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Forums - Nintendo - MCV: NX Graphics In Between A PS3 And PS4

oniyide on 07 August 2016
GhaudePhaede010 said:
oniyide said:

You'll get no argument from me in that regard and thats great...for Japan. That doesnt really do much for the prospect outside of their native land especially since the NX might not even get the games that people outside of Japan kinda care about. Your FFs, KHs, REs etc.

While I doubt FF will get there, RE: Revelations was first released on 3DS and then ported to consoles. There comes a point where people begin to realize these hand helds are rapidly approaching console games in terms of quality; maybe not graphically, however. Monster Hunter for example, is a complete console game on a hand held. This console may not get ports, but to think it cannot get its own worthy titles from some of those franchises (Final Fantasy aside) would be a little prematurely pessimistic.

I never said handhelds cant get quality console like games. I bought PSP and Vita for that very reason. RE Revelations proves my point, good game, but at the end of a day its NOT RE 5, 6 or 7 its still considered a spinoff game and that will deter some people no matter how good it is. As for graphics, we have to be real, the audience for people who care about that is dwindling by the year or they are satisfied with there tablets/phones which produce games that do look console quality. Thats not me being a pessimist, thats me looking at numbers and seeing the steady decline of dedicated portable systems.



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Soundwave on 07 August 2016

PSP and Vita were still way too far behind their equivalent consoles to have direct ports, I think NX will be different.

I think NX is also a much larger tablet form factor, no way is this a tiny little portable having detachable controller sides or being able to run a Tegra X1 either.

This concept like it or not, really hasn't been done before in gaming to this extent any time recently. 



GhaudePhaede010 on 07 August 2016
oniyide said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

While I doubt FF will get there, RE: Revelations was first released on 3DS and then ported to consoles. There comes a point where people begin to realize these hand helds are rapidly approaching console games in terms of quality; maybe not graphically, however. Monster Hunter for example, is a complete console game on a hand held. This console may not get ports, but to think it cannot get its own worthy titles from some of those franchises (Final Fantasy aside) would be a little prematurely pessimistic.

I never said handhelds cant get quality console like games. I bought PSP and Vita for that very reason. RE Revelations proves my point, good game, but at the end of a day its NOT RE 5, 6 or 7 its still considered a spinoff game and that will deter some people no matter how good it is. As for graphics, we have to be real, the audience for people who care about that is dwindling by the year or they are satisfied with there tablets/phones which produce games that do look console quality. Thats not me being a pessimist, thats me looking at numbers and seeing the steady decline of dedicated portable systems.

I do not think you understood the point of my post. My point was that improving hardware for hand helds is making it easier for franchises to create console quality titles. No, it may not get direct ports, but if the hardware is above Wii U level, then it is not unreasonable to say developers will at least try to make a mainline title or two for the console. The hardware gap is not as huge as it once was. It may not get ports, but it does not need them. It does not need Resident Evil 5, 6, or 7 when Resident Evil: Revelations was so good that it got ported to consoles. You do not have to make a game and then downgrade it anymore, you can make a game and upgade it now because the hardware the gap has closed that much. That is how I think this console can fit into the market alongside those other consoles if the rumors are true. Hypothetically, you can make Resident Evil 8 on NX and then upgrade it (graphically mostly) to PS4 or XBOX one. There is nothing stopping developers from doing that on a content level any longer. The hardware does not stop them.

The graphical argument was simply added to keep an understanding that I meant my comment from a content and game play presective and not from a graphical prespective. I understand there will be people that say the game will not be the same graphically but I am seeing that content wise, they can pull this off. 



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curl-6 on 07 August 2016
Soundwave said:

And while people will say "you can't just scale GFLOPS and RAM bandwidth like that", it is still true that rendering any game at 1/4th or 1/3rd the resolution requires a massively lower amount of hardware resources any way you slice it. 

It is less demanding in terms of pixel fillrate and framebuffer size, but those aren't the only possible bottlenecks games can run up against. For instance, you couldn't run Uncharted 4 on Wii U, even at 480p, because you wouldn't have enough CPU power to run all the physics/simulation/AI/animation, you wouldn't have enough RAM to store all the assets, etc.



Soundwave on 07 August 2016
curl-6 said:
Soundwave said:

And while people will say "you can't just scale GFLOPS and RAM bandwidth like that", it is still true that rendering any game at 1/4th or 1/3rd the resolution requires a massively lower amount of hardware resources any way you slice it. 

