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Forums - Gaming - Square Enix: PS4 version of Rise of the Tombraider is not canceled

Mr Puggsly on 04 July 2016
Kerotan said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Right, if its not permanent damage than I feel the IP is fine.

As long as fans get RotTR eventually then its all the same. Whether it be for physical sales, digital sales, GwG, PS+, a heavy price cut. All these things bring the fanbase back to where it was or even bigger.

Hence, I don't believe there was any damage primarily because its a great game I think people will get eventually.

As far as financial impact of the exclusivity, we can only assume MS gave them a lot of money and made the exclusivity financially worthwhile.

Again you are listing things they have to do (not guaranteed)  to repair the damage.  My point is there is currently damage.  That's what I've been saying all along.  Never said it couldn't be fixed if they play their cards right (not guaranteed).  

 

You can try and deflect from my argument all you want but it's been very simple and without all possible future variables you bring up.  

 

The ip is currently damaged. 

The future for the IP is fine because it was a quality game millions more are going to play down the road. Hence, no damage in my opinion.

Wanna keep going in circles?

You just get the last word in, and remember there will be more TR. The IP is fine and SE will naturally want to get this game to many people for the next game.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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d21lewis on 04 July 2016
SWORDF1SH said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think exclusive deals are bad for both IPs. But RotTR is in better position because PS4 fans will have it. Meanwhile millions of X1 fans will never play SFV.

Frankly, I don't care if you disagree as you can see my opinions aren't gonna change.

I can see your point puggers even if you exaggerate with the "millions of X1 fans" part. In fact it's now hard to tell which franchise is damaged more but my feeling is that the Tomb Raider franchise will be damaged more from being exclusive. The SF franchise also took a big hit but the main reason was the botched launch. Of course being exclusive will hurt SF but to what extent is unknown and we will probably never know. All in all, both franchises were  damaged to some degree but we can all speculate and give our opinions. It's good to get decent opinions from both sides.

When TR launches this holiday we will have a better idea how much TR was damaged by being timed. If nobody forks out from a promotional campaign I can see this doing worse than the XB1 version.

Only a pugg can call another pugg "puggers".



Kerotan on 04 July 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Kerotan said:

Again you are listing things they have to do (not guaranteed)  to repair the damage.  My point is there is currently damage.  That's what I've been saying all along.  Never said it couldn't be fixed if they play their cards right (not guaranteed).  

 

You can try and deflect from my argument all you want but it's been very simple and without all possible future variables you bring up.  

 

The ip is currently damaged. 

The future for the IP is fine because it was a quality game millions more are going to play down the road. Hence, no damage in my opinion.

Wanna keep going in circles?

You just get the last word in, and remember there will be more TR. The IP is fine and SE will naturally want to get this game to many people for the next game.

Again I never said the future of the ip isn't fine.  You keep making things up to create an argument because you know what I'm saying can't be disagreed with (because you've already agreed).  

 

So once more,  the IP is fine but they damaged it.  And it's currently damaged.  

 

Where will the goalposts be shifted to now just so you can continue this? 



Aura7541 on 04 July 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Kerotan said:

Again you are listing things they have to do (not guaranteed)  to repair the damage.  My point is there is currently damage.  That's what I've been saying all along.  Never said it couldn't be fixed if they play their cards right (not guaranteed).  

You can try and deflect from my argument all you want but it's been very simple and without all possible future variables you bring up.  

The ip is currently damaged. 

The future for the IP is fine because it was a quality game millions more are going to play down the road. Hence, no damage in my opinion.

Wanna keep going in circles?

You just get the last word in, and remember there will be more TR. The IP is fine and SE will naturally want to get this game to many people for the next game.

However, you proposed a variety of ways the TR fanbase can be maintained in your previous comment. If you have to do that rather than just let the merits of ROTR doing the work, then how can you say that there is no damage to the IP? There are historical precedents where sales are dramatically lower on the platform that receive a game later than other platforms (unless that game is GTAV). Losing out on potential sales counts as damage because you end up with a significantly smaller fanbase which will in turn, lead to smaller word of mouth. In addition, Square Enix has other games releasing from September through December, so I assume the company will rather put more focus on games that are new and fresh. This isn't to say the IP is permanently damaged, but it is damaged nonetheless. Damage comes on a spectrum.

Considering that PS4 ROTR cannot be released until November at the earliest, releasing the game in November will be a terrible idea. December is the better month, but KH2.8 is also releasing. I bet that SE wants to hype up KHIII as much as it can, so I won't be surprised if the company puts more focus on KH2.8 than ROTR. Furthermore, other games may come out in December, too. Pricing is another issue. I highly doubt ROTR will sell well if it's just the standard game at $60. SE will have to put in a bunch of extra content to incentivize consumers, but that is if the company is willing to do that.

So to say that the IP will be fine is rather hasty because that requires myriad of conditions to be met. Will SE put that much focus on PS4 ROTR? Or will the company just do the bare minimum while putting much of its focus on FFXV, DQ Builders, World of FF, and KH2.8? When will PS4 ROTR come out? How much will it cost? Will SE be willing to provide incentives? If you have definitive answers to these questions, I'm curious to know how you come to those conclusions and I hope the reasoning is not Proof by Assertion.



Kerotan on 04 July 2016
Aura7541 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The future for the IP is fine because it was a quality game millions more are going to play down the road. Hence, no damage in my opinion.

