A side note on CM Punk's interview with Ariel Helwani.
I thought the whole thing was great, and absolutely fair. He didn't bury anyone, just confirmed what everyone already knew, and clarified a few things. The way the Internet has taken the interview and clipped every point out of context while adding their own spin has really stirred it up into a "pipe bomb" type promo, when it really wasn't. But I think that's the magic of CM Punk, his golden egg production, so to speak - when he talks, people talk about what he says, whether they love him or hate him. He brings that unpredictability to the product that many have forgotten was a key ingredient for the success of the Attitude era in the 1990s, even when the storytelling was still not quite there yet, it made the show interesting - IMO, as the storytelling got better, the unpredictability vanished (there was that sweet spot, probably best defined as the year 2000 where they had unpredictability + solid storytelling) but that was almost completely gone by mid-2002. But I'm getting away from my point.

The point is, CM Punk is that agent of chaos that brings that unpredictability back into the mix, and every moment he's on screen, every time he picks up the mic or you always wonder "What the fuck is this guy going to say?" and "Is this how its supposed to happen?"

My one criticism of the interview is more about presentation. CM Punk said multiple times: "I probably shouldn't say this, but I didn't come to this interview to censor myself, ______" when he could have highlighted the juicy stuff with an intro more like: "Here's something they don't want me saying_____" - a very minor criticism, but I like the idea that CM Punk being so mad at AEW that he's going to spit stuff he shouldn't, rather than making himself out to be the good boy who is unveiling stuff because Ariel asked him in a big interview. I think know its consistent with his character, but I felt he could have come off stronger.

Randy Orton made his debut back in April of 2002.

22 years damn.

Great event. Don't feel like rating every match but overall a very fun time. I'm not sure if the matches we saw were the most amazing in terms of workrate athleticism, etc, but the storytelling was top notch. And to me, that's the most important thing. It was not only a satisfying ending to some of the longest running stories in modern WWE, but also the type of ending that leaves you wanting more. That's difficult to pull off, but they did it. 

If Cody Rhodes was the Frodo of the story, Seth was Samwise. After being manipulative and selfish his whole career Seth made it look like he was being completely selfless to help Cody... and he was.

After giving it his all on Night One and failing, losing his title as a result, and taking about 10 Claymores, there wasn't much Seth could really do to stop the Bloodline. 

Seth Rollins came out (for a split second I thought it might be Moxley), and did the opposite of what he did when the Shield broke up. Back then he was so obsessed with personal gain that he attacked his brothers to advance up the card. This time around instead, he sacrificed his title and his body, and this time actually did his job and actually served as a Shield for Cody. 

The match played on over a decade of history between the parties involved and made did it in a way that made sense for every character involved. Even the losers came out as more interesting characters than when they came in. Just a superb example of how wrestling can tell stories in a unique way. 

Just for information. I've been wanting to talk about the Vince McMahon situation for a while. Instead of posting stuff in this thread, and polluting the discussion of wrestling discussion with backstage scandals and such. I created a new thread in the Politics forum:
https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248141/former-chairman-of-tko-parent-company-of-wwe-and-ufc-vince-mcmahon-sexual-coercion-and-assault-allegations/1/#2

If anyone wants to contribute, I'll edit the parent post with any updated information and corrections as they come through. Because this story keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Tony Khan and the Young Bucks are promising to show footage from backstage at Wembley stadium. They haven't specifically said that it is going to be of the CM Punk Jack Perry confrontation, but also denied it being a bait and switch.

So, are they actually going to show it? If so, who does it help or hurt? Will you watch it?

Personally, I think it's a bait and switch. They say it's not, but they also didn't say specifically what it is footage of, so they could say afterwards "oh well we delivered exactly what we promised, backstage footage from All In at Wembley." If they show it, then I guess it will be interesting to watch, but I don't see who it benefits. It's not like we're going to see a match between Jungle Boy and Punk, or the Young Bucks and Punk. The time where this footage will draw money is long past. Maybe they just want to prove Punk wrong, and if the footage does that, then good for them I guess, but it doesn't seem like now is the best time to put the focus on a guy who is no longer there. Maybe they just want to show that Punk can't really fight, but a) we already know that because his UFC matches are public and b) that would make us question the narrative that Khan feared for his life at All In.

Personally, don't feel like it's a good idea, but my voyeuristic side will enjoy it if that's what is shown. Still thinking it will be a bait and switch and will be something totally unrelated to Punk.

Edit: Welp, not a bait and switch. They actually did show the footage of the backstage scuffle at all in. And it... went down exactly like Punk said?

