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Forums - Gaming - So the Scorpio....

vivster on 20 August 2016
AsGryffynn said:
vivster said:

1) There is no problem in having 2 versions of the same game. The better version will not be bogged down by low fidelity one. That's how graphic sliders work.

2) You will see some 4k games on 30fps, Developers don't feel obligated to release 1080p games in 60fps so they won't feel obligated to do this for games in 4k. You will however see a lot of games that run 1080p60 which would otherwise only run at 30fps on the weaker console.

3)Scorpio targets people who already own an X1 or always wanted to have one but haven't bought it yet, no one else and least PC players.

4) you won't see the Scorpio being more expensive than 699. Which doesn't matter though since it wouldn't see much more success even if it was sold for half of that.

You ask me why I think the scorpio will be a flop? See point 3.

Point three assumes people's impressions will be the same. They aren't. The Scorpio is a XONE but not the XONE people dislike. 

So you think more people will buy the Scorpio than the X1 because of..... reasons? Please tell me which mystical demographic will flock to the Scorpio that didn't to the X1?

People avoid buying X1 not because they dislike it but because they like PS4 and PC more. Scorpio won't change that.



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Snoopy on 20 August 2016

Honestly, I don't think I am getting an xbox scropio unless the graphics improve beyond resolution. Higher res is nice, but textures, lighting, AA, shadows,ect needs to be improve as well or else it will just look sharper. Im not a big rez guy. I just prefer xbox because the controller, xbl and their exclusive games appeal to me more.



Snoopy on 20 August 2016
vivster said:
AsGryffynn said:

Point three assumes people's impressions will be the same. They aren't. The Scorpio is a XONE but not the XONE people dislike. 

So you think more people will buy the Scorpio than the X1 because of..... reasons? Please tell me which mystical demographic will flock to the Scorpio that didn't to the X1?

People avoid buying X1 not because they dislike it but because they like PS4 and PC more. Scorpio won't change that.

A lot of people went out and bought an xbox s. People like new hardware and the one thing people bring up this generation as a negative for Microsoft is resolution (which I think is silly). Microsoft is going to have a huge library games coming out soon enough such as Forza, Gears, Sea of theives and more so that will help as well.



Fei-Hung on 20 August 2016
scrapking said:
Fei-Hung said:
I was thinking this will be priced at $399-450 or $450-499, but looking at what's been said about the cost of the card alone not including everything else needed that goes into a console, i can see this being between $699-750.

The cost of the chip alone might be $300. Add a TB hard drive, Bluetooth, wireless, Ram, audio chip, fan, casing, power unit, controller, logistics and retailer profit margin, this won't be cheap.

Remember that's the retail for the card.  While graphics cards are sold at a profit, game consoles are generally sold at cost, if not a loss.  So Microsoft will be paying wholesale and passing it on to consumers that way.  As for "retailer profit margin", I used to work in the games industry and there's little to no profit margin on the game consoles themselves.  That's been the way since Nintendo pioneered the "razor, razorblade" model starting in the mid-80s.  The consoles are sold by the manufacturer and the store nearly at cost, with everyone up and down the line hoping to sell games and accessories to make up for foregone profit on the console.  If you adjust the pre-NES game consoles for inflation you'll discover they were amazingly expensive, because those old consoles *were* sold at a mark-up by the manufacturer, and then by the store who marked it up further.  Last I checked, a Mattel Intellivision (circa 1980) would cost over $1200 at launch in today's dollars!  It's probably more than that now.

Be suspicious of console system tear-downs too, as they are only guessing at what console manufacturers actually pay for the components.

I was thinking that even at manufacturer cost, the card will be expensive from the sounds of things. If what's been said is the card alone is as much as retail ps3 at release, knocking a $100 off still is $399 for the 20GB model. If he was referring to the cost of manufacturing a ps3, then a $100 off would be $700. 

 

Even when bulk buying from the manufacturer, card costs don't drop that dramatically where you are paying 1/3rd off, especially if it's a brand new card. 



Manlytears on 20 August 2016

Do you guys realy think Scorpion will deliver 4K and 60fps whit no compromise, or is this just Xbox executives talking bullshit?
I mean, sure, it's possible, but a mchine that can run current gen games at 4K and 60fps whit no compromise, this thing will be a monster and will most likely cost $700-800, that price is just too much!
I think scorpion will work whit upscale, just like NEO, and will be priced at $500-600, and no more than this, 4k 60 fps is just too much for current gen games like battlefront.



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Intrinsic on 20 August 2016
shikamaru317 said:

1. They have previously stated that Scorpio can have exclusives, the choice is up to devs ultimately, though MS hopes that devs will support both XB1 and Scorpio. 

