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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is the Xbox One dying faster than the 3DS? Is XOne overtracked?

Swordmasterman said:
Qwark said:

Do tell which Nintendo console outsold the Xbox 360 outside of the Wii. Xbox is perfectly capable to compete with Sony and Nintendo the Xbox 360 proved that. The Xbox 360 has beaten the PS3 and every Nintendo console outside the Wii. The Xone could manage 50 million if Scorpio is successful. With that it also outsells the SNES, N64, GC and the Wii U. So I wouldn't rule MS out when they bring out their best they can compete with the best Sony and Nintendo have to offer.

To be fair, Nintendo's best is in the handheld market and Sony's best is in the home console market. The Xbox 360 sold a little less than PS3 life-time a little before the launch of the PS4 and Xbox One (360 launched 1 year early). So, as of now, the Xbox Family only out-sold the 3DS's numbers with the 360 and din't out-sold a single Sony's home console,but was close to.

Fair enough but I don´t consider the handheld and hoeconsole market to be directly comparable. But if you do than MS indeed can´t really compete with Sony and Nintendo.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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Shadow1980 said:

The thread title suggests the XBO is dying, and furthermore it tries to compare a console brand that historically does most of its business in America and the UK with a handheld that is strong in most of the world and especially in Japan. In regards to the second point I think a better comparison would be the XBO to the 360, for obvious reasons. In regards to the first point, there is no evidence to suggest that the XBO is "dying" or otherwise past its peak (except in Japan, where it's significantly down from last year, which was itself awful). Let's take a look at the XBO's performance in the U.S. compared to that of the 360:

As we can see, the XBO is doing fine compared to the 360 so far. The key words there being "so far." It had a much better launch than the 360 did, plus its sales for the whole year in 2014 and 2015 were about 12% and 7% bigger respectively than the 360's performances in 2006 and 2007. However, there are some caveats here. You probably noticed that a huge part of the XBO's lead comes from the holidays, whereas outside the holidays the XBO has been doing not quite as well as the 360. For the Jan.-Oct. period of 2014, the XBO sold over 19% fewer units than the 360 did in the same period in 2006. For Jan.-Oct. 2015 it sold almost 13% fewer units than the 360 did in Jan.-Oct. 2007 period; the 360's did have the advantage of Halo 3, though, which was a massive system-seller, and for the Jan.-Aug. period the XBO sold only 1% fewer units than the 360 did in the same period in '07. Finally, through the first half of this year the XBO has sold 17% fewer units than the 360 did. Deep price cuts during the holidays have proven critical in maintaining the XBO's lead over the 360.

The XBO S being released next month will almost certain provide a massive boost for the XBO. The second half of this year should prove to be better than the second half of 2008 did for the 360, and 2017 as a whole will almost certainly be bigger than 2016, which will make it sell better than the 360 did in 2009. But beyond that? Well, the XBO is getting its slim model exactly two years before the 360 got its. This is going to cause the XBO to peak sooner than the 360 did. Furthermore, the XBO, regardless of how its sales during the year have been distributed so far, is nevertheless already more front-loaded than the 360, and the XBO S coming out two years before the 360 S will make it even more front-loaded. We have to remember how back-loaded the 360 was. It did not peak until 2011. Here's what the XBO has to look forward to in the future:

What's going to happen is come August 2018 the XBO's sales curve will likely be cresting if not already past its peak and it'll be running into the same point in the 360's life when the 360 S was released (that big uptick we see in the middle of the year in the middle of the chart). At that point, whatever increase in the XBO-360 gap in the XBO's favor will start to reverse. By how much, though? Will the gap close and the 360 reassert its lead in aligned LTD sales? I think it will.

Given how no two systems ever maintain geometrically similar sales curves, there's simply no reason to think the XBO will maintain its lead over the 360 in the long run. So far the 360 has sold about 43 million units in the U.S., making it the second-best selling console in U.S. history. It got to that level by simply trouncing the PS3. The PS3 has sold only around 26.7M units. That puts combined 360+PS3 sales at about 69.7M. That ought to give us a good estimate of the overall market size for conventional consoles in the U.S. Given how it is performing relative to the PS4's sales, we should probably assume that eventually the XBO will stop tracking ahead of the 360 and fall behind. If we assumed that the XBO continued tracking ahead of the 360, that would come with the further assumption that the XBO could surpass the PS2, and given how the PS4 has been the leading console this generation, that could potentially mean the PS4 could sell 50M or more in the U.S. We'd be talking about 90+ million units between the two. Considering the U.S. is about 40% of the global combined PS+Xbox market, that would entail a global tally somewhere on the order of 225 million units, some 48 million more than the global 360+PS3 total. We're obviously not going to see anything like that.

