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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nolan North has strong words for striking voice actors

COKTOE said:

Street jockeys earn $50/hour for background chatter in my town. Bare minimum. It's a lucrative field. It's like getting paid to fart into a jar. I know people in this insustry. And I use the term industry lightly.

- edit. Oh god. I didn't even see the part where my existance is in question. Ha! So, are you one of those poor souls who forces sounds out of their voicebox for a living, a voice actor groupie/sycophant, or a compulsive contrarian? I can only imagine the hardship. So many brave souls were lost just this year.....next year, more black-lung and radiation death. But we have to move forward as a species. More money for people playing pretend sounds like something to double down on.

Oh you sweet summer child, if only you knew, if only, but you don't and that's why you act the part. My heart would go out to you, if you were only worth the time.

You'll never understand though and that's why you'll look down on VA's and I'll look down on your kind.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

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The biggest video game voice actors are actually very very overpaid and they get their jobs through connections and not through competition in a free market, when in fact they could often be replaced by very skilled amateurs who are just waiting to get their chance and who would voice act for much less money (often as a side job and extra income to studies or some other job).

We need to understand that the big voice actors are people who dreamt of becoming Hollywood movie actors but they weren't talented enough, so they had to resort to voice acting video games for a easy bucks. Many of them see voice acting video games as a low status job, while in fact it's a comfortable and very easy job for a normal person. Naturally these bitter wannabes will want to milk as much money from voice acting as possible in order to gain a luxury lifestyle that at least reminds of the glorious Hollywood star life they always dreamt of.

But there's no reason for us to give in to the unrealistic demands of these megalomaniac voice actors! It's not our job to compensate for their failures in Hollywood.



This is actually a very smart move by Nolan North. Now he'll get all the contracts that might've been going towards the strikers.

$$$$$$$$$$$$



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KLXVER said:
DonFerrari said:

Because people only want the money of other people risks.

Its insane. This shit might fly in Hollywood, but Im glad publishers havent given in to their demands....yet. Im afraid they might be bullied into doing it.

They may give some, it's part of negotiations.

SvennoJ said:
Interesting to see so many people side with the publishers. Perhaps thinking voice acting isn't real work? Or that they're all like Nolan North and just want to get more rich easily? Or maybe fear that if this strike is successful, artists and sound designers/composers might follow, then programmers and QA as well.

Some day the era of overproduced games on the back of underpaid talent will end. Is it going to be a hard crash or a soft landing. With the general attitude of lazy developers, cheap cash ins, over priced games, I wonder how much longer this breakneck pace in the video games industry will be sustainable.

No, it isn't about thinking it isn't real work. It's more on considering some actors are paid very low and others very high it's quite evident that talent and possible revenue to be made by the contribution of that person is what defines payment.

Union decisions only will do the cost be higher to VA and they may quite easily diminish the number of VAs in a game, higher amateurs or increase the poduction cost and see higher risk projects became scarce... all in all it would end up bitting them in the back.

How do you think most manufacturing jobs left USA and gone to China?

Games are overproduced... and where most of that production money goes? Owwwww paychecks, but they are underpaid, where does the math match?

binary solo said:
I agree and disagree with Nolan North. Performance of every creative person does matter and it only serves the interests of publishers and corporate empires for different "factions" of creative people to be fighting among themselves about who deserves more. THEY ALL DESERVE MORE. I wish people would get that trough their thick skulls, especially the actors, designers and developers who are opposing this. Ultimately, if the voice actors get a better deal this can flow through in some way to the other artists in the game industry.

How is what North says about if they didn't do their work his job wouldn't exist differ to moves, TV and theatre. Acting jobs in any medium only exists because other people have put in a huge amount of work before the actors get to do their performance. The part of Gollum in LOTR would not exist if Tolkien had not written the book, Peter Jackson hadn't convinced a studio to produce the movie, and he hadn't written a script that was good enough to be turned into a film, and all the SFX people hadn't done a brilliant job doing Gollum's animation. Yet Andy Serkis still gets royalties for his performance as Gollum.

