By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - When is murder justified by self-defense?

archer9234 said:
Teeqoz said:

If your intention is to do what it takes to defend yourself, but you accidentally kill them, then that is not what this thread is adressing (at least not from what I can tell). Killing someone by accident in self-defense is completely different from killing someone purposely.

That's what I saw from this thread. Who here said they're killing the person on purpose? No one. They're defending the family as they see fit. Unless the person was using the burglars head as a basketball. The burglar gave up, and they still killed the burglar. Or this was a setup. It should automatically be self defense. And these people should be banned from suing the family they burglared. That's a crook of shit.

If it's anaccident, it's an accident. You weren't trying to kill him, so it doesn't matter. People here are talking about using lethal force in self-defense, which is not the same as punching someone and hitting loose a blood-clot leading to the perp getting an aneurysm.

A user in this very thread has said he would kill someone to the best of his ability as long as they're in his house. He did not say he would do what it would take to protect himself and his family from harm, and if he had to kill him/her to achieve that, so be it. No, he actually said that he would kill them to the best of his ability (presumably no questions asked either) as long as they're in his house. People thinking that human life is so easily expendable scares me.



Around the Network

I see a few people who keep saying things like "the burglars have human rights".

No, they don't. They're worthless husks of trash that need to be treated as such and taken out.

Growing up, there was an older couple that lived down the street that thought like that. Bleeding Hearts, real noble people. All that went to shit when some illegals broke into their house because they have a nice car and old people are easy targets. Their unwillingness to properly defend their home cost the husband his life and in an act of disgusting monstrous behavior, the wife's dignity.

They were apprehended and sent to jail where they awaited deportation. (Pseudo-happy ending, they weren't deported, they are killed in jail by biker gang members).

How could this story have changed? The husband could have treated them as what they are; animals that needed to be put down. He could have grabbed his gun when the security went off and, at the very least, killed one. The gunfire would have alerted neighbors and authorities alike. The damage caused could have been mostly avoided.

Caring about other humans, as I said, is noble. But there's nothing human about breaking and entering. It's an act of selfish greed, and I will feel no remorse of I ever have to perform an emergency full frontal lobotomy on an intruder in my home. My only worry is cleaning up the blood.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Teeqoz said:

vivster said:

We already have laws in place to decide what is extreme and what not. It's called "life long" sentence. I see no reason to keep those people alive when they're proven to be extremely harmful to other people.

 

I realize that my "extreme" opinion requires a flawless judicial system as to not kill off innocent bystanders. Well, no system that depends on human decisions is perfect.

You've went from "If a person wants to willingly physically harm another person it always deserves death." to "We already have laws in place to decide what is extreme and what not. It's called "life long" sentence. I see no reason to keep those people alive when they're proven to be extremely harmful to other people."

First one = extreme

Second one =/= extreme

So which is it?

I'm only talking about violent crimes. Every violent crime that deserves a life long imprisonment, deserves death. Of course there are more crimes that deserve death but they are harder to quantify. Would need new laws.

In a perfect world all people that willingly and seriously harm their fellow humans should be greated by instant death. They have nothing to give society and only take away from it.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

I think the problem with this question is that if you are ever faced with a situation like this you will almost certainly have no information about the other person or very little. They could be one of the most dangerous people in the world or a petty criminal. Because of this you would have a very hard time determining the real threat to you or your family. Given that situation I think it would be best to assume the worst or something close to it and defend yourself and family as much as possible.



"They think I'm crazy, but I know better. It is not I who am crazy, it is I who am MAD!"

 

 

"Bolshe, luchshe, I kruche"

vivster said:
Teeqoz said:

You've went from "If a person wants to willingly physically harm another person it always deserves death." to "We already have laws in place to decide what is extreme and what not. It's called "life long" sentence. I see no reason to keep those people alive when they're proven to be extremely harmful to other people."

First one = extreme

Second one =/= extreme

So which is it?

I'm only talking about violent crimes. Every violent crime that deserves a life long imprisonment, deserves death. Of course there are more crimes that deserve death but they are harder to quantify. Would need new laws.

In a perfect world all people that willingly and seriously harm their fellow humans should be greated by instant death. They have nothing to give society and only take away from it.

It's clear that Teeqoz doesn't want to discuss just the violent crimes where guilt is proven without a shadow of doubt. He wants to generalize all crime together to discredit you by claiming you want death penalties for misdemeanors, and then to question the vague line between normal and ultrviolent crime.

 

And Teeqoz, please stop doing that. There are laws and regulations that determines how violent a crime is, but I'm sure Viv isn't a lawyer and therefore likely incapable of giving you the lawyer answer you seem to be craving. It's clear you have more faith in people, and that Vivster does not. 



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Around the Network

That could be seen as radical, but if my life or the lives of my family/friends are in danger, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to prevent that. I don't give a shit about the criminal, but I surely give one hundred shits about my friends. I'm not willing to take the risk. In that situation I'm sure I wouldn't be so cold-hearted to make an analysis about if my life is in danger or not. I'll react irrationaly.



vivster said:
Teeqoz said:

You've went from "If a person wants to willingly physically harm another person it always deserves death." to "We already have laws in place to decide what is extreme and what not. It's called "life long" sentence. I see no reason to keep those people alive when they're proven to be extremely harmful to other people."