A reasonable assumption is that the PS4 & XBO sell between 65-75 million units combined in the U.S., plus or minus several million. Based on current market share trends this generation, I'm projecting 32.5M for the XBO and 37.5M for the PS4 in the U.S., plus or minus 2M for both. Based on the U.S.'s share of both systems', for global lifetime sales I'm projecting 50-60M for the XBO and 100-115M for the PS4.

TL;DR, the XBO isn't dying. It's doing quite well for now. However, it almost certainly will not sell anywhere close to what the 360 did, either globally or in the U.S.

I think with the one S we will see Xbox catch up globally in the US. Its going to sell really well. 



Xbrah said:
Shadow1980 said:

The thread title suggests the XBO is dying, and furthermore it tries to compare a console brand that historically does most of its business in America and the UK with a handheld that is strong in most of the world and especially in Japan. In regards to the second point I think a better comparison would be the XBO to the 360, for obvious reasons. In regards to the first point, there is no evidence to suggest that the XBO is "dying" or otherwise past its peak (except in Japan, where it's significantly down from last year, which was itself awful). Let's take a look at the XBO's performance in the U.S. compared to that of the 360:

As we can see, the XBO is doing fine compared to the 360 so far. The key words there being "so far." It had a much better launch than the 360 did, plus its sales for the whole year in 2014 and 2015 were about 12% and 7% bigger respectively than the 360's performances in 2006 and 2007. However, there are some caveats here. You probably noticed that a huge part of the XBO's lead comes from the holidays, whereas outside the holidays the XBO has been doing not quite as well as the 360. For the Jan.-Oct. period of 2014, the XBO sold over 19% fewer units than the 360 did in the same period in 2006. For Jan.-Oct. 2015 it sold almost 13% fewer units than the 360 did in Jan.-Oct. 2007 period; the 360's did have the advantage of Halo 3, though, which was a massive system-seller, and for the Jan.-Aug. period the XBO sold only 1% fewer units than the 360 did in the same period in '07. Finally, through the first half of this year the XBO has sold 17% fewer units than the 360 did. Deep price cuts during the holidays have proven critical in maintaining the XBO's lead over the 360.

The XBO S being released next month will almost certain provide a massive boost for the XBO. The second half of this year should prove to be better than the second half of 2008 did for the 360, and 2017 as a whole will almost certainly be bigger than 2016, which will make it sell better than the 360 did in 2009. But beyond that? Well, the XBO is getting its slim model exactly two years before the 360 got its. This is going to cause the XBO to peak sooner than the 360 did. Furthermore, the XBO, regardless of how its sales during the year have been distributed so far, is nevertheless already more front-loaded than the 360, and the XBO S coming out two years before the 360 S will make it even more front-loaded. We have to remember how back-loaded the 360 was. It did not peak until 2011. Here's what the XBO has to look forward to in the future:

What's going to happen is come August 2018 the XBO's sales curve will likely be cresting if not already past its peak and it'll be running into the same point in the 360's life when the 360 S was released (that big uptick we see in the middle of the year in the middle of the chart). At that point, whatever increase in the XBO-360 gap in the XBO's favor will start to reverse. By how much, though? Will the gap close and the 360 reassert its lead in aligned LTD sales? I think it will.