All the voice actors in the Disney animated movies get royalties for their voice work, that is 100% the same work as the voice actors in video games. 100% the same, they stand in a studio and read the lines.

This isn't an argument about whether game VAs should get more. It's an argument about whether game VAs should get the same sort of deal as movie and TV actors. And the answer is absolutely yes they should get the same sort of deal.

Should designers and developers get a better deal? Damned right the should. And I hope they band together and demand it.

I've lost a bit of respect for Nolan North since he seems to suffer from a lack of vision even though he was well intentioned by acknowledging the amazing and essential work the other creative people do.

Go ahead Naught Dog, make TLOU and Uncharted with computer generated "Stephen Hawking" vocals. See how that goes down. Or how about have no voices and just text dialogue? Yeah, no. Quality voice work is important in many video games it is part of the experience, and poor voice work lowers the quality of the experience.

Deserve more based on? Perhaps the amount of companies going under because of excessive costs?

If all suposelly get a better deal the cost of production will be bigger and we'll see even more complains about companies taking less risks, more nick and dime DLCs, or higher pricetags for games.

Funny enough you brought the points on other industries... Haven't seem anyone parading that SFX professionals get their names on the cover of a movie or any high paid actor to forfeit their big paychecks so the groundwork people receives more.

It's always a "pay more using the money from another pocket".

binary solo said:
COKTOE said:

Street jockeys earn $50/hour for background chatter in my town. Bare minimum. It's a lucrative field. It's like getting paid to fart into a jar. I know people in this insustry. And I use the term industry lightly.

Yet they may only work for half a year or less. Meaning their annual income is actually quite low. People think being paid $100 per hour is creaming it. But it seems people think these actors are working 40hrs/week 48 weeks a year on contracts that have health insurance, sick leave, annual leave etc etc. But that is not the case. Most of the time the contracts are very bare bones with no or very few benefits.

It appears you might know people in the industry, but you seem to have little understanding of the industry. You certainly seem to place no valuon the inputs of the industry, and yet people seem to value the outputs of this industry to a very high degree. Some people spend the majority of their leisure time consuming (andf paying for) the outputs of this industry, yet for some odd reason they don't think this industry has any merit. Very strange.

The person works let's say 1/4 of a regular citizen while earning 10 per hour that of a regular folk and we should support they asking for more because???

That person would have 3/4 of his working time free to earn money on other ventures. I'm certainly you try to maximize your earnings by allocating more working hours instead of saying "I can only work 100h a year, so I should be paid 1k/h so I can only do this during the year".

Aura7541 said:
thismeintiel said:

Boy, I just love the mindset of "Oh, they're just fatcats, now, they don't know."  Was Nolan North, or Brad Pitt for that matter, born an actor?  Were they just put on a bunch of games and movies for no reason other than his birthright?  Or did they work their asses off to get to where they are?  I'll give you a hint, it's the last one.

And if they had to work their asses off to get to where they are, then so should others have to.  It shouldn't just be given to them.  This is the problem.  The minset of give me, give me without the work.  That and unions are now only concerned with giving their members higher pay and benefits just so they can make more money from union dues, even if in the end it costs their members jobs when the company goes elsewhere or shuts down.

And here's the kicker. The gaming industry has proposed its compensation plans, but the SAG-AFTRA leaders prohibited its members from voting. Rather odd that the leaders refuse to engage in a democratic process...

There is no democracy in unions... they only vote what they already have decided and how they decided.

Most groups act like that, the elite decide and if the others disagree they won't accept. And that is one of the reasons I'm all for individualism.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
SvennoJ said:
Interesting to see so many people side with the publishers. Perhaps thinking voice acting isn't real work? Or that they're all like Nolan North and just want to get more rich easily? Or maybe fear that if this strike is successful, artists and sound designers/composers might follow, then programmers and QA as well.