2. Devs are not required to aim for 4K. MS has admitted that the only way games will be able to run at native 4K is if they're visually identical to their XB1 counterparts (so PC medium equivalent, not PC ultra).

3. The goal is not to win over PC users, but to offer an option for the wealthier players who prefer a console experience.

4. The price is not going to exceed $600, you can quote me on that. The specs are not that much higher than Neo, which is rumored to cost $400 with the leaked specs or $500 with an upgrade that still puts it below Scorpio. In fact, MS will probably sell at a small loss if necessary to hit $500.

  1. They have confirmed that Scorpio will not hsbe any exclusive games. With exception to VR games which can be playwd on it. 

  2. Decs don't have to make anything 4k. The scorpio and neo would probably have internal scalers that would output at 4k no matter what unless the tv just doesn't support it. All devs have to do is get their internal engine native resolution as close to 4k as possible to minimize upscaling artifacts. kinda like how XB1 games are native 900p yet output at 1080p. 

  3. Agreed. To add to this I'll just say it's all about options. I keep saying this, that what these new consoles basically represent are 1080p and 4k options. 

  4. The funniest thing about this whole pricing thing, is that be it scorpio or Neo, it doesn't really matter what price it comes in at. The price is completely irrelevant cause on TV what you will still see is starting at $299 or whatever the lowest costing sku costs. MS can make it $800 for all they care, all that matter is if there is value in the box. If you can't get similar performance anywhere else for less money. Those that can afford it will buy it. In time the price will come down and more would be able to afford it. 


AsGryffynn on 20 August 2016
vivster said:
AsGryffynn said:

Point three assumes people's impressions will be the same. They aren't. The Scorpio is a XONE but not the XONE people dislike. 

So you think more people will buy the Scorpio than the X1 because of..... reasons? Please tell me which mystical demographic will flock to the Scorpio that didn't to the X1?

People avoid buying X1 not because they dislike it but because they like PS4 and PC more. Scorpio won't change that.

They will do it because the console will be more powerful and probably span more than one generation (and after a while, its price will drop accordingly). The demographic will be the XONE demographic, the PC demographic that wants an easy to use system and people yet to buy a console. 

They like the PS4 the same they liked the PS3 before. A lot of the modern PS4 fans were Xbox 360 fans who changed sides thanks to power, now that Xbox will once more hold superiority over its rivals, they will happily switch back. After all, save for the power problem, I've noticed most Xbox Outcasts seem... disatisfied with the PS4 (and Sony's online service and business model in general). 

People won't like the PS4 more once an alternative that is better supersedes it. Think of this as a generation that starts early, but who will last three gens afterwards. Think of what would've happened if the Xbox 360 S had been as powerful as the PS4 when it released... 

 

That's what will happen. People like the better equipment, not a brand. The reason Sony has more followers and the reason the Xbox doesn't is related both to power and the games library, which are ironically linked. 

If you feel like bashing the XONE or Microsoft in general, feel free to. Just don't expect I will allow it to go unnoticed. 



Pemalite on 20 August 2016
drkohler said:

Pemalite said:

 

Everything will be abstracted.
So yes "the problem has been solved".

 

Wishful thinking. Go talk to a developer who actually has low-level programmed on the PS4/X1. Get some insight and don't pretend there is some "magical switch". There isn't. There is a reason why some games run well and other games do not, particularly on the X1.

How do you know that I haven't done development?

Again. Everything can be abstracted, the developer doesn't even need to know the eSRAM even exists if done right, perhaps should get some more insight into how things work? ;)




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Guitarguy on 21 August 2016
shikamaru317 said:

1. They have previously stated that Scorpio can have exclusives, the choice is up to devs ultimately, though MS hopes that devs will support both XB1 and Scorpio. 

2. Devs are not required to aim for 4K. MS has admitted that the only way games will be able to run at native 4K is if they're visually identical to their XB1 counterparts (so PC medium equivalent, not PC ultra).

3. The goal is not to win over PC users, but to offer an option for the wealthier players who prefer a console experience.

4. The price is not going to exceed $600, you can quote me on that. The specs are not that much higher than Neo, which is rumored to cost $400 with the leaked specs or $500 with an upgrade that still puts it below Scorpio. In fact, MS will probably sell at a small loss if necessary to hit $500.

Only when it comes to VR games. I have yet to find a quote saying that Scorpio can have exclusives.  I could very well be wrong though. I do see MS allowing for Scorpio exclusive games further down the line as they have flip flopped before on policies.



Azzanation on 21 August 2016

Scorpio wont be aiming at 4k/60frames. It will be 4k/30 or 1080p-1440p/60frames. My future gaming PC will have 9tf and still cant achieve 4k/60 with everything on.