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Forums - Politics Discussion - Clinton has clinched nomination-Also, Clinton or Trump?

fatslob-:O said:
SuaveSocialist said:

1.  The Clinton issue in the end is better than a Trump issue in the end.
2&3.  It's not subjective.  Trump has no idea what he's doing. With his constant flip-flops (often mid-speech), he either has no ideas or has no clue what his ideas would actually do.
4.  He doesn't have a policy.  He has a few random, contradictory soundbites.  "The wages are too high"  *one week later* "Wages are too low."  If you're going to claim Trump's policies are better, you're going to have to prove it.  But Trump hasn't made it clear what his policies even are.
5.  Trump claims it's a much higher figure than 2 million, and his tax plan is tailored to benefit himself and his friends the most.  However thin you think the membrane is that separates corporate interests from Hillary's own policies, that barrier doesn't even exist with Trump.
6.  The Bernie supporters are indeed critical of Hillary; that's why they are Bernie supporters--most of them were Hillary supporters at one point.  Trump is just objectively worse.
7.  So you agree with me then.  

Integrity is the strength of one's convictions, not an indicator of what those convictions are.  An action that makes it easier for Trump to become President is arguably a violation of one's integrity if their convictions aligned with Bernie's---even Bernie himself has said that Clinton aligns much, much closer to himself than Trump and that a Trump presidency should be refused.  

If you think it's a question of integrity: you have it or you don't, Bernie supporters would easily demonstrate their integrity by choosing Clinton over Gary now that Trump's the Republican nominee.

I won't think less of you if you disagree, but I will lose faith in you if you still cannot comprehend.

1. Better is arguable ... 

2 & 3. That's his appeal, him having no idea what to do means he's incorruptible no matter what happens and if he's a flip flopper then so is Clinton with her voting record ... 

4. He's not clear on everything but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a stance from which he can create policies from ... 

5. According to authoritative sources such as OpenSecrets.org and FollowtheMoney.org, Trump has spent less than 2 million in total and that's a modest amount no matter what you think or what he says. Your totally wrong about his tax plans too since he's in FAVOUR of HIGHER taxes for the RICH to pay off the national debt to which not even Clinton cares enough to pay the bills. Trump serves his OWN corporate interests, not to others and that is far better than been at the mercy of others ... 

6. I wonder if Sanders supporters are critical about Sanders himself ... 

7. In no way did I agree with you ... 

You don't refuse presidency to maintain integrity, you maintain integrity by standing in your own beliefs. There is only cowardice in following a crowd you don't believe in, no integrity at all to be had in doing that so Sanders supporters backing Clinton means that their convictions are weak and fickle since they didn't have the strength to stand on their own ideals ... 

Integrity isn't about winning or losing, Sanders supporters have no principles or ethics to stand on if they cannot show their own humility. Instead of voting for Gary Johnson or Hillary Clinton they should be WRITING IN Bernie Sanders. If they can't do that then they don't deserve the honor of being a Sanders supporters and instead should redirect themselves as the rest of the insignificant #NeverTrump clones out there ... 

1.  You are free to argue against it, but you'd be wrong.

2&3.  So you've gone from "subjective" to admitting it is "objective".  Very good.  Trump is aimless and clueless.

4.  Thanks for the list of vague, often contradictory statements.  Here's another one: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-contradictions-213869  Trump has no stance, no convictions and no integrity.

5. No, the rich are the ones who benefit most from his tax "plan". http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan  Who knows, though?  He's flip-flopped so many times there's no telling what his tax "plan" would look like if he ever actually settles on one.  The Joker is more consistent.

6.  They have voiced numerous criticisms throughout his campaign.  

7.  you said "People care about america in their own ways", so by your very words you agree that there are people who will vouch for Clinton against Trump for that very reason.  Because they care about America.  This is where you quietly concede that you've lost. :)

 

If your convictions see Trump as diamtrically opposed to them, it would not violate one's integrity to cast a ballot with the intent to keep him out of office.  It's too bad you couldn't comprehend that, I had such faith in you.



