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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Switch vs WiiU vs Xbox One vs PS4 (Last Update: January 12, 2017)

superchunk on 16 December 2016
fatslob-:O said:

Patents =/= Final product ... 

No it isn't LOL ... (That thing is literally a beast compared to the NS. It's a supercharged Tegra X1 that happily sips up as much power as it wants from the wall all the while requiring active cooling. That thing struggled with last gen ports EVEN with the GPU clocked at 1GHz!) 

And I'm not expecting parity or 4K but I'm also not expecting it to run native current gen AAA console ports even with lower presets. NS needs a specialized versions of these games if it hopes to be able to run these blockbusters ... (If the Switch did get the said AAA console titles I'd expect them to look AND play drastically differently. 20/30FPS, less enemies, simpler AI, including different level design too) 

It's going to be Hyrule Warriors WII U vs 3DS and FF Type-0 HD twins vs PSP all over again if the Switch does manage to get these console titles ... (COD will also be 30FPS on the Swtich too.)

These are patents Nintendo just filed based on its final product. We know for a fact that NS has active cooling.

You linked Shield using the X1 set at levels better than the dev kit rumor but lower than what I have in the OP. As I stated, I do believe that Nintendo would have asked Nvidia to use something better than in their Shield TV.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.



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superchunk on 16 December 2016
bonzobanana said:
Superchunk is clearly a fan of Nintendo products and for the moment the Switch spec looks very unrealistic with the Denver cores still mentioned which were not in the development kit.

Not much point debating with him at this point he seems determined to keep to an overly rosy version of the Switch spec. I disagree with him about this because it gives false expectations to a lot of people but ultimately we don't have the hard evidence yet to set in stone a realistic spec but I do feel currently its mis-judged to say the least.

The dev kit from the first rumor was not the final kit. There are other rumors (linked in OP) from manufacturing who did accurately state other elements, that it has the Denver CPUs in the BIG.little design. This is why I have ? next to those areas and will drop them if more credible rumors cement the original dev kit link of only 4x A57s.



superchunk on 16 December 2016
Trumpstyle said:
Maybe I'm missing something but Nintendo switch makes no sense to me. It has no harddrive which mean all games must sell through retail. This will kill the indie game market and make this console totally depended on the big game studios.

But the console is to weak for AAA games. If NS has 500 gigaflops and 25gb memory bandwidth there is just no way any gamedeveloper wanna waste time with this console. It needs a minimun 750 gigaflops and 50gb of memory bandwidth to even have a small chance for support.

It has built-in storage, similar to your phone/tablets/etc. It also supports SD cards up to any size you want. This is no difference than Wii, WiiU, DS or 3DS which all supported digital-only and indie gaming.

PC gaming demonstrates that you are wrong now. Games on PCs now go down to these NS levels with less RAM. Lowering textures, AA, etc allow alot of flexibility. Middleware used by game devs now also allow relatively simple scaling and supports NS.



superchunk on 16 December 2016
zwei said:
Wii U -> 352 GFlops. The table is wrong.

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/1903/wii-u-gpu

Go read my linked table at the top of the OP where there is documentation from many sources demonstrating that it is universally agreed that the WiiU was 176GF.



superchunk on 16 December 2016
curl-6 said:
superchunk said:

I'm expecting to see all major annual releases announced for in in 2017. Many in January and rest by E3.

You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

No, I recognize there is a chance that 3rd parties will still see Nintendo hardware as too much of a risk to warrant support. However, I also think that businesses want to make money and when the barrier to entry is low, then it is worth it.

NS won't need to sell the same number of copies of COD16 as XBO/PS4, Wii didn't. It just needs to sell enough to remain profitable.

NS needs

1) strong launch
2) low barrier of entry for porting

#1 should be satisfied by the low price, solid 1st year of just 1st party alone. Get 10MM out door (or close to it) in 2017 and 3rd parties will see opportunity.

#2 is already satisfied in that all major middleware providers have stated there is support. That is why the just released version of Skyrim was in the trailer. 

Either way, I do own an XBO, so my low bar is just getting 1st party, but my expectation is still to get nearly everything.



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fatslob-:O on 16 December 2016
superchunk said:

These are patents Nintendo just filed based on its final product. We know for a fact that NS has active cooling.