Some day the era of overproduced games on the back of underpaid talent will end. Is it going to be a hard crash or a soft landing. With the general attitude of lazy developers, cheap cash ins, over priced games, I wonder how much longer this breakneck pace in the video games industry will be sustainable.

No, it isn't about thinking it isn't real work. It's more on considering some actors are paid very low and others very high it's quite evident that talent and possible revenue to be made by the contribution of that person is what defines payment.

Union decisions only will do the cost be higher to VA and they may quite easily diminish the number of VAs in a game, higher amateurs or increase the poduction cost and see higher risk projects became scarce... all in all it would end up bitting them in the back.

How do you think most manufacturing jobs left USA and gone to China?

Games are overproduced... and where most of that production money goes? Owwwww paychecks, but they are underpaid, where does the math match?

Jobs left because people prefer to buy more cheaper Chinese products. It will go the same route with videogames, it's currently a race to the bottom. Mobile is already lost as value has eroded so much. No AAA games there.

The math doesn't match. People want to pay sale prices for new releases. It's creating a toxic industry where people are chewed up and spit out in a few years of almost constant crunch time. I don't think by far VA is facing the strain of artists and programmers, yet they're the only ones unionized. Someone has got to start the ball rolling for progress.

AA games have already vanished. Now there's indies and AAA games with ridiculous budgets which still aren't enough to hire enough people or have a more reasonable development cycle. The constant demand for bigger spectable is what's making the industry more risk averse, gamer's buying patterns is what ends up biting them in the back! No need to blame the industry, they just respond to consumer demand. Consumer expectations are unrealistic. It's very evident with VR with many people ignoring the games as too expensive, not big enough, wait for AAA games specifically produced for VR. Unrealistic.



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SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

No, it isn't about thinking it isn't real work. It's more on considering some actors are paid very low and others very high it's quite evident that talent and possible revenue to be made by the contribution of that person is what defines payment.

Union decisions only will do the cost be higher to VA and they may quite easily diminish the number of VAs in a game, higher amateurs or increase the poduction cost and see higher risk projects became scarce... all in all it would end up bitting them in the back.

How do you think most manufacturing jobs left USA and gone to China?

Games are overproduced... and where most of that production money goes? Owwwww paychecks, but they are underpaid, where does the math match?

Jobs left because people prefer to buy more cheaper Chinese products. It will go the same route with videogames, it's currently a race to the bottom. Mobile is already lost as value has eroded so much. No AAA games there.

The math doesn't match. People want to pay sale prices for new releases. It's creating a toxic industry where people are chewed up and spit out in a few years of almost constant crunch time. I don't think by far VA is facing the strain of artists and programmers, yet they're the only ones unionized. Someone has got to start the ball rolling for progress.

AA games have already vanished. Now there's indies and AAA games with ridiculous budgets which still aren't enough to hire enough people or have a more reasonable development cycle. The constant demand for bigger spectable is what's making the industry more risk averse, gamer's buying patterns is what ends up biting them in the back! No need to blame the industry, they just respond to consumer demand. Consumer expectations are unrealistic. It's very evident with VR with many people ignoring the games as too expensive, not big enough, wait for AAA games specifically produced for VR. Unrealistic.

Not only that... people demand higher payment for the work and lower prices for the products. Those don't work side by side unless they raise the productivity. And the pace both happened had only one solution, moving the production to China. iPhone isn't a chinese product, just one made in China.

Yes, so explain to me how you want to solve budgets already inflated with raising the payments even more? How will they break even or take risks?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
SvennoJ said:

Jobs left because people prefer to buy more cheaper Chinese products. It will go the same route with videogames, it's currently a race to the bottom. Mobile is already lost as value has eroded so much. No AAA games there.