It is less demanding in terms of pixel fillrate and framebuffer size, but those aren't the only possible bottlenecks games can run up against. For instance, you couldn't run Uncharted 4 on Wii U, even at 480p, because you wouldn't have enough CPU power to run all the physics/simulation/AI/animation, you wouldn't have enough RAM to store all the assets, etc.

Interesting thing about that is a source at NeoGaf has said CPU wise, the NX apparently is better than the PS4 (which isn't saying a ton since the PS4 CPU is weak). 

But ok, lets say the NX has an equal better CPU + say 4-6GB of RAM ... what else would be the hold up?



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curl-6 on 07 August 2016
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

It is less demanding in terms of pixel fillrate and framebuffer size, but those aren't the only possible bottlenecks games can run up against. For instance, you couldn't run Uncharted 4 on Wii U, even at 480p, because you wouldn't have enough CPU power to run all the physics/simulation/AI/animation, you wouldn't have enough RAM to store all the assets, etc.

Interesting thing about that is a source at NeoGaf has said CPU wise, the NX apparently is better than the PS4 (which isn't saying a ton since the PS4 CPU is weak). 

But ok, lets say the NX has an equal better CPU + say 4-6GB of RAM ... what else would be the hold up?

PS4's CPU is pretty crappy, true, but if NX is portable it's not going to be able to afford a big/fast/hot/power-hungry CPU either.

Other bottlenecks could include RAM bandwidth, number of TMUs/shader cores, etc.



Soundwave on 07 August 2016

I guess we will have to see which games continue to get announced for this thing. If there's more PS4/XB1 titles like Sonic and Dragon Quest XI that keep getting announced it must be capable of some degree of ports.

Also the Nvidia Hotchips convention on Aug 22 will show us the Tegra X2, that will be interesting to watch.



fatslob-:O on 07 August 2016
curl-6 said:

PS4's CPU is pretty crappy, true, but if NX is portable it's not going to be able to afford a big/fast/hot/power-hungry CPU either.

Other bottlenecks could include RAM bandwidth, number of TMUs/shader cores, etc.

Oh and don't forget about the rasterizers too since those are important for filling your G-buffer and doing shadow map rendering but these passes can be effectively free on consoles if you do some async compute to which the same could not be said for most Nvidia GPUs out there so that just further exasperates the NX's rendering budget ...



oniyide on 07 August 2016
Soundwave said:

PSP and Vita were still way too far behind their equivalent consoles to have direct ports, I think NX will be different.

I think NX is also a much larger tablet form factor, no way is this a tiny little portable having detachable controller sides or being able to run a Tegra X1 either.

This concept like it or not, really hasn't been done before in gaming to this extent any time recently. 

you can grab any tablet and buy a buy a controller for it. Its not that different



oniyide on 08 August 2016
GhaudePhaede010 said:
oniyide said:

I never said handhelds cant get quality console like games. I bought PSP and Vita for that very reason. RE Revelations proves my point, good game, but at the end of a day its NOT RE 5, 6 or 7 its still considered a spinoff game and that will deter some people no matter how good it is. As for graphics, we have to be real, the audience for people who care about that is dwindling by the year or they are satisfied with there tablets/phones which produce games that do look console quality. Thats not me being a pessimist, thats me looking at numbers and seeing the steady decline of dedicated portable systems.

I do not think you understood the point of my post. My point was that improving hardware for hand helds is making it easier for franchises to create console quality titles. No, it may not get direct ports, but if the hardware is above Wii U level, then it is not unreasonable to say developers will at least try to make a mainline title or two for the console. The hardware gap is not as huge as it once was. It may not get ports, but it does not need them. It does not need Resident Evil 5, 6, or 7 when Resident Evil: Revelations was so good that it got ported to consoles. You do not have to make a game and then downgrade it anymore, you can make a game and upgade it now because the hardware the gap has closed that much. That is how I think this console can fit into the market alongside those other consoles if the rumors are true. Hypothetically, you can make Resident Evil 8 on NX and then upgrade it (graphically mostly) to PS4 or XBOX one. There is nothing stopping developers from doing that on a content level any longer. The hardware does not stop them.

The graphical argument was simply added to keep an understanding that I meant my comment from a content and game play presective and not from a graphical prespective. I understand there will be people that say the game will not be the same graphically but I am seeing that content wise, they can pull this off. 

Re Revelations probably got ported because it didnt sell enough on 3ds for Capcom (good move looking at sales of PS3 version) thats the only reason that makes real sense. Other that that I agree with you. I just dont think the general audience will really give a damn either way. If they did portable gaming wouldnt be on the decline like it already is IMHO.