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I will not be voting for either.

It is not enough to vote for one to keep the other out of office. It is that kind of short-sighted, backwards political thinking that has, in great part, gotten us in the pile of shit our country is now in.

If the US ever wants to evolve, we need to leave the DEM and GOP parties behind.



SuaveSocialist said:

1.  You are free to argue against it, but you'd be wrong.

2&3.  So you've gone from "subjective" to admitting it is "objective".  Very good.  Trump is aimless and clueless.

4.  Thanks for the list of vague, often contradictory statements.  Here's another one: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-contradictions-213869  Trump has no stance, no convictions and no integrity.

5. No, the rich are the ones who benefit most from his tax "plan". http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan  Who knows, though?  He's flip-flopped so many times there's no telling what his tax "plan" would look like if he ever actually settles on one.  The Joker is more consistent.

6.  They have voiced numerous criticisms throughout his campaign.  

7.  you said "People care about america in their own ways", so by your very words you agree that there are people who will vouch for Clinton against Trump for that very reason.  Because they care about America.  This is where you quietly concede that you've lost. :)

 

If your convictions see Trump as diamtrically opposed to them, it would not violate one's integrity to cast a ballot with the intent to keep him out of office.  It's too bad you couldn't comprehend that, I had such faith in you.

Why so condescending ? 

1. It's not so uncommon that people can't see the other side afterall ... 

2 & 3. There you go again getting yourself into the pissing match ... 

4. Just admit that you were patently wrong about him having no stance, passing a lie doesn't help your case ... 

5. Analysis =/= Evidence, Statement = Claim so I'll take words of a nonpolitician over some paper ... 

6. Then why isn't #NeverSanders trending higher despite getting less votes than either Clinton or Trump in the primaries ? 

7. It also means to be not so arrogant and highly parroting against the opposing side but it's no wonder that the #NeverTrump camp couldn't see that and get so extremely self-absorbed in their own superiority complex ... (No wonder I find Trump supporters to be 100x more humble than Clinton supporters and 10x more humble than Sanders supporters.) As for quietly conceding, I mean that after election results. Win or lose, one side is going to have shut it no matter how loud they get ...  

Cowardice =/= Integrity ... 

I wonder if Sanders supporters are are willing to opt in for Ted Cruz as the democratic nominee if it weren't Clinton just to spite Trump or will their hatred keep clouding their judgement ? *rolls eyes*



Scisca said:
Zappykins said:

Well, there is something with which we can both agree. 

In the words of Thomas Jefferson, US President and author of the Declaration of Independence:

 

"No Freedom Without Education"

I've read over half of it and haven't found anything that changes my opinion that he's the best candidate - to the contrary, he only gained extra points in my eyes. He was born in Canada? Oh please. At least this time it's on your continent. He's religious? Good. He's bad for women? No, he's bad for feminists - and that's yet another point for Mr. Cruz. There aren't many things I enjoy more than watching Milo Yiannopoulos destroy and humiliate them Climate change? We know it's bullshit. It's nice to care about the climate and USA could start to control itself a bit more, but going overboard (like we're doing it in Europe) is even more stupid.

So yeah, can't see anything that puts me off.

But the bottom line is, he's the only guy who puts it straight, that Putin is a threat to Europe and that USA can't leave Europe alone, cause the German-Russia duo are starting to stir shit up over here again. And unfortunately, that is the bloody truth. When I hear Clinton talking pro-Russian bullshit, saying they'll lift the sanctions, take troops from here or on other ocasions they are straight up attacking and insulting my country - the only country in whole Europe that actually wants to be your allies - all this makes me think that she has absolutely no idea about what's going on in Europe and should she win, it can get really ugly really fast.

@Military spendings - I know all that. But are you aware that you spend this money... In USA, right? So this money helps finance American companies, research, science, etc. How many people would lose jobs? Quite a lot I think. And your position in the world would start to deteriorate, which would hit your trade and economy as well. I mean, you've got China on the rise, challenging you everywhere, going back now is the stupidest thing you could do. Your fleet is the only thing that keeps you where you are.

