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Forums - Sony Discussion - Is The Last Guardian a Trojan Horse for PS4 Pro Purchase?

DonFerrari said:
Zkuq said:
Judging by what I've seen (including a good portion of the DF video), the game is perfectly playable even on a regular PS4. It's not ideal, but it ought to be good enough.

Aside from that, this is exactly the situation I was worried about when I heard the first rumors about Pro: devs being lazy with the regular PS4 version and focusing on Pro instead. I don't think it's a Trojan Horse situation, but it could be a natural result from the whole situation.

Devs were already doing this without Pro, so the problem isn't the hw or having more than one

Yeah, I guess so, but I'm still expecting this to become even more of a problem as Pro sales numbers keep growing.



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I don't care as SotC had various technical issues, and I'd still call it one of the best games on PS2 (which is saying a lot).

These games are about atmosphere and immersion to me. I love the artistic design and get really invested in the world and characters. Of course my copy is stuck in the post due to a delay (of course!) so be waiting a while still to actually play it.



Zkuq said:
Judging by what I've seen (including a good portion of the DF video), the game is perfectly playable even on a regular PS4. It's not ideal, but it ought to be good enough.

Aside from that, this is exactly the situation I was worried about when I heard the first rumors about Pro: devs being lazy with the regular PS4 version and focusing on Pro instead. I don't think it's a Trojan Horse situation, but it could be a natural result from the whole situation.

That's not what seems to have happened though. Looking at DF's analysis, they were 'lazy' with both the standard and Pro versions. Couple that with Ueda's general history with performance, and i don't think TLG makes for a good example of your fear.



Zekkyou said:
Zkuq said:
Judging by what I've seen (including a good portion of the DF video), the game is perfectly playable even on a regular PS4. It's not ideal, but it ought to be good enough.

Aside from that, this is exactly the situation I was worried about when I heard the first rumors about Pro: devs being lazy with the regular PS4 version and focusing on Pro instead. I don't think it's a Trojan Horse situation, but it could be a natural result from the whole situation.

That's not what seems to have happened though. Looking at DF's analysis, they were 'lazy' with both the standard and Pro versions. Couple that with Ueda's general history with performance, and i don't think TLG makes for a good example of your fear.

You're right, it's not a good example. :P I'm actually kind of baffled how the game performs so badly. Performance seems to be OK but definitely not what you'd expect from a game looking like this. I like how it looks but it's doesn't seem very impressive technically.



You know what? I got caught up in the resolution/frame rate bs and wound up buying a Pro and a 4k TV last month.

This morning, I spent most of my time playing Arkham Asylum on my standard PS4 on the 1080p TV in the living room.

You know what? It didn't kill me. I rather enjoyed it.

More power is always welcome but I'm beginning to think we gamers have lost the point. We're putting too much emphasis on the "video" and not the "game".



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Trojan Horse theory is hyperbolic BS.
I mean, what, we assume they adapted their PS3>4 Trojan to a PS4>Pro Trojan at some point?
Pro version default 4k is not a clear performance showcase either (and there isn't even in-game option for 1080p/FPS).

This isn't a game that demands 60 fps responsiveness, nor are minor sub-30 dips game killers.
The 10 fps thing is likely a bug that will be patched soon, and perf in general may be increased.
It is simply more of a matter that devs rate performance last on their list of priorities. 

Honestly I don't know why these guys are allowed to use their own engine.
The graphics are not overall good enough for consistent sub-30 dips to make sense even on base PS4.
The feather details IS significant to note, along with overall level of animation quality.
But those could be pulled off just customizing GG engine with tech support from other Sony teams.
One has to wonder, why couldn't they have just implemented variable resolution?
Although it's very possible the problem isn't on the GPU side and so wouldn't be helped as much by that.



mutantsushi said:

Trojan Horse theory is hyperbolic BS.
I mean, what, we assume they adapted their PS3>4 Trojan to a PS4>Pro Trojan at some point?
Pro version default 4k is not a clear performance showcase either (and there isn't even in-game option for 1080p/FPS).

This isn't a game that demands 60 fps responsiveness, nor are minor sub-30 dips game killers.
The 10 fps thing is likely a bug that will be patched soon, and perf in general may be increased.
It is simply more of a matter that devs rate performance last on their list of priorities. 

Honestly I don't know why these guys are allowed to use their own engine.
The graphics are not overall good enough for consistent sub-30 dips to make sense even on base PS4.
The feather details IS significant to note, along with overall level of animation quality.
But those could be pulled off just customizing GG engine with tech support from other Sony teams.
One has to wonder, why couldn't they have just implemented variable resolution?
Although it's very possible the problem isn't on the GPU side and so wouldn't be helped as much by that.

What? You want it to look like everything else? I wish more games would use their own engine instead of seeing the same set of effects, global illumination and shaders every time. Games used to be a lot more unique.



No, as I wrote, customizing existing cutting edge optimized engine would be better way to go.
Implementing their own new approaches in partnership with Sony's roster of engine talent is fine idea.
But no reason to re-invent the wheel, no reason to not to draw from cutting edge tech that fits purpose.
If the game delivered reasonable performance I would not be writing this,
as I haven't done so for independent engine games with reasonably good performance.
There is nothing unique or desirable about crappy performance, which has no relation to great art direction.



I don't know whether it was justified, will start playing it in an hour or so.
Ico and sotc always stood apart from other games in their unique implementation, tech build around a vision. Not a vision build inside existing tech. Which is why the development took so long as the vision simply did not work on ps3. Anyway I rather see some rough in house made engine than another frostbite or unreal adaptation.



Mar1217 said:
Zekkyou said:

Effort obviously plays a part (as with most things), but real-time animation can still be very resource intensive. It's why even from industry leaders in animation, such as Naughty Dog, we still saw dramatic improvements in their in-game animation offerings between the 7th and 8th gen. TLG is also among the small but growing group of games opting to spend some of their resource budget on more complex reactive animation systems (something i'm very happy about).

I don't think TLG's animation justifies its performance, but as i mentioned in my first post in this thread, i personally think Ueda just doesn't care much about locking at 30 :p That the Pro's 4k mode is running at a higher native than even Sony's 1st party average certainly makes it seem that way.

And I hope in the end that it's not going to be an ever growing case where the og PS4 will get a dumb down version of it's new counter-part, the PS4 Pro.

After this and Dishonored 2, I'm getting the feeling that 3rd parties and Sony will let this happen much more next year.

Dishonored 2 has crap performance on all platforms....Nearly every game this gen that has performance issues....tends to have gen on all consoles/and a lot with PC lately 



Preston Scott