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Forums - Politics - What is the Alt-Right?

VGPolyglot said:
LadyJasmine said:

You mean the same politicans that thought it was a smart idea to welcome 1 million refugees+ with no secuirty or background checks into Germany n less then a few months in 2015 and pretty much causing a large backlash against refugees across the Western World?

 

Overwhelming majority are in favour of taking care of refugees by a government took an extreme poisition that made no sense and then try to silence anyone who disagreed as racist.

What else was going to happen? There were too many of them to forcefully keep out, unless the governments carried out mass executions against the refugees. Also, there has been many instances of millions of refugees going into a country with no security checks: do you realize that millions of Germans today are there as a result of a mass relocation of German refugees westward from Poland and Eastern Europe after World War II? If millions of immigrants with no security or background checks was such a bad thing, why didn't Germany collapse in 1950?

 

 

 

Well  firstly the war in Syria continues but Germany is taking 300,000 in 2016 compared to well over a million last year which is high but somewhat logical now.

and I believe someone named Angela Merkel in Sept 2015 said 'come on over and we can manage'... and then said 'um no we cant stop coming now, stay in Turkey.' Many countries, many liberal countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland said its too many...

There are still millions of refugees and the war is getting worse in Syria so the idea that we have to take them all is absurd or millions more even.

The issue is people like yourself have no problem with taking in millions of refugees into our society but to me and a lot of people we do not want that and that is a huge difference of opinion.

People on the left will call us racist and such but those people they are calling racist who are actually moderates will likely end up voting for right wing Populists in frustration. 



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VGPolyglot said:
barneystinson69 said:

No, its actually quite the opposite. We've seen immigrants form ghettos and mini-societies where law and order have failed. Many areas in Europe with high immigrant populations also seem more people on social benifits, and generally we see immigrants with far higher unemployment rates than people who where born in these countries. And yes, Europe is very homogeneous compared to say Africa or Asia.

Yeah, and why have those societies failed? For centuries European countries and the United States have conquered the lands and then sapped all of their resources and forced them into poverty, and have supported militias that wage continuous war, or directly get invovled either through military forces or bombing missions that destroys a large of infrastructure, displaces many, or kills thousands of innocent people. When you're continuously getting bombed, how are you supposed to be able to live a decent life?

Really? I will put a bit of blame on the US, but colonialism has been dead for a long time. Its not Europe's fault if Libya isn't run properly, or if Syria decides to elect a war criminal as head of state. 



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

barneystinson69 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Yeah, and why have those societies failed? For centuries European countries and the United States have conquered the lands and then sapped all of their resources and forced them into poverty, and have supported militias that wage continuous war, or directly get invovled either through military forces or bombing missions that destroys a large of infrastructure, displaces many, or kills thousands of innocent people. When you're continuously getting bombed, how are you supposed to be able to live a decent life?

Really? I will put a bit of blame on the US, but colonialism has been dead for a long time. Its not Europe's fault if Libya isn't run properly, or if Syria decides to elect a war criminal as head of state. 

The United States armed militias that overthrew the Gaddafi government, and continue to bomb Libya, so it's not like Libya is the way it is solely on its own. Also, , you neglected to mention that Assad undemocratically became president, and if that the UK invaded Iraq too, and the U.S. has committed various atrocities, so Europe and the U.S. both have elected war criminals.



LadyJasmine said:
VGPolyglot said:

What else was going to happen? There were too many of them to forcefully keep out, unless the governments carried out mass executions against the refugees. Also, there has been many instances of millions of refugees going into a country with no security checks: do you realize that millions of Germans today are there as a result of a mass relocation of German refugees westward from Poland and Eastern Europe after World War II? If millions of immigrants with no security or background checks was such a bad thing, why didn't Germany collapse in 1950?

 

 

 

Well  firstly the war in Syria continues but Germany is taking 300,000 in 2016 compared to well over a million last year which is high but somewhat logical now.

and I believe someone named Angela Merkel in Sept 2015 said 'come on over and we can manage'... and then said 'um no we cant stop coming now, stay in Turkey.' Many countries, many liberal countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland said its too many...

There are still millions of refugees and the war is getting worse in Syria so the idea that we have to take them all is absurd or millions more even.

