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Forums - Sony - Playstation: 21 Million PS+ Subscribers

Mummelmann said:
How much is the PS4 overtracked in here anyway? If it "passed 40 million" at the end of june/start of july, and we have it at 40.7 million at the beginning of may? That has to be at least 1-1.5 million, yet again, we're really not getting it right this year, are we.

It says in the image in the OP the 40 million figure is as of may 22nd. As it's a rounded figure the overtracking could be anywhere from 0 to 1 million. We'll just have to wait for Sony to give their next definitive figure.



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Barkley said:
Mummelmann said:
How much is the PS4 overtracked in here anyway? If it "passed 40 million" at the end of june/start of july, and we have it at 40.7 million at the beginning of may? That has to be at least 1-1.5 million, yet again, we're really not getting it right this year, are we.

It says in the image in the OP the 40 million figure is as of may 22nd. As it's a rounded figure the overtracking could be anywhere from 0 to 1 million. We'll just have to wait for Sony to give their next definitive figure.

We've been terrible at tracking the PS4 this year, Q1 was a full-fledged disaster.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

most games are on pc with free multiplayer, so they have that choice (on Nintendo you won't have those games) so they have a choice, and funny thing, they choosen PS4 or X1.

Do you buy any Nintendo product? Because their profit margin is quite high so that would be a company being profitable at your expense, look at how much a MS or Sony game cost to produce and how many they sell compared to Nintendo and see which company is getting your money and which is giving you back. On PS3 have you felt bad that Sony was taking a loss so you could have a cheaper vg and so sent them a check of 200,00 usd for that loss when you bought your console?

On the PS3, I purchase the system because it had the games I wanted.  I care not if Sony took a loss on the system or made a profit.  If the price was outside of my range or I felt it was overprice I would not purchase the system.  Just like any consumer I evaluate my purchase based on preceived value.  If I do not see the value I do not make the purchase.  The same thing for PS+.  Online Peer to Peer MP does not need a service.  If there is a service there needs to be value added features.  If Sony only reason to add MP to PS+ is for Profit then they need to do better.  Just accepting what a company does and not push them to do more will always lead the company to complacentcy. 

Way to move the goalpost right?

But ok since we won't have anything fruitfull of this conversation I'll just say 21M users saw the value, you don't, ok.

Mummelmann said:
Barkley said:

It says in the image in the OP the 40 million figure is as of may 22nd. As it's a rounded figure the overtracking could be anywhere from 0 to 1 million. We'll just have to wait for Sony to give their next definitive figure.

We've been terrible at tracking the PS4 this year, Q1 was a full-fledged disaster.

Still not at the level you said a post ago.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

On the PS3, I purchase the system because it had the games I wanted.  I care not if Sony took a loss on the system or made a profit.  If the price was outside of my range or I felt it was overprice I would not purchase the system.  Just like any consumer I evaluate my purchase based on preceived value.  If I do not see the value I do not make the purchase.  The same thing for PS+.  Online Peer to Peer MP does not need a service.  If there is a service there needs to be value added features.  If Sony only reason to add MP to PS+ is for Profit then they need to do better.  Just accepting what a company does and not push them to do more will always lead the company to complacentcy. 

Way to move the goalpost right?

But ok since we won't have anything fruitfull of this conversation I'll just say 21M users saw the value, you don't, ok.

Let me ask you this question.  Out of those 21M users, if asked if they see the value in adding MP to PS+ or do they feel they were forced to accept it since they bought a PS4.  I am not sure we are talking about the same thing.  If the PS3 was evident how people viewed PS+ when MP was free, I would say that people did not see the value of PS+ until Sony forced MP into the plan and thus games HAD to purchase it in order to play online.  If anything you prove my point that Online play had to be added to PS+ in order for Sony to sell the service.  Are you sure you are thinking your argument through.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

Way to move the goalpost right?

But ok since we won't have anything fruitfull of this conversation I'll just say 21M users saw the value, you don't, ok.

Let me ask you this question.  Out of those 21M users, if asked if they see the value in adding MP to PS+ or do they feel they were forced to accept it since they bought a PS4.  I am not sure we are talking about the same thing.  If the PS3 was evident how people viewed PS+ when MP was free, I would say that people did not see the value of PS+ until Sony forced MP into the plan and thus games HAD to purchase it in order to play online.  If anything you prove my point that Online play had to be added to PS+ in order for Sony to sell the service.  Are you sure you are thinking your argument through.

If customer doesn't see value in the service they won't buy. You may say Sony sequestrated their right, but if they really though the service or the console hadn't value it wouldn't break all records as the fatest selling Playstation console. It really is as simple as that.

People see little value on WiiU, restricted value on X1 (need a lower price and still sell lot less) and a lot of value. If they think the MP is worth the 50 they pay for it, if not they would see alternatives... you just want me to answer a dumb question if I would preffer something for free or to pay. And the thing is, the answer doesn't need to be dumb, the answer will depend of the context. I preffer to pay a health insurance than to use the "free" service the government provides (altough I already pay for it through taxes) and IF I liked MP online and the choice would be free and bad versus cheap and good I would choose the second one.

And considering a lot of complaints were made about the quality of the free PSN but a lot less is made about the price of PSN+ I would say people have made their choice very clear. And if you want to deny that please show some evidence instead of saying that because you don't see value in it then there is no value.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Just to end this useless debate about "I want something better so I want it for free"

There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.
John Ruskin.
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnruskin395451.html



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Machiavellian said:
JustcallmeRiff said:

Because all the great multiplayer games are on Nintendo like CoD , Destiny , The Division , Doom and every third party game.