Given how no two systems ever maintain geometrically similar sales curves, there's simply no reason to think the XBO will maintain its lead over the 360 in the long run. So far the 360 has sold about 43 million units in the U.S., making it the second-best selling console in U.S. history. It got to that level by simply trouncing the PS3. The PS3 has sold only around 26.7M units. That puts combined 360+PS3 sales at about 69.7M. That ought to give us a good estimate of the overall market size for conventional consoles in the U.S. Given how it is performing relative to the PS4's sales, we should probably assume that eventually the XBO will stop tracking ahead of the 360 and fall behind. If we assumed that the XBO continued tracking ahead of the 360, that would come with the further assumption that the XBO could surpass the PS2, and given how the PS4 has been the leading console this generation, that could potentially mean the PS4 could sell 50M or more in the U.S. We'd be talking about 90+ million units between the two. Considering the U.S. is about 40% of the global combined PS+Xbox market, that would entail a global tally somewhere on the order of 225 million units, some 48 million more than the global 360+PS3 total. We're obviously not going to see anything like that.

A reasonable assumption is that the PS4 & XBO sell between 65-75 million units combined in the U.S., plus or minus several million. Based on current market share trends this generation, I'm projecting 32.5M for the XBO and 37.5M for the PS4 in the U.S., plus or minus 2M for both. Based on the U.S.'s share of both systems', for global lifetime sales I'm projecting 50-60M for the XBO and 100-115M for the PS4.

TL;DR, the XBO isn't dying. It's doing quite well for now. However, it almost certainly will not sell anywhere close to what the 360 did, either globally or in the U.S.

I think with the one S we will see Xbox catch up globally in the US. Its going to sell really well. 

You mean Life-time sales ?



Yes



MS, Sony and big 3rd parties have pretty much abandoned non holiday months. XB1 vastly outsells 3DS during the holiday months to make up for its losses in the earlier months. If MS keeps finding ways to push XB1 during the holidays then its sales trends will continue to do well in US and UK.

In US XB1 is only 1-2m away from PS4 and will likely end 5-10m away. So if PS4 sells 40m, then XB1 will end up with at least 30m.

Likewise for UK except smaller numbers. So XB1 is guaranteed ~40m LTD, the rest is not guaranteed. Of course it all depends on how long this gen lasts for XB1, we have at least 2 more good holidays for XB1 as old gen consoles always do well even with new gen consoles launching.



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Xbrah said:
Shadow1980 said:

The thread title suggests the XBO is dying, and furthermore it tries to compare a console brand that historically does most of its business in America and the UK with a handheld that is strong in most of the world and especially in Japan. In regards to the second point I think a better comparison would be the XBO to the 360, for obvious reasons. In regards to the first point, there is no evidence to suggest that the XBO is "dying" or otherwise past its peak (except in Japan, where it's significantly down from last year, which was itself awful). Let's take a look at the XBO's performance in the U.S. compared to that of the 360:

As we can see, the XBO is doing fine compared to the 360 so far. The key words there being "so far." It had a much better launch than the 360 did, plus its sales for the whole year in 2014 and 2015 were about 12% and 7% bigger respectively than the 360's performances in 2006 and 2007. However, there are some caveats here. You probably noticed that a huge part of the XBO's lead comes from the holidays, whereas outside the holidays the XBO has been doing not quite as well as the 360. For the Jan.-Oct. period of 2014, the XBO sold over 19% fewer units than the 360 did in the same period in 2006. For Jan.-Oct. 2015 it sold almost 13% fewer units than the 360 did in Jan.-Oct. 2007 period; the 360's did have the advantage of Halo 3, though, which was a massive system-seller, and for the Jan.-Aug. period the XBO sold only 1% fewer units than the 360 did in the same period in '07. Finally, through the first half of this year the XBO has sold 17% fewer units than the 360 did. Deep price cuts during the holidays have proven critical in maintaining the XBO's lead over the 360.

The XBO S being released next month will almost certain provide a massive boost for the XBO. The second half of this year should prove to be better than the second half of 2008 did for the 360, and 2017 as a whole will almost certainly be bigger than 2016, which will make it sell better than the 360 did in 2009. But beyond that? Well, the XBO is getting its slim model exactly two years before the 360 got its. This is going to cause the XBO to peak sooner than the 360 did. Furthermore, the XBO, regardless of how its sales during the year have been distributed so far, is nevertheless already more front-loaded than the 360, and the XBO S coming out two years before the 360 S will make it even more front-loaded. We have to remember how back-loaded the 360 was. It did not peak until 2011. Here's what the XBO has to look forward to in the future:

What's going to happen is come August 2018 the XBO's sales curve will likely be cresting if not already past its peak and it'll be running into the same point in the 360's life when the 360 S was released (that big uptick we see in the middle of the year in the middle of the chart). At that point, whatever increase in the XBO-360 gap in the XBO's favor will start to reverse. By how much, though? Will the gap close and the 360 reassert its lead in aligned LTD sales? I think it will.