The issue is people like yourself have no problem with taking in millions of refugees into our society but to me and a lot of people we do not want that and that is a huge difference of opinion.

People on the left will call us racist and such but those people they are calling racist who are actually moderates will likely end up voting for right wing Populists in frustration. 

Okay, so where do they go then? We keep them in Syria where they'll be bombed, starved or slaughtered? It's crazy how little sympathy people have for others.



VGPolyglot said:
barneystinson69 said:

Really? I will put a bit of blame on the US, but colonialism has been dead for a long time. Its not Europe's fault if Libya isn't run properly, or if Syria decides to elect a war criminal as head of state. 

The United States armed militias that overthrew the Gaddafi government, and continue to bomb Libya, so it's not like Libya is the way it is solely on its own. Also, , you neglected to mention that Assad undemocratically became president, and if that the UK invaded Iraq too, and the U.S. has committed various atrocities, so Europe and the U.S. both have elected war criminals.

You completely left out how Europe has a whole has done anything. Only the UK was involved in invading Iraq. As far as I know, Europe has 740 million people, not 65 million...



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

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barneystinson69 said:
VGPolyglot said:

The United States armed militias that overthrew the Gaddafi government, and continue to bomb Libya, so it's not like Libya is the way it is solely on its own. Also, , you neglected to mention that Assad undemocratically became president, and if that the UK invaded Iraq too, and the U.S. has committed various atrocities, so Europe and the U.S. both have elected war criminals.

You completely left out how Europe has a whole has done anything. Only the UK was involved in invading Iraq. As far as I know, Europe has 740 million people, not 65 million...

Well, France has also been involved in Mali and has military bases in Africa, Russia has also been bombing Syria and Germany has financially backed wars including the Gulf War.



Soundwave said:
Norris2k said:

You started on ineluctability. Then added USA history as a reason. Then human nature, and then logic, and then morale. That's too many reasons, and that's because it's an ideology that you have, you want open border to happen and so seems to be leaders of Europe and USA.

I will tell you what is biased in your logic. You blame white people for being egotistic, immature, you can't stand the fact they are not grown up enough to share their places and wealth, and you just ignore the fact that immigrants coming from countries that are much worst regarding biggotry, ethnic and sexist biases, education, and intolerance are on average worst. Do you want to leave in a better place, or a worst place ? I don't really understand, are you that generous and great in your life, you give your money to improve other countries, you invite unchecked Syrian at your home, you adopt foreign orphans, you would find it nice if you lost your job to someone that just came illegally, you live abroad in non white country ? I can tell you, there are very sick and racist white people, but you, you also are a twisted kind of racist if you care about foreign poverty and misery but can only see your own people as fat ass gluton when so many are on food stamp, lost their good job, eat cheap shit every day and will never repay their debt.

 

1.) I never said "unchecked" immigration. Do I think some people deserve a shot at a better life? Sure. I believe in individual merit, and you are the one lumping all immigrants in under one broad brush. What about the many of them who are successful and work hard? 2.) I am speaking about America which is, whether they like it or not, a demographically diverse region and has been for a fair amount of time now. 40% of the population currently is an ethnic minority, for children under 18, this is almost 50% now. You are speaking from a European POV, well Europe isn't the be all, end all. For America to function properly they are going to have to learn to live together. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. 3.) I pay more than my fair share of taxes which go to social programs for everyone. Which I don't bemoan or look down upon people for. I don't look at people as "my own" or "other groups" as being in conflict. To me this isn't a comic book where you have 2D good guys and 2D bad guys. People are just people to me, maybe that's why you have problems understanding my POV. And yes, if we are to survive long term as a species we are going to have to learn to live with each other. The days where we could sit isolated in our little conclaves are in the past, we live in a world of mass transit, satellites, internet connection, etc. etc. etc. And the technology that will develop in the next 100 years will be even more startling. In 200-300 years we'll be off this planet entirely IMO.

1 - You avoid entirely my point. You call white people immature, fat asses, wealthy, and you can't see their individuality, so many being on food stamp, being nice, some being doctors, firefighters, some not having access to a proper education. Foreigners (from the USA perspective) don't have a background that make them better, nicer on average, but you can see their problems and individuality. So, I'm telling you you have a racist bias against white.