Punk confronted Jungle Boy backstage and they talk for... a while. A good 30 seconds maybe? Long enough to make one wonder why exactly nobody stepped in to defuse the situation. Seems that CM Punk turned directly to Tony at one point before the fight. There is no audio so we don't know what was said. After a bit, Punk shoves Perry a couple of times, then Punk gets him in a front face lock, and then Samoa Joe breaks it up within a few seconds. This is pretty much in line with what Punk said in his interview.

Whatever you thought before about Punk, you probably still think the same. It was probably milder than what you may have imagined. Did he need to be fired? I dunno. It's weird because wrestling is a gray area. If this happened in an office job, the person would be fired 100%. If it happened between players on a football team during practice, it would probably blow over within a couple of hours. What is clear is... that Tony Khan has lived a very sheltered life or is a liar. Nobody in that situation should have been afraid for their life. This was a schoolyard scuffle at worst. There have certainly been other fights backstage in wrestling where the participants were not fired. 

The bizarre thing is that after this, FTR came out to question what showing the footage accomplished. He talked about how people needed to move on and focus on the good stuff AEW is doing. I think last week Copeland came out to do a "love all wrestling don't be a tribal asshole" speech. So, Tony is booking all of the faces to point out how stupid and detrimental this is... yet he's still doing it. The Bucks are supposed to be heels for doing this, but the one actually doing it is Tony... so he's a heel I guess? 

IMO just a strange strange choice overall. It seems Tony Khan is somehow trying to win the online narrative and vindicate himself. But, even if that was a good use of TV time, that didn't accomplish that goal anyway. Later on in the show when the Bucks were doing an angle with Okada, a new big free agent signing trying to get over, people were chanting for CM Punk. CM Punk was the #1 trend on twitter, and most of the chatter was in favor of Punk. Forbes listed in their results for Dynamite...

AEW is now trying to issue DMCA takedowns of the footage that they themselves aired... meaning they either don't think people seeing it is good for their brand or they fucked up by showing it, which could be a violation of privacy law. And if they're planning on bringing back Jungle Boy, how does showing him getting his ass kicked help? Why would any wrestling promoter ever want to show footage of one of their wrestlers getting beat by another promotion's star? Who do I want to see more of after this? The guy who's on the other show. 

Hard to see anything good coming from this for AEW. Just need to move on. 

That footage being shown was pointless , if anything it will show that it got more ratings than some of the matches on that show simply because it was hyped.

Embarrassing as hell, they should have just moved on and not platform this.

It made CM Punk look more authentic, and Jungle Boy look like a bitch. They also didn’t show the part where Tony Khan was scared for his life, which is what I wanted to see the most.

Not sure if that was the goal of airing this was. It seems a little weird that Tony Khan would want to hype a wrestler in another promotion. But, as CM Punk says, he’s not running a business (sentiments I’ve heard echoed by Jim Cornette, Brian Last, Eric Bischoff, Dutch Mantel, and even Vince Russo - it’s hard to get all these guys agreeing on anything). There is a rumour that Tony Khan is angry at Jungle Boy for causing him to lose CM Punk, so this might have been a little revenge.

Anyway. Looks like we have our answer.
CM Punk in AEW = problems - So many people blaming CM Punk for the problems in AEW; over-dramatic cringeworthy comments, like calling CM Punk "Cancer".

A few months later

AEW (without Punk) = Bigger Problems
CM Punk in WWE = The show becomes great (Punk not the whole reason, but a big part of it).

Funny picture :)

It's just sad that AEW went from being a superior product to WWE to imploding and within about 18 months has become a joke. CM Punk wasn't the problem, he just called it out. People blamed Punk for the situation - but it looks more like he was trying to fix it.

Jim Cornette called the problems out long ago. He was right.

At some point, someone will do a documentary on the self destruction of All Elite Wrestling.

Also, I just discovered that CM Punk talking about "I shouldn't comment on this, but I'm going to" was actually a jab at Tony Khan's "I shouldn't comment on this, and I don't want to, so I won't" from a few years ago.

They got a slight ratings boost out of it. But that means CM Punk is their biggest draw. At any rate, people saw what they wanted to see. Will they be back? I doubt it. Bandaid on an axe wound. 

I don't think it suddenly imploded. It was built on a shaky foundation. This was bound to happen sooner or later with or without Punk.

The fundamental problem is that AEW is made for the AEW audience. It's for the people who had an investment in guys like Okada or Osprey before they debuted, and were ready to view them as stars. To most people though, you have to be able to build these characters, and convince them to care beyond the fact that "well they're really good wrestlers". Some people are just happy for Tony to put two good wrestlers in the ring together. Most people need compelling stories and characters.

And the product has been falling pretty steadily. Punk gave it a jolt, but that wore off. The cringey stuff we're seeing now is because Tony Khan is getting desperate and defensive. What he's doing is clearly not working. So, he's going into panic mode to do anything to change the tide.