Given how no two systems ever maintain geometrically similar sales curves, there's simply no reason to think the XBO will maintain its lead over the 360 in the long run. So far the 360 has sold about 43 million units in the U.S., making it the second-best selling console in U.S. history. It got to that level by simply trouncing the PS3. The PS3 has sold only around 26.7M units. That puts combined 360+PS3 sales at about 69.7M. That ought to give us a good estimate of the overall market size for conventional consoles in the U.S. Given how it is performing relative to the PS4's sales, we should probably assume that eventually the XBO will stop tracking ahead of the 360 and fall behind. If we assumed that the XBO continued tracking ahead of the 360, that would come with the further assumption that the XBO could surpass the PS2, and given how the PS4 has been the leading console this generation, that could potentially mean the PS4 could sell 50M or more in the U.S. We'd be talking about 90+ million units between the two. Considering the U.S. is about 40% of the global combined PS+Xbox market, that would entail a global tally somewhere on the order of 225 million units, some 48 million more than the global 360+PS3 total. We're obviously not going to see anything like that.

A reasonable assumption is that the PS4 & XBO sell between 65-75 million units combined in the U.S., plus or minus several million. Based on current market share trends this generation, I'm projecting 32.5M for the XBO and 37.5M for the PS4 in the U.S., plus or minus 2M for both. Based on the U.S.'s share of both systems', for global lifetime sales I'm projecting 50-60M for the XBO and 100-115M for the PS4.

TL;DR, the XBO isn't dying. It's doing quite well for now. However, it almost certainly will not sell anywhere close to what the 360 did, either globally or in the U.S.

I think with the one S we will see Xbox catch up globally in the US. Its going to sell really well. 

Nothing suports that claim, actually quite the oposite from the preorders on amazon. It had a big spark that dint even last a week, then the ps4 countinued to out sell it.

Again, the one s wont be that big, cuz for the first time in video games history, a slim version jacked up the price instead of lowering it. The old one went down, but that one lost its appeal as soon as the slim and scorpio where anounced.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Shadow1980 said:

The thread title suggests the XBO is dying, and furthermore it tries to compare a console brand that historically does most of its business in America and the UK with a handheld that is strong in most of the world and especially in Japan. In regards to the second point I think a better comparison would be the XBO to the 360, for obvious reasons. In regards to the first point, there is no evidence to suggest that the XBO is "dying" or otherwise past its peak (except in Japan, where it's significantly down from last year, which was itself awful). Let's take a look at the XBO's performance in the U.S. compared to that of the 360

 

.

TL;DR, the XBO isn't dying. It's doing quite well for now. However, it almost certainly will not sell anywhere close to what the 360 did, either globally or in the U.S.

WoW that's some great graphs.
And as people can see, the XB1 is doing very well and will outpace the XB360 until 2017 at least
Both on a Lifetime and Yearly sales base.

The XB1 will sell over 5million units this year (XB1S launch) and next year (XB Scorpio launch)
2018 will be the real test and i can see XB1 sold through number in the US falling behind XB360. But even at the end of 2018, the XB1 will be ahead of the XB360 LTD wise.

People just underestimate the Xbox brand and sales power in the US, because the PS4 is doing so incredible well.
But that does not make the XB1 perfom bad.

eva01beserk said:
Xbrah said:

I think with the one S we will see Xbox catch up globally in the US. Its going to sell really well. 

Nothing suports that claim, actually quite the oposite from the preorders on amazon. It had a big spark that dint even last a week, then the ps4 countinued to out sell it.

Again, the one s wont be that big, cuz for the first time in video games history, a slim version jacked up the price instead of lowering it. The old one went down, but that one lost its appeal as soon as the slim and scorpio where anounced.