Nice to see a milo fan 😃

 

Also, on climate change, I still think it wouldn't hurt for us to focus on a cleaner earth. Know what matters a lot right now though? Food management and water. 



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Scisca said:
Zappykins said:

Well, there is something with which we can both agree. 

In the words of Thomas Jefferson, US President and author of the Declaration of Independence:

 

"No Freedom Without Education"

I've read over half of it and haven't found anything that changes my opinion that he's the best candidate - to the contrary, he only gained extra points in my eyes. He was born in Canada? Oh please. At least this time it's on your continent. He's religious? Good. He's bad for women? No, he's bad for feminists - and that's yet another point for Mr. Cruz. There aren't many things I enjoy more than watching Milo Yiannopoulos destroy and humiliate them Climate change? We know it's bullshit. It's nice to care about the climate and USA could start to control itself a bit more, but going overboard (like we're doing it in Europe) is even more stupid.

So yeah, can't see anything that puts me off.

But the bottom line is, he's the only guy who puts it straight, that Putin is a threat to Europe and that USA can't leave Europe alone, cause the German-Russia duo are starting to stir shit up over here again. And unfortunately, that is the bloody truth. When I hear Clinton talking pro-Russian bullshit, saying they'll lift the sanctions, take troops from here or on other ocasions they are straight up attacking and insulting my country - the only country in whole Europe that actually wants to be your allies - all this makes me think that she has absolutely no idea about what's going on in Europe and should she win, it can get really ugly really fast.

@Military spendings - I know all that. But are you aware that you spend this money... In USA, right? So this money helps finance American companies, research, science, etc. How many people would lose jobs? Quite a lot I think. And your position in the world would start to deteriorate, which would hit your trade and economy as well. I mean, you've got China on the rise, challenging you everywhere, going back now is the stupidest thing you could do. Your fleet is the only thing that keeps you where you are.

Wow, you aren't doing anything to help the argument that Pollond is one of the more backwards thinking countries in Europe. 

Actually, religion has no place in the US Government, it's one of our founding principles (along with getting rid of Kings and Queen.)  Fundamentalist have snuck bits of it in there in the last 100 years, but it doesn't belong.  I think the way he puts his particular religion above government makes him unqualified.  (What’s to stop him for sending in ‘freedom’ to stop the unchristian Catholics in Poland – and yes most US Fundamentalist Baptist type Christians do not consider Catholics as the same religion.)

Don't like equal rights?  Wow, how does other people having equal rights hurt you in any way.

And yes, you have to be born in the USA to serve as president, unless you fall under some odd situation as McCain did.

But fortuantely, Cruz is out and hopefully soon he will be forgotten.

I get your point about Russia.  I think Clinton knows more about it than Trump in many, many ways. 

Do you realize how much waste is spend on the military?  There is so much waste.  They buy stuff just to let it rot so they will not lose the money next year.

http://www.onlinemilitaryeducation.org/secret-side/



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

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fatslob-:O said:
SuaveSocialist said:

1.  You are free to argue against it, but you'd be wrong.

2&3.  So you've gone from "subjective" to admitting it is "objective".  Very good.  Trump is aimless and clueless.

4.  Thanks for the list of vague, often contradictory statements.  Here's another one: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-contradictions-213869  Trump has no stance, no convictions and no integrity.

5. No, the rich are the ones who benefit most from his tax "plan". http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/analysis-donald-trumps-tax-plan  Who knows, though?  He's flip-flopped so many times there's no telling what his tax "plan" would look like if he ever actually settles on one.  The Joker is more consistent.

6.  They have voiced numerous criticisms throughout his campaign.  

7.  you said "People care about america in their own ways", so by your very words you agree that there are people who will vouch for Clinton against Trump for that very reason.  Because they care about America.  This is where you quietly concede that you've lost. :)

 

If your convictions see Trump as diamtrically opposed to them, it would not violate one's integrity to cast a ballot with the intent to keep him out of office.  It's too bad you couldn't comprehend that, I had such faith in you.