Wanna keep going in circles?

You just get the last word in, and remember there will be more TR. The IP is fine and SE will naturally want to get this game to many people for the next game.

However, you proposed a variety of ways the TR fanbase can be maintained in your previous comment. If you have to do that rather than just let the merits of ROTR doing the work, then how can you say that there is no damage to the IP? There are historical precedents where sales are dramatically lower on the platform that receive a game later than other platforms (unless that game is GTAV). Losing out on potential sales counts as damage because you end up with a significantly smaller fanbase which will in turn, lead to smaller word of mouth. In addition, Square Enix has other games releasing from September through December, so I assume the company will rather put more focus on games that are new and fresh. This isn't to say the IP is permanently damaged, but it is damaged nonetheless. Damage comes on a spectrum.

Considering that PS4 ROTR cannot be released until November at the earliest, releasing the game in November will be a terrible idea. December is the better month, but KH2.8 is also releasing. I bet that SE wants to hype up KHIII as much as it can, so I won't be surprised if the company puts more focus on KH2.8 than ROTR. Furthermore, other games may come out in December, too. Pricing is another issue. I highly doubt ROTR will sell well if it's just the standard game at $60. SE will have to put in a bunch of extra content to incentivize consumers, but that is if the company is willing to do that.

So to say that the IP will be fine is rather hasty because that requires myriad of conditions to be met. Will SE put that much focus on PS4 ROTR? Or will the company just do the bare minimum while putting much of its focus on FFXV, DQ Builders, World of FF, and KH2.8? When will PS4 ROTR come out? How much will it cost? Will SE be willing to provide incentives? If you have definitive answers to these questions, I'm curious to know how you come to those conclusions and I hope the reasoning is not Proof by Assertion.

It's probably best not writing such a long well thought out reply.  

 

Puggsly is aware of all this,  he already admitted exclusivity did damage but he's just trying to argue for arguments sake at this stage. 



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Mr Puggsly on 04 July 2016
Aura7541 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

The future for the IP is fine because it was a quality game millions more are going to play down the road. Hence, no damage in my opinion.

Wanna keep going in circles?

You just get the last word in, and remember there will be more TR. The IP is fine and SE will naturally want to get this game to many people for the next game.

However, you proposed a variety of ways the TR fanbase can be maintained in your previous comment. If you have to do that rather than just let the merits of ROTR doing the work, then how can you say that there is no damage to the IP? 

Excellent question!

Those are all things many IPs do to hype future releases. They virtually give away the previous games to increase the fanbase.

We certainly wouldnt consider every GwG and PS+ title a damaged IP.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Kerotan on 04 July 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Aura7541 said:

However, you proposed a variety of ways the TR fanbase can be maintained in your previous comment. If you have to do that rather than just let the merits of ROTR doing the work, then how can you say that there is no damage to the IP? 

Excellent question!

Those are all things many IPs do to hype future releases. They virtually give away the previous games to increase the fanbase.

We certainly wouldnt consider every GwG and PS+ title a damaged IP.

No and they are not the reasons an ip is damaged. They are things they can do to help a damaged ip but as you said,  it can help undamaged titles too.  

 

ROTTR is damaged though. So they'll need all the help they can give it if they want it reaching its potential. 



Mr Puggsly on 04 July 2016
Kerotan said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Excellent question!

Those are all things many IPs do to hype future releases. They virtually give away the previous games to increase the fanbase.

We certainly wouldnt consider every GwG and PS+ title a damaged IP.

ROTTR is damaged though. So they'll need all the help they can give it if they want it reaching its potential. 

I don't think giving it away raises its potential... more like raises the potential of people wanting the next game.

Hey, is RotTR damaged by the way? Do you keep typing that or just paste?



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Kerotan on 04 July 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Kerotan said:

ROTTR is damaged though. So they'll need all the help they can give it if they want it reaching its potential. 

I don't think giving it away raises its potential... more like raises the potential of people wanting the next game.

Hey, is RotTR damaged by the way? Do you keep typing that or just paste?

My argument on here is the ip is currently damaged.  The sooner you can admit that instead of trying to change the argument to something else the sooner we can move on.  



Aura7541 on 04 July 2016
Mr Puggsly said:
Aura7541 said:

However, you proposed a variety of ways the TR fanbase can be maintained in your previous comment. If you have to do that rather than just let the merits of ROTR doing the work, then how can you say that there is no damage to the IP? 

Excellent question!

Those are all things many IPs do to hype future releases. They virtually give away the previous games to increase the fanbase.

We certainly wouldnt consider every GwG and PS+ title a damaged IP.

I was hoping you would provide ample examples because I see a lot of telling, but not a lot of showing.

The thing with GwG and PS+ is more nuanced than you're making it out to be. Take Rocket League as an example. It was offered for free on PS+ and the number of players grew a lot. However, how does this move pay off on the long run? Well, the game is relatively inexpensive so the initial hit won't be as big as, let's say, a kind of hit a AAA game will receive. In addition, it is a multiplayer game which provides it a lot of replayability and also has a bunch of DLC. Because of the former, it increases the likelihood of players purchasing DLC which in turn, leads to greater revenue. ROTR, on the other hand, is a costlier single player game that doesn't have as much replayability as Rocket League.

TL;DR - It largely depends on what type of game you're talking about.