Nothing supports your claim
A slim version always increased the sales of the console. Not only a temporarily spike, but also the baseline. XB360 Slim did. Ps3 Slim did. Ps2 Slim did.
The XB1S is cheaper than the original XB1. $299 vs $349 for the base Model. Don't use stock clearance Pricepoints as comparsion, lol
The XB1S will be a big deal. It's new. It's cheaper. It's better. All the stuff, that consumer like.



I seriously don't know, but from what I'm told, the 3DS is doing piss-poor, while the X1 is perfectly fine. I don't know why and I don't care anymore. Whatever, I'm gonna play some 3DS now. Just got Nintendo Pocket Football Club and that game is addicting as hell! I don't even know why I can't stop playing, it's just the same over and over again and I can't even find good combinations with the training cards. Man, I suck at this game... oh, sorry, I'm kinda missing the topic here! =D



Official member of VGC's Nintendo family, approved by the one and only RolStoppable. I feel honored.

Comparing their sales if you align them from when they were launched, the story looks like this:

And I'm only doing their first 2 full years, since the Xbox One is still only 3/4ths into it's 3rd year.

Nintendo 3DS

Year 1 sales - Feb. 26, 2011 - Feb. 25, 2012 - 14,361,871 -
Year 2 sales - Feb. 26, 2012 - Feb. 23, 2013 - 27,693,898 -

Notable releases/events - (Launch of the Nintendo 3DS XL, Super Mario 3D Land, New Super Mario Bros. 2, Mario Kart 7, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, and Fire Emblem: Awakening. (the last 2 were only released in Japan by the end of Year 2.))

Xbox One

Year 1 sales - Nov. 23, 2013 - Nov. 22, 2014 - 7,768,163 -
Year 2 sales - Nov. 23, 2013 - Nov. 21, 2015 - 16,074,006 -

Notable releases/events - (Launch in China, Halo 5: Guardians, Halo: The Master Chief Collection, Gears of War: Ultimate Edition, Forza Horizon 2, Forza Motorsport 5 & 6, some big 3rd party releases such as the COD series, Grand Theft Auto 5, FIFA, NBA 2K, Assassin's Creed, etc.

So for their first 2 years, the 3DS is ahead of the Xbox One, by a pretty comfortable margin I might add, but there is still A LOT that these 2 systems had left in the tank, or still have in the case of the Xbox One.
As it heads into it's 3rd complete year, the Xbox One is expecting to launch its slim model, the Xbox One S, later this year, along with Gears of War 4 and ReCore, and then there's Project Scorpio that's looming on the horizon as well! The system will also continue to get strong 3rd party support which will definitely help extend its life cycle a good year or two.
But on the 3DS' side of things, within its 3rd year it got its number 1 superstar title, its very own Pokemon game in the form of Pokemon X/Y, a few more notable games that launched in its 3rd year include, Luigi's Mansion 2, Tomodachi Life, Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, Monster Hunter 4, the localizations of Animal Crossing: New Leaf and Fire Emblem: Awakening, Mario Party: Island Tour, and The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds, finally, the 2DS launched in that year as well, and I'm also not sure about this, but I think development for the New Nintendo 3DS models started around this time period.
So it should definitely be interesting to see how this plays out!



fleischr said:
RolStoppable said:
Outside of the USA and UK? The answer ranges from probably to certainly. But in the USA and UK, the Xbox One doesn't sell much worse than the PS4, with the gap in lifetime sales being quite modest.

Is it overtracked? That's hard to tell when there are no shipment numbers to compare against. Also, VGC hardware estimates have been very suspect in recent times, so all systems are either probably or definitely overtracked.

But with X1 getting some kind of price cut every 2-3 weeks, that premise seems a bit faulty doesn't it? Assuming both systems are stocked similarly. If it really were selling at the same clip as PS4, it wouldn't need so many extra price cuts on top of the existing price advantage.

Didn't the 360 absolutely trounce the PS3 in the US?  To me that is really telling but I never see people mention it.  I think Aquamarine released US numbers of a gap nearly 2 million in favor of ps4.  That's a huge shift.  If everything keeps going as is the Xbox one will either lose to the ps4 or sell even with it and that follows its predecessor beating the PS3 by like 20 million in the US.



l <---- Do you mean this glitch Gribble?  If not, I'll keep looking.  

 

 

 

 

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