Why so condescending ? 

1. It's not so uncommon that people can't see the other side afterall ... 

2 & 3. There you go again getting yourself into the pissing match ... 

4. Just admit that you were patently wrong about him having no stance, passing a lie doesn't help your case ... 

5. Analysis =/= Evidence, Statement = Claim so I'll take words of a nonpolitician over some paper ... 

6. Then why isn't #NeverSanders trending higher despite getting less votes than either Clinton or Trump in the primaries ? 

7. It also means to be not so arrogant and highly parroting against the opposing side but it's no wonder that the #NeverTrump camp couldn't see that and get so extremely self-absorbed in their own superiority complex ... (No wonder I find Trump supporters to be 100x more humble than Clinton supporters and 10x more humble than Sanders supporters.) As for quietly conceding, I mean that after election results. Win or lose, one side is going to have shut it no matter how loud they get ...  

Cowardice =/= Integrity ... 

I wonder if Sanders supporters are are willing to opt in for Ted Cruz as the democratic nominee if it weren't Clinton just to spite Trump or will their hatred keep clouding their judgement ? *rolls eyes*

To me, Sanders is best, Trump a close second and Hillary the worst. What can you conclude from this? 



AsGryffynn said:

To me, Sanders is best, Trump a close second and Hillary the worst. What can you conclude from this? 

That would depend if your anti-establishment or you could be in the #NeverHillary camp ... 

I can see some common appeal between Trump and sanders but they are very different beasts ... 

Sanders is full on socialist whereas Trump is a regular moderate conservative ... 

If it were between Sanders and Clinton I would pick the former just on the basis that he goes against the government ... 

Both Trump and Sanders are the governments worst enemy whereas Clinton is their best friend ... 



AsGryffynn said:

To me, Sanders is best, Trump a close second and Hillary the worst. What can you conclude from this? 

I would tentatively infer that you are very strongly against the establishment politicians, but recognize the fact that Trump is a lunatic of a candidate (thus preferring Sanders), yet hate the establishment even more (thus Trump over Clinton by a long way).  You figure that whatever Trump breaks, he's at least going to get things done and shake up Washington.  Am I close? 



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fatslob-:O said:
AsGryffynn said:

To me, Sanders is best, Trump a close second and Hillary the worst. What can you conclude from this? 

That would depend if your anti-establishment or you could be in the #NeverHillary camp ... 

I can see some common appeal between Trump and sanders but they are very different beasts ... 

Sanders is full on socialist whereas Trump is a regular moderate conservative ... 

If it were between Sanders and Clinton I would pick the former just on the basis that he goes against the government ... 

Both Trump and Sanders are the governments worst enemy whereas Clinton is their best friend ... 

 

Final-Fan said:
AsGryffynn said:

To me, Sanders is best, Trump a close second and Hillary the worst. What can you conclude from this? 

I would tentatively infer that you are very strongly against the establishment politicians, but recognize the fact that Trump is a lunatic of a candidate (thus preferring Sanders), yet hate the establishment even more (thus Trump over Clinton by a long way).  You figure that whatever Trump breaks, he's at least going to get things done and shake up Washington.  Am I close? 

Bullseye. Over here, the amount of government politicians holding power is overwhelming to the point it's dizzying! If I were an American, I sure as hell would vote for anyone who can scrap what's in now and flip the white house upside down. I can't do that here sadly, at least not until Brexit makes Europe too fragile and unstable (without the UK, only France and Germany are left, and France is only on this because the UK is on it and they are too close not to try and benefit from their gains and losses). Then I might be able to go back to Catalonia and vote out. 

Don't take your chances guys. The "government" has become it's own side, so anti establishment, whether left or right, is better than what is in charge right now... 



Donald Trump is the legendary American success story. Trump started from a humble beginning and he has worked hard to achieve great success in his life. America was built on the foundation of hard work. Trump will work hard as President to strengthen American economy. Trump is a proven stong business leader and he is the best candidate to lead America as President.