2 - I'm speaking from a European perspective ? I talking from MY perspective, respect that. This perspective could be or not be influenced by an European POV, but also by my life, travels, reading, general understanding of other perspectives and History, and you can't tell appart. You would hopefully not tell an India born American "you are talking from your Indian perspective", wether it's true or not.

3 - And then, and that's the classical pattern, the silver bullet, you assume I'm not understanding this whole new world, the necessity of living together, and new technologies. I'm a dinosaur, right ? Because it seems to matter to you, please check my background : my great father was Spanish, I'm French born, I speak 3 languages fluently, I'm working in new tech, in Japan, in an american IT company, I've spend quite a time abroad including poor countries, my daughter is half Japanese, I'm very much integrated and understanding this new world. I can love foreign culture, countries, and people, and still I think massive, illegal immigration from poor countries is a very bad thing. And alt-right is right on least when they tell that mainstream media, politics and some people like you are conducting a massive propaganda to tell people to shut up if they dare to have this opinion because they are racist, fat asses, immature and uneducated rich people.



Norris2k said:
Soundwave said:

 

1.) I never said "unchecked" immigration. Do I think some people deserve a shot at a better life? Sure. I believe in individual merit, and you are the one lumping all immigrants in under one broad brush. What about the many of them who are successful and work hard? 2.) I am speaking about America which is, whether they like it or not, a demographically diverse region and has been for a fair amount of time now. 40% of the population currently is an ethnic minority, for children under 18, this is almost 50% now. You are speaking from a European POV, well Europe isn't the be all, end all. For America to function properly they are going to have to learn to live together. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. 3.) I pay more than my fair share of taxes which go to social programs for everyone. Which I don't bemoan or look down upon people for. I don't look at people as "my own" or "other groups" as being in conflict. To me this isn't a comic book where you have 2D good guys and 2D bad guys. People are just people to me, maybe that's why you have problems understanding my POV. And yes, if we are to survive long term as a species we are going to have to learn to live with each other. The days where we could sit isolated in our little conclaves are in the past, we live in a world of mass transit, satellites, internet connection, etc. etc. etc. And the technology that will develop in the next 100 years will be even more startling. In 200-300 years we'll be off this planet entirely IMO.

1 - You avoid entirely my point. You call white people immature, fat asses, wealthy, and you can't see their individuality, so many being on food stamp, being nice, some being doctors, firefighters, some not having access to a proper education. Foreigners (from the USA perspective) don't have a background that make them better, nicer on average, but you can see their problems and individuality. So, I'm telling you you have a racist bias against white.

2 - I'm speaking from a European perspective ? I talking from MY perspective, respect that. This perspective could be or not be influenced by an European POV, but also by my life, travels, reading, general understanding of other perspectives and History, and you can't tell appart. You would hopefully not tell an India born American "you are talking from your Indian perspective", wether it's true or not.

3 - And then, and that's the classical pattern, the silver bullet, you assume I'm not understanding this whole new world, the necessity of living together, and new technologies. I'm a dinosaur, right ? Because it seems to matter to you, please check my background : my great father was Spanish, I'm French born, I speak 3 languages fluently, I'm working in new tech, in Japan, in an american IT company, I've spend quite a time abroad including poor countries, my daughter is half Japanese, I'm very much integrated and understanding this new world. I can love foreign culture, countries, and people, and still I think massive, illegal immigration from poor countries is a very bad thing. And alt-right is right on least when they tell that mainstream media, politics and some people like you are conducting a massive propaganda to tell people to shut up if they dare to have this opinion because they are racist, fat asses, immature and uneducated rich people.

I never called "all" people of any ethnicity anything. I am saying generally speaking people in the West are fairly priveleged.  If you have travelled the world, you probably would know this. And sure obesity is a massive problem in America.

You can have whatever opinion you want, lol. No one's stopping you. 

Personally "alt-right" is just a rebranding of white supremasit/neo-nazi movements. 

I am a "rich" person by the way, but now do I get co-opted into being an "elite" or whatever bullshit the "alt-right" (turd reich?) comes up with?

