Intrinsic said:

Why I say you are fanning the flames is cause you arent only jumping the gun and being somewhst sensationalist, you are doing so while ignoring a lot of factors.

Games sell hardware, that has always been the case and will comtinue to be the case. Its why Japan so sony's best november so far. Its why NA is down now cause as many have pointed out to you, this november is nothing like last years on the software front. COD was literally down by almost 50%!!! And that game is biggest in NA.

Then you talk about a decline when sony clewlry pointer out they have had the best BF in playstation history, which clearly indicates that NA is not even their biggest market. And that they did very well everywhere else. 

And then you also have to consider that the biggest hitters of this gen are not even here yet, it really just seems like you are cherry picking information to suit your narrative. 

How can you say Sony is in trouble when by the end of this year they very well could have sold over 54M consoles? In three years? That's PS2/Wii level numbers right there!! 

And lastly, No company, including MS is structured to keep bleeding money. It's a business not a charity. That's why companies have divisions, if a division isn't doing well, they will cut it off eventually. Look at Apple with the iPod? you think Apple doesnt have the money to keep supporting the iPod if it wanted to? But it's tapering it off because it's become redundant. When the scorpio is released, if it doesn't turn things around for MS, believe me when I say that wouldn't bode well for the Xbox division. 

And domt forget, PlayStation isn't just consoles. We also have PSVue and PS+ which this gen is pulling in a lot of subscriptions. 

long and short of it is, it's not as bad as you make it sound and then there is a lot more to all of it than you are writing. You saying you are being objective just makes it worse cause you aremt looking at all the data. 

Yeh look I am basing my assessment on what happened in Nov. If proven true do you honestly really think that is not a bad situation to be in for Sony in the biggest amarket after a major pro relase/ launch aligned with psvr and price reduced slim all ariund the same time -  and again with one of their few profit making businesses. Are you honestly wanting to dicount this as a non event..Come on.. does this not ring alarm bells..And re MS bleeding money over xbox perpetually..again I have heard this way too long and and by the time they do decide to give it the chop (based on predicions like this I have heard since 2008), in all seriousness consoles may be a thing of the past.. This prediction currently stands prepetually unproven even after 10 years . If a genuine decline in the console market is being experience then of course MS are in the better position to weather the storm until they transition into the next phase of pc/ device/ service gaming integration.  BTW Sony have not done any homework in this space in part due to their exit from pc and devices.  Remember MS are the ones here with the dosh to commit into the future here and as said before even with the most conservative shareholder centric CEO appointed 3 years ago, they commited to at least another 2 years of xbox development. That is a fact.  Lets see if December bodes well for your argument.

Wait! What?

You're predicting the decline in consoles based on one NPD? Lol wow!

I'm sure Sony will be fine with their 18 to 20M consoles sold in this year. I think they're going to sell more than last year. How on earth can you conclude that consoles are declining. Xbox might be declining but Playstation sure isn't. O and Switch is just around the corner.

1 month of data in one country lmao!

Get a years trend of worldwide data before you even start to predict the decline in consoles. 

Yeh look I am basing my assessment on what happened in Nov. If proven true do you honestly really think that is not a bad situation to be in for Sony in the biggest amarket after a major pro relase/ launch aligned with psvr and price reduced slim all ariund the same time -  and again with one of their few profit making businesses. Are you honestly wanting to dicount this as a non event..Come on.. does this not ring alarm bells..And re MS bleeding money over xbox perpetually..again I have heard this way too long and and by the time they do decide to give it the chop (based on predicions like this I have heard since 2008), in all seriousness consoles may be a thing of the past.. This prediction currently stands prepetually unproven even after 10 years . If a genuine decline in the console market is being experience then of course MS are in the better position to weather the storm until they transition into the next phase of pc/ device/ service gaming integration.  BTW Sony have not done any homework in this space in part due to their exit from pc and devices.  Remember MS are the ones here with the dosh to commit into the future here and as said before even with the most conservative shareholder centric CEO appointed 3 years ago, they commited to at least another 2 years of xbox development. That is a fact.  Lets see if December bodes well for your argument.

So $4.7bn profit for Surface and Cloud in one quarter is now considered a flop?

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/microsoft-surface-profit-quarter-2016

Well yes there were just way to many positive sales increase factors on both side of the fence (Particularly sony with pro/vr/slim all aligned at the same time pretty much) that failed to deliver its killer blow just before christmas. So what do you make of that. Sony should have annihilated that month. Tell me why didnt they? I do not have an answer except to say that people may be over consoles -  a trend in early development. Yeh and in relation to Switch,- well as much as I really like Nintendo, I do not think this will work out at all.

1. North America is NOT the biggest market.  It was in the 6th gen, but its not anymore. Europe is the single biggest market right now. You and those that think NA is still the biggest market in gaming only say that because it's the biggest market for MS. But don't take my word for it. look here. 
   
   GTA5 [PS4] (NA/EU) : 3.92M/6.13M (this is just one example, with the exceotion of COD nearly every other gsme tracks better in EU)
   PS4 (total not current) (NA/EU) : ~15M/~19M
   
   Now check out the number for XB1. And you will see why it's clear that NA is the biggest market for MS. Not Sony, Don't forget Sony lost to 360 in NA by almost 2:1 yet still managed to come 2nd mostly from sales from EU.
2. I don't know how you have heard that MS will axe the Xbox brand for as long as you say you have, especially considering how well MS did with the 360. Then if anything everyone was saying Sony wouldn't make the PS4 and how the PS4 would be DOA. And no one is saying MS is going to axe the Xbox we are just telling you that it matters to MS that Xbox is successful. Business is not a charity. If Apple can drop the iPod then anyone can drop anything once the market calls for it. 
3. You keep talking about this decline..... but you are basing this all off one territory. The biggest selling franchise thus far for that one territory is COD (until GTA6). Unlike last year, COD did poorly, There was no fallout, not even an assassins Creed game....there are reasons why this year was bad for them, you just insist on ignoring them. 
4. Ok, so Sony exited from the PC business and downsized their TV and mobile business that were all bleeding money. That's good business sense, not a knock. Especially when you consider that they started PSVue whivh is a pretty big deal in case you don't know. And sony has PSnow, I don't know..... sony seems way more prepared for the future than you are giving them credit for. 

Worldwide they did annihilate the XB1. Well that happens anyway but the data we have and the 50M sold to customers show PS4 had a decent boost. No matter how you spin it, the PS4 shows no sign of decline. 

And I'll say it again, it's stupid to predict something like the decline in consoles from 1 month of NPD. You are starting to sound like you have a picture in your head and your trying to find the puzzle pieces to build that picture. None of the pieces fit but your insistent that they will make this picture. You've now reached the point where you are now squashing the pieces together so you can go 'ta-dah, told you it made a picture'.

I can't have a serious conversation with somebody who wants to predict the end of consoles based on one NPD. LMAO!