So what happens if the next Nintendo system can play all those games.  In other words, Peer to Peer with nothing to offer really does not need a paid service.  Just because Sony and MS decided this is the easies route to making money isn't any reason a consumer should be happy or just accept it.

Oh , we're playing the IF game. So what happens if the next Nintendo system can play all those games. They have to get serious about online and offer a pay service.



JustcallmeRiff said:
Machiavellian said:

So what happens if the next Nintendo system can play all those games.  In other words, Peer to Peer with nothing to offer really does not need a paid service.  Just because Sony and MS decided this is the easies route to making money isn't any reason a consumer should be happy or just accept it.

Oh , we're playing the IF game. So what happens if the next Nintendo system can play all those games. They have to get serious about online and offer a pay service.

If the games only use Peer to Peer then Nintendo will have to do nothing.  Nintendo already have MP games and since they are Peer to Peer, they do not have to worry about charging for MP play since they do not need any servers to provide MP just like the PC.  Did people just wake up today and totally forgot that the majority of online games are peer to peer.  Even then only match making is done server side and this is already done by the game studio or publisher.  The only Console maker talking about dedicated servers for MP play is MS and so only MS service really gives you value for MP play as part of their service.



DonFerrari said:

If customer doesn't see value in the service they won't buy. You may say Sony sequestrated their right, but if they really though the service or the console hadn't value it wouldn't break all records as the fatest selling Playstation console. It really is as simple as that.

People see little value on WiiU, restricted value on X1 (need a lower price and still sell lot less) and a lot of value. If they think the MP is worth the 50 they pay for it, if not they would see alternatives... you just want me to answer a dumb question if I would preffer something for free or to pay. And the thing is, the answer doesn't need to be dumb, the answer will depend of the context. I preffer to pay a health insurance than to use the "free" service the government provides (altough I already pay for it through taxes) and IF I liked MP online and the choice would be free and bad versus cheap and good I would choose the second one.

And considering a lot of complaints were made about the quality of the free PSN but a lot less is made about the price of PSN+ I would say people have made their choice very clear. And if you want to deny that please show some evidence instead of saying that because you don't see value in it then there is no value.

Seeing value and having no other avenue is something totally different.  Can you tell me where is this alternative for Console gamers who own a PS4.

I see no value  in adding MP to PS+ because all the MP games are peer to peer.  Did you not read that part.  Peer to Peer does not need PSN and if PSN is down causes MP to not be available then that is a design problem with PSN not the protocols used for MP gaming.  Hell, even Sony does not provide dedicated servers for match making for only a few of their 1st party games.  During the PS3, days the service was bad not for MP within games but when you wanted to use PSN for anything else.  I believe you are getting confused about PSN and what it provides and what it does not.



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

If customer doesn't see value in the service they won't buy. You may say Sony sequestrated their right, but if they really though the service or the console hadn't value it wouldn't break all records as the fatest selling Playstation console. It really is as simple as that.

People see little value on WiiU, restricted value on X1 (need a lower price and still sell lot less) and a lot of value. If they think the MP is worth the 50 they pay for it, if not they would see alternatives... you just want me to answer a dumb question if I would preffer something for free or to pay. And the thing is, the answer doesn't need to be dumb, the answer will depend of the context. I preffer to pay a health insurance than to use the "free" service the government provides (altough I already pay for it through taxes) and IF I liked MP online and the choice would be free and bad versus cheap and good I would choose the second one.

And considering a lot of complaints were made about the quality of the free PSN but a lot less is made about the price of PSN+ I would say people have made their choice very clear. And if you want to deny that please show some evidence instead of saying that because you don't see value in it then there is no value.

Seeing value and having no other avenue is something totally different.  Can you tell me where is this alternative for Console gamers who own a PS4.

I see no value  in adding MP to PS+ because all the MP games are peer to peer.  Did you not read that part.  Peer to Peer does not need PSN and if PSN is down causes MP to not be available then that is a design problem with PSN not the protocols used for MP gaming.  Hell, even Sony does not provide dedicated servers for match making for only a few of their 1st party games.  During the PS3, days the service was bad not for MP within games but when you wanted to use PSN for anything else.  I believe you are getting confused about PSN and what it provides and what it does not.

Since they have 99% of the games available on PS4 also available cheaper on PC, I'm more inclined to say they see the value in the proposition. Since the beggining of PS4 MP is a paid thing, so it isn't a sequestration of something they had so you can ask "what is the alternative to who own a PS4", they had the alternative to not buying PS4 in the first place. Last gen they had a alternative to buy X360 with paid online or PS3 with free online and in the market with most online players they choose the paid one.

You see no value, no problem, others do, and it seems to piss you off that they do. For me online MP at all have no value. And you seem to be so knowledgeable of PSN and Live to be certain that it should work even with Sony servers down. Do you have a source for it and why P2P games would have support cut?

If you don't believe in free lunch then you know that everything have a cost, even free online. So you may disagree with the cost of the service and wanting it free because it was free before and other service is free in a different place it doesn't mean that it have zero cost. And if customer didn't really liked it they wouldn't buy. But you keep wanting to use yourself as a rule.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."