You linked Shield using the X1 set at levels better than the dev kit rumor but lower than what I have in the OP. As I stated, I do believe that Nintendo would have asked Nvidia to use something better than in their Shield TV.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The hype train is about to get derailed quickly ... 

"We know for a fact that the NS has active cooling" even though you don't give a source ... /s 

"You linked Shield using the X1 set at levels better than the dev kit rumor but lower than what I have in the OP."

I don't know you tell me if the Switch's GPU is clocked at 1GHz ...



curl-6 on 16 December 2016
superchunk said:
curl-6 said:

You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

No, I recognize there is a chance that 3rd parties will still see Nintendo hardware as too much of a risk to warrant support. However, I also think that businesses want to make money and when the barrier to entry is low, then it is worth it.

NS won't need to sell the same number of copies of COD16 as XBO/PS4, Wii didn't. It just needs to sell enough to remain profitable.

NS needs

1) strong launch
2) low barrier of entry for porting

#1 should be satisfied by the low price, solid 1st year of just 1st party alone. Get 10MM out door (or close to it) in 2017 and 3rd parties will see opportunity.

#2 is already satisfied in that all major middleware providers have stated there is support. That is why the just released version of Skyrim was in the trailer. 

Either way, I do own an XBO, so my low bar is just getting 1st party, but my expectation is still to get nearly everything.

"All major releases" seems a tad over-optimistic. Even Gamecube, which was stronger than PS2, missed out on a lot of PS2/Xbox multiplats. Wii U missed out on plenty on PS3/360 multiplats despite being fully capable of running them. N64 was stronger than PS1/Saturn yet still missed out on plenty of games.



superchunk on 16 December 2016
fatslob-:O said:

The hype train is about to get derailed quickly ... 

"We know for a fact that the NS has active cooling" even though you don't give a source ... /s 

"You linked Shield using the X1 set at levels better than the dev kit rumor but lower than what I have in the OP."

I don't know you tell me if the Switch's GPU is clocked at 1GHz ...

RE active cooling

Here is a very detailed and direct referenced break-down of the Nintendo patent filed this past week.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/5ii58o/nintendo_switch_patent_megathread/

I don't see why you ignore this as a source for active cooling outside of purposeful bias.

RE NS vs Shield TV

Why are you asking if NS GPU is 1GHz? Shield TV is only 512GHz (FP32).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Tegra_X1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1297191

That is what I've had in the OP for X1 and orig dev kit rumor all along. That is at least where NS started at as a base discussion before doing whatever tweaks they've done for hte 500 man-years of effort Nvidia claimed.

Even if we base NS at the dev kit rumor, we see a lower CPU in NS, better RAM in NS and equivalient GPU in NS.

However, there is also https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/10/20/nintendo-switch/

This demonstrates what the X2 or P1 in the wiki above is discussing. It also, thus far, matches the latest confirmations in patents and confirmed things like usb-c power/adapter to dock, no fans/tech in dock, shoulder buttons on connector end of joycons, etc. The only quesitonable data in that now is maxwell vs pascal - though there have been multple sources on gaf to say while dev kit is maxwell, they are still positive retail is actually pascal.

This is where the Denver and some clock speeds in the OP come from and that is absolutely more powerful and very much plausible.



superchunk on 16 December 2016
curl-6 said:

"All major releases" seems a tad over-optimistic. Even Gamecube, which was stronger than PS2, missed out on a lot of PS2/Xbox multiplats. Wii U missed out on plenty on PS3/360 multiplats despite being fully capable of running them. N64 was stronger than PS1/Saturn yet still missed out on plenty of games.

So did N64. That is where the political angle comes in, when 3rd parties refused to work with Nintendo, not out of technical limitations.

In the end WiiU was not capable to run them or rather the barrier to entry was too great. It would require Nintendo or devs to upgrade tooling to support WiiU as the middleware teams (except Unity) refused to do so.

NS is supported day one by all of these middleware devs.

 

 

Eitherway, I do recognize the real possibility that 3rd parties ignore Nintendo, but it is not due to technical limitations based on the support given from middleware and the tech NS is now assumed to have.



FallingTitan on 16 December 2016

WOW the switch is SUPER STRONG for a handheld. Its insane! its like 100 3ds's glued together!