My personal world view is (how about this) I treat people like individuals. I don't lump them into groups due to skin color. Mind blowing concept, I know. People within an immediate family aren't even comparable, we see huge variance between siblings from the same family for example, yet we still see fit to judge people on ethnic groupings? What if we did this also for height (tall people are better than short people). I mean where does it stop before it gets so ridiculously stupid. 

Just for reference the white supremasist movement that is tied to "alt-right" (uh, turd reich?) also considers inter-breeded children as "mongrels", so before you huff and puff their virtues, think about that next time you espouse their virtues. It's all fun and games when it's not your particular ethnicity being picked on, but you think many of these people will look favorably on you (someone of non-Nordic/Germanic descent) with what they could call a "half-breed" daughter? 



VGPolyglot said:
WagnerPaiva said:

Absolutelly. That is why she lost the election, she is fli-flop politican that says whatever we want to hear, a phony.

And it is getting scary to be honest. Well intentioned people think the SJWs are improving society, but they are only making us weak, incapable of talking with people that think diferently than us, DENYING that people are different.

We should be able to talk with people with strong opinions without running to our proverbial safe spaces, that make us strong. Equal in value, different in characteristics.

I don't entirely understand that last paragraph, as it seems like many alt-right people are trying to censor egalitarian people too and don't even try to listen to what they have to say, and instead just denounce them all as "social justice warriors".

I do not see they defending real victms, I see our world going into a creep paranoid dystopia, like this:

And specially this:



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

Soundwave said:

I never called "all" people of any ethnicity anything. I am saying generally speaking people in the West are fairly priveleged.  If you have travelled the world, you probably would know this. And sure obesity is a massive problem in America.

You can have whatever opinion you want, lol. No one's stopping you. 

Personally "alt-right" is just a rebranding of white supremasit/neo-nazi movements. 

I am a "rich" person by the way, but now do I get co-opted into being an "elite" or whatever bullshit the "alt-right" (turd reich?) comes up with?

My personal world view is (how about this) I treat people like individuals. I don't lump them into groups due to skin color. Mind blowing concept, I know. People within an immediate family aren't even comparable, we see huge variance between siblings from the same family for example, yet we still see fit to judge people on ethnic groupings? What if we did this also for height (tall people are better than short people). I mean where does it stop before it gets so ridiculously stupid. 

Just for reference the white supremasist movement that is tied to "alt-right" (uh, turd reich?) also considers inter-breeded children as "mongrels", so before you huff and puff their virtues, think about that next time you espouse their virtues. It's all fun and games when it's not your particular ethnicity being picked on, but you think many of these people will look favorably on you (someone of non-Nordic/Germanic descent) with what they could call a "half-breed" daughter? 

Well, in term of travels, for example in India I met very nice, clever and helpful individuals, but I also saw a lot of average IT engineers living in nice appartements in enclosed areas with guards and walls, they come from very wealthy families, and have the belief that poverty for others is deserved God punition, not something to fix. Still I would not call any of them fat asses, immature. The poverty is unbearable in some places, very sad thing to see kids with no chance in life. But a big part of this problem is culture (religious beliefs, ethnical biases), education, and you can't just ignore that and see only the negative in white americans.

It's important to pick the good guys, blend new immigrants smoothly with local population and culture, take time, check backgrounds, restore borders. Whoever is ready to name call white people, call racists or dinosaurs anyone that have this common sense and balanced approach is as much crazy as the alt-right people you are talking about, because they are just supremacist in disguise that put white people on the low end of the ranking. You don't even think a white american family that has been there for 300 years has a say on limitating immigration. If you see someone telling an old black lady that she is a forced labor immigrant and tho has no say regarding immigration, that her opinion is an African perspective, and that she is lucky enough to be there, you would not be horrified ?

There are crazy opinions in alt-right also, still alt-right is right when they tell there is a massive propaganda calling people racist anyone against a level of immigration they consider destructive for themselves and their countries. You want me to pick a side, then well, I'm with people that don't have a crazy, unbalanced and destructive ideology (white supremacists and people that think only a white supremacist would see a problem in a massive immigration from poor countries). Let's love each other, including ourselves. There is a path, somewhat slow, for a better life for everyone. But if we don't care about the impact of immigration what we are heading for is a nightmare. The migrant crisis in Europe is not gonna make people more tolerant.