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Forums - Politics Discussion - [Update] CIA & FBI Report: Russia did things to help get Trump elected

irstupid said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

 

Now you're basically saying what's the problem if he didn't give an answer.. see how easy you switch gears to help your own rambling?

Let me hit you with some facts, and then we'll stay on topic. he is the first president nominee to refuse to say he'll accept the results. okay? What does that tell you about what he thinks about democracy? Don't even try to sugar-coat that because you might just eat that up too.

Answer that if you will, but I ain't going to listen to any of your hunches or gut feelings on this anymore, this is getting no where.

Remember back in the repulican primaries.

Trump refused to say he would support the nominee. He got huge boos. Everyone else pledged to suppport the future nominee. (Now I agree with Trump. Why should one pledge to support someone, when you don't know who that person will be or their views/ect)

But fast forward to Trump winning the nomination. Plenty of those very same republicans who boo'd him, and even those who pledged to support did the very thing they critiqued him about. They didn't support the nominee. Or in this case Trump.

Fast foward to election time. Trump doesn't promise to accept the results. He gets huge outcry and booing. Fast forward and those same hypocrites are now not accepting the results.

So tell me this. Who is worse. Someone who won't blindly accept an unknown outcome, or people who decry something they later end up doing?

 

I think they accept the results, but not his credibility to run a country, also to put more fuel on the fire, what the CIA brought up to the senate just made the blaze higher.



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Russia helped Trump get elected and they were smart to do so.

Buying Trump probably only cost them a few million dollars and paying for hacking is dirt cheap.

The net result is going to be potentially hundreds of billions of dollars in lifted sanctions and free reign to bully Eastern Europe (and potentially further). It's a great deal for them, they played this whole thing like a fiddle.



Soundwave said:
UnderstatedCornHole said:

You've quoted a source and then modified the language to fit your point of view. 

They said...

Exxon said its “maximum exposure” to loss from these joint ventures was $1 billion. A spokesman from the company said that the figure represented “potential and not actual” losses.

You said they said

Exxon Mobil in particular had been hard hit as they had business contracts with the Russian government. The sanctions cost them $1 billion at least.

 

Trump would be pointing at you right now, so dishonest.

There is more to business than just existing deals, Exxon also was being held back from pursuing future deals in Russia due to sanctions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html?_r=0

"Exxon Mobil has various projects afoot in Russia that are allowed under American sanctions. But others have been ground to a halt by the sanctions, including a deal with the Russian state oil company to explore and pump in Siberia that could be worth tens of billions of dollars.

Russian officials have optimistically called the agreement a $500 billion deal."

 

So please tell me that the Exxon Mobile CEO being named to Secretary of State, who has in the past lobbied for dropping sanctions against Russia, is all just a magical coincidence. 

I'm not disputing the notion that there exists potential motive for abuse of power.

I'm arguing that's all there is. You and a few others here seem to think that potential motive = guilt.

That's a liberal fallacy that I have grown out of, one I do not subscribe to, if it benefits my beliefs or discredits them.



UnderstatedCornHole said:
Soundwave said:

There is more to business than just existing deals, Exxon also was being held back from pursuing future deals in Russia due to sanctions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html?_r=0

"Exxon Mobil has various projects afoot in Russia that are allowed under American sanctions. But others have been ground to a halt by the sanctions, including a deal with the Russian state oil company to explore and pump in Siberia that could be worth tens of billions of dollars.

Russian officials have optimistically called the agreement a $500 billion deal."

 

So please tell me that the Exxon Mobile CEO being named to Secretary of State, who has in the past lobbied for dropping sanctions against Russia, is all just a magical coincidence. 

I'm not disputing the notion that there exists potential motive for abuse of power.

I'm arguing that's all there is. You and a few others here seem to think that potential motive = guilt.

That's a liberal fallacy that I have grown out of, one I do not subscribe to, if it benefits my beliefs or discredits them.

Use some freaking common sense, lol. 

It's not a "liberal fallacy", if Saudi Arabia was doing the same (active hacking Trump's emails and then getting a Secretary of State elected that was three feet up their asshole) there would be large raising of eyebrows on the right and I would AGREE with that too. 

This whole situation is fairly troubling. I notice none of you guys have much to say either when it comes to Trump choosing several high level Goldman Sachs folkes for his cabinet either (including the freaking president of Goldman Sachs), after spending months hammering Trump's opponents for ties to Goldman Sachs. War on elitists my ass. 



deskpro2k3 said:
irstupid said:

Remember back in the repulican primaries.