The math doesn't match. People want to pay sale prices for new releases. It's creating a toxic industry where people are chewed up and spit out in a few years of almost constant crunch time. I don't think by far VA is facing the strain of artists and programmers, yet they're the only ones unionized. Someone has got to start the ball rolling for progress.

AA games have already vanished. Now there's indies and AAA games with ridiculous budgets which still aren't enough to hire enough people or have a more reasonable development cycle. The constant demand for bigger spectable is what's making the industry more risk averse, gamer's buying patterns is what ends up biting them in the back! No need to blame the industry, they just respond to consumer demand. Consumer expectations are unrealistic. It's very evident with VR with many people ignoring the games as too expensive, not big enough, wait for AAA games specifically produced for VR. Unrealistic.

Not only that... people demand higher payment for the work and lower prices for the products. Those don't work side by side unless they raise the productivity. And the pace both happened had only one solution, moving the production to China. iPhone isn't a chinese product, just one made in China.

Yes, so explain to me how you want to solve budgets already inflated with raising the payments even more? How will they break even or take risks?

Productivity has already been raised to the max. The only solution is what we're already seeing, less risks, shorter campaigns, extra revenue streams, dlc, subscriptions, micro payments etc. Or we could start caring less about graphics.

And yeah outsourcing is already happening
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech-deck/india-a-growing-market-for-game-development-outsourcing/
If one has any doubts about the quality of game development talent in India, one might want to look at the fact that top international studios such as Electronic Arts, Ubisoft and Zynga have already set up development centres in India.

Yet what else can you do if the consumer won't pay more while demanding ever bigger games.
http://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577
It's not a healthy industry, and asking more money isn't a solution. Yet perhaps this strike will empower other people in the video game industry to stand up for themselves. With ofcourse the risk of getting their jobs shipped out overseas :/ The movie industry seems to have figured out a way, I think?

I don't have the answers, just takes the shine a bit of that new release knowing it probably burned out a bunch of people making it.



SvennoJ said:
DonFerrari said:

Not only that... people demand higher payment for the work and lower prices for the products. Those don't work side by side unless they raise the productivity. And the pace both happened had only one solution, moving the production to China. iPhone isn't a chinese product, just one made in China.

Yes, so explain to me how you want to solve budgets already inflated with raising the payments even more? How will they break even or take risks?

Productivity has already been raised to the max. The only solution is what we're already seeing, less risks, shorter campaigns, extra revenue streams, dlc, subscriptions, micro payments etc. Or we could start caring less about graphics.

And yeah outsourcing is already happening
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech-deck/india-a-growing-market-for-game-development-outsourcing/
If one has any doubts about the quality of game development talent in India, one might want to look at the fact that top international studios such as Electronic Arts, Ubisoft and Zynga have already set up development centres in India.

Yet what else can you do if the consumer won't pay more while demanding ever bigger games.
http://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577
It's not a healthy industry, and asking more money isn't a solution. Yet perhaps this strike will empower other people in the video game industry to stand up for themselves. With ofcourse the risk of getting their jobs shipped out overseas :/ The movie industry seems to have figured out a way, I think?

I don't have the answers, just takes the shine a bit of that new release knowing it probably burned out a bunch of people making it.

Graphics is one part, but having the game dubbed in 10 languagues and subtitled to another 20 is another drain on the game cost.

If you think raising the salary but being unemployed is empowerement ok. This very word is totally bogus, people use it on the most silly situations.

I can assure you that asking for more money on a situation of costs already elevated and trying to pressure through unions that even the less talented get a good paycheck will have very dire results for them.

Holywood is a completely different industry. It's quite a lot harder to transfer all the production of the movies and series to bolywood, cairo or any other place (but could be done if necessary). On the other hand manufacturing was "quite easy". I don't think VG sits so far from it. They could make most of the game over in China or India and just pay the VA to dub the english lines. So in that everyone loses so VA gets paid more.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Watching him do the VR sales person gig in the same show was quite entertaining.