusive marketing deals for multiplatform games who's audiences overlap with Red Dead and by making new IP that are like Red Dead and by getting exclusive third party games who's audiences overlap with Red Dead and by builting hardware that doesn't have too much trouble porting and running games who's audience overlap with Red Dead. When people see ads for games like Red Dead with the Switch logo at the end, when they see eclusive games that remind them of Red Dead and used to appear on other platforms on the Switch, when they see Nintendo making games that are similar to Red Dead on the Switch, and when they see games that resemble Red Dead not shying away from being on the Switch as well as everything else, they'll buy the Switch expecting to buy and play games like Red Dead on the Switch. Or lets be more literal here. 4 steps. 1. Make an exclusive marketing deal with CD Project Red for Cyberpunk (Cyberpunk is just being used as an example and can be swapped out with any game that meets the criteria). The game gets its first proper reveal at the January Switch event, appears at Nintendo's E3 Digital Event, and all ads of the game will feature Switch gameplay on Switch hardware showing off the portability and alway ending with the Switch logo. Do the same thing with 1 or 2 more open world, western, T/M-Rated, AAA TPS/FPS action adventure games they know will be coming to other platforms. Since we're being literal, I'm going to chose Assassin's Creed 2017 and Far Cry 2017. 2. Secure an exclusive, AAA open world, western, T/M-Rated, AAA TPS/FPS action adventure game. It can either be a new IP or established - both have pros and cons. We already know about Beyond Good and Evil, so considering how it's a reboot that's supposed to be grittier, this will likely do. 3. Make a first party, open world, western, T/M-Rated, AAA TPS/FPS action adventure game. They can either be a new IP or reviving an old IP, but it should be made in the west for western sentiments. It can be made by a studio they own, or they can hier a third party studio to do it for them. For this example, I'm going to go with Retro Studios rebooting Star Tropics in the same vein as Uncharted and Tomb Raider. 4. Make the Switch powerful enough to be able to port most AAA multiplats. Doesn't need to be all multiplats, it just needs to be most. It doesn't need to be the best version. It just has to exist and run well enough. That's how. This isn't rocket science, it isn't difficult, and third party developers aren't a charity. It's up to Nintendo and Nintendo alone to make their platform succeed, not third party devs. |
1/2) It is difficult... Cause that sounds like a lot of money. Nintendo doesn't have unlimited money to do all that. According to Pachter in that video, it takes developers 40 million to develop a game that can't be easily ported in his example. So what? Nintendo should give every publisher 40 million? And thats just to make them develop for it. To secure an exclusive from those devs, it could cost 100s of millions cause the publishers will calculate how much they will be missing out on. I don't how you can say it isn't diificult. Third party isn't a chairty but neither is Nintendo... Why do you think there aren't many third party exclusives this gen? Cause they are really expensive...
3) Making first party games in those genres isn't easy either because a) They need to get the devs that know how to do it and b) They need to work to establish them as well as be just as competitive as the big ones and most importantly, c) take the huge risks involved in doing so. If they develop those games, they will be new IPs which will be competing against big named established IPs. If their core audience don't like games like those and don't buy them, than they will have loss after loss in profits. Just because Nintendo could have games like Red dead doesn't mean people will go for the Switch cause Red Dead will still be on the ps4/x1. So while the Switch has games like Red Dead, rockstar will see the sales of Nintendo's attempt and see it not doing very well since we have seen time and time again that Nintendo's audience don't buy Nintendo platforms for games like those and continue with their excuse. Because in order for Nintendo to convince third party that the audience is there, they need to hope that their current audience buys those games otherwise, if those games don't do very well, then Rockstar will say, "yea see, the audience isn't there." If that makes any sense. Cause Nintendo having a game like red dead won't get people red dead people to buy a Switch, they need red dead to be on there but in order for red dead to be on there, the current audience needs to buy Nintendo's version which many people do not buy Nintendo console's for.
4) So basically, not make the Switch at all then and go back to making a traditional console? How do you expect them being able to put x1sh amount of power on a 6 inch tablet for a reasonable price? At most, they could have had 750Gflops and I doubt that still would have been enough for third parties to be able to do direct ports... There comes a certain point where it no longer becomes a port but rather becomes a full development which is the difference between spending 5 million and 40 million. Even at 750Gflops, it most likely wouldn't be enough for third parties. And even if they made a 1+ TF Switch, that would cost what? $400? $450? vs $250 ps4? Sure portable but then what about the battery life? Is it gonna be an hour? How is that portable?
So idk how you can say "This isn't rocket science, it isn't difficult" cause it really is. Nintendo doesn't have unlimited money and the technology that we have today can't do that for a reasonable price. The plan that you are suggesting would be risky as hell and no company in their right mind in Nintendo's situation would do it. Sure, they need to build the audience but also not drive their company to the ground in the process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n50_WSl0MVY
PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850
Shocking but not unexpected from a Nintendo always disappointing since the Wii.
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