Trump refused to say he would support the nominee. He got huge boos. Everyone else pledged to suppport the future nominee. (Now I agree with Trump. Why should one pledge to support someone, when you don't know who that person will be or their views/ect)

But fast forward to Trump winning the nomination. Plenty of those very same republicans who boo'd him, and even those who pledged to support did the very thing they critiqued him about. They didn't support the nominee. Or in this case Trump.

Fast foward to election time. Trump doesn't promise to accept the results. He gets huge outcry and booing. Fast forward and those same hypocrites are now not accepting the results.

So tell me this. Who is worse. Someone who won't blindly accept an unknown outcome, or people who decry something they later end up doing?

 

I think they accept the results, but not his credibility to run a country, also to put more fuel on the fire, what the CIA brought up to the senate just made the blaze higher.

Not his credibility to run a country? Based on what? They are just assuming. Give him at least a chance to fail before you label him worst pres ever.

CIA brought up that Russia influenced election, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which oversees the U.S. intelligence community, has not fully embraced that CIA finding.



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UnderstatedCornHole said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

you did not call out on anything.. and for the rest of your rambling in that post... are you freaking blind? if there is anything to call out on, it's you having a problem with semantics.

The thread title, which you created was about how Russia allegedly helped Trump to get elected. That notion has been discredited having no source or validity. You then bring up the issue of Donald Trump refusing to throw away his right to contest an election if it so happens that it appears that irregularities appear. He was honest about his stance and you interpret this as "Donald Trump refuses to accept results of election if he loses".

That interpretation is based on your own bias because his words were clear and non-commital.

Semantics is just another word for refusing to explain yourself.

 

Again what you're "calling out on" is on a your hunch, a feeling, nothing, your own emotions..

Me being bias is your own delusion. the thread is based on what the CIA said to the Senate, and it just so happens they're withholding details from the public. What we do know is that the investigation is still going on. Another fact you refuse to accept I might add.

I brought up the issue of Trump not accepting the results as a joke to someone else, because trump refuse to give a straight answer to a yes or no question, and no nominee has ever done that before. That was the point.

Having to simplifly something in so many different ways to someone who refuse to accept it begs the question. What is your agenda here?



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irstupid said:
deskpro2k3 said:

 

I think they accept the results, but not his credibility to run a country, also to put more fuel on the fire, what the CIA brought up to the senate just made the blaze higher.

Not his credibility to run a country? Based on what? They are just assuming. Give him at least a chance to fail before you label him worst pres ever.

CIA brought up that Russia influenced election, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which oversees the U.S. intelligence community, has not fully embraced that CIA finding.

 

I didn't label. I just said what others have based on his actions, and response from his debates, his past business deals, bankruptcies, trump university, tax etc; and I agree, even Obama said to give him a chance.



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deskpro2k3 said:
UnderstatedCornHole said:

The thread title, which you created was about how Russia allegedly helped Trump to get elected. That notion has been discredited having no source or validity. You then bring up the issue of Donald Trump refusing to throw away his right to contest an election if it so happens that it appears that irregularities appear. He was honest about his stance and you interpret this as "Donald Trump refuses to accept results of election if he loses".

That interpretation is based on your own bias because his words were clear and non-commital.

Semantics is just another word for refusing to explain yourself.

 

Again what you're "calling out on" is on a your hunch, a feeling, nothing, your own emotions..

Me being bias is your own delusion. the thread is based on what the CIA said to the Senate, and it just so happens they're withholding details from the public. What we do know is that the investigation is still going on. Another fact you refuse to accept I might add.

I brought up the issue of Trump not accepting the results as a joke to someone else, because trump refuse to give a straight answer to a yes or no question, and no nominee has ever done that before. That was the point.

Having to simplifly something in so many different ways to someone who refuse to accept it begs the question. What is your agenda here?

Remember earlier when I said I deal with "knowns" and you made a mockery of it.

You fill in the gaps of unknowns with your own liberal bias and Trump hate.

You saying that I'm going on hunches/feelings/emotions is contradicts your previous remarks and mine. There are very few facts here, the rest is your own hysteria and presumption.

I keep asking you to be specific on your remarks but each time I get a wave of liberal talking points.



Normchacho said:
Yup. Not surprised at all. Nearly half of Americans were totally fine voting for someone that the Russians actively tried to get elected.

Nearly half of the minority of Americans that actually bother voting, you mean. Not half of ALL Americans.



Just how much crap can people accept.  Does it make it okay if you supported Trump.  Even though he is a straight up con artist.  

What is the limit of deception that you will accept?