First one = extreme

Second one =/= extreme

So which is it?

I'm only talking about violent crimes. Every violent crime that deserves a life long imprisonment, deserves death. Of course there are more crimes that deserve death but they are harder to quantify. Would need new laws.

In a perfect world all people that willingly and seriously harm their fellow humans should be greated by instant death. They have nothing to give society and only take away from it.

So just let me get this clear, once and for all, your original statement didn't in fact relate to all violent crimes, but only serious violent crimes that deserves life long imprisonment? Because your wording at first literally said "If a person wants to willingly physically harm another person it always deserves death." But from what you have further replied in this discussion, it seems that your opinion isn't that extreme, and seems a lot more reasonable to me, regardless of how much or little I disagree (and for the record, I still disagree).

Azuren said:
vivster said:

I'm only talking about violent crimes. Every violent crime that deserves a life long imprisonment, deserves death. Of course there are more crimes that deserve death but they are harder to quantify. Would need new laws.

In a perfect world all people that willingly and seriously harm their fellow humans should be greated by instant death. They have nothing to give society and only take away from it.

It's clear that Teeqoz doesn't want to discuss just the violent crimes where guilt is proven without a shadow of doubt. He wants to generalize all crime together to discredit you by claiming you want death penalties for misdemeanors, and then to question the vague line between normal and ultrviolent crime.

 

And Teeqoz, please stop doing that. There are laws and regulations that determines how violent a crime is, but I'm sure Viv isn't a lawyer and therefore likely incapable of giving you the lawyer answer you seem to be craving. It's clear you have more faith in people, and that Vivster does not. 

And Azuren, please stop assuming shit about what I want and don't want to discuss and how I want to discuss it, as you clearly don't know what I'm thinking (surprise surprise).



Teeqoz said:
vivster said:

I'm only talking about violent crimes. Every violent crime that deserves a life long imprisonment, deserves death. Of course there are more crimes that deserve death but they are harder to quantify. Would need new laws.

In a perfect world all people that willingly and seriously harm their fellow humans should be greated by instant death. They have nothing to give society and only take away from it.

So just let me get this clear, once and for all, your original statement didn't in fact relate to all violent crimes, but only serious violent crimes that deserves life long imprisonment? Because your wording at first literally said "If a person wants to willingly physically harm another person it always deserves death." But from what you have further replied in this discussion, it seems that your opinion isn't that extreme, and seems a lot more reasonable to me, regardless of how much or little I disagree (and for the record, I still disagree).

Azuren said:

It's clear that Teeqoz doesn't want to discuss just the violent crimes where guilt is proven without a shadow of doubt. He wants to generalize all crime together to discredit you by claiming you want death penalties for misdemeanors, and then to question the vague line between normal and ultrviolent crime.

 

And Teeqoz, please stop doing that. There are laws and regulations that determines how violent a crime is, but I'm sure Viv isn't a lawyer and therefore likely incapable of giving you the lawyer answer you seem to be craving. It's clear you have more faith in people, and that Vivster does not. 

And Azuren, please stop assuming shit about what I want and don't want to discuss and how I want to discuss it, as you clearly don't know what I'm thinking (surprise surprise).

I don't need to assume, because it's all you've been doing in this thread. 



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Azuren said:
Teeqoz said:

So just let me get this clear, once and for all, your original statement didn't in fact relate to all violent crimes, but only serious violent crimes that deserves life long imprisonment? Because your wording at first literally said "If a person wants to willingly physically harm another person it always deserves death." But from what you have further replied in this discussion, it seems that your opinion isn't that extreme, and seems a lot more reasonable to me, regardless of how much or little I disagree (and for the record, I still disagree).

And Azuren, please stop assuming shit about what I want and don't want to discuss and how I want to discuss it, as you clearly don't know what I'm thinking (surprise surprise).

I don't need to assume, because it's all you've been doing in this thread. 

Nothing I can do about it if you think so, but eh, you are allowed to continue thinking what you want, regardless of how wrong you are. I'm rather curious as to when you invented your mind-reading machine though. Please give examples proving you right about what you think I am/was trying to do as well, it'd be much appreciated to see which of my statements weren't worded clearly enough, allowing such an egregious misinterpretation as yours is.



Teeqoz said:
Azuren said:

I don't need to assume, because it's all you've been doing in this thread. 

Nothing I can do about it if you think so, but eh, you are allowed to continue thinking what you want, regardless of how wrong you are. I'm rather curious as to when you invented your mind-reading machine though. Please give examples proving you right about what you think I am/was trying to do as well, it'd be much appreciated to see which of my statements weren't worded clearly enough, allowing such an egregious misinterpretation as yours is.

Why bother? I'm sure you'll just try to find a way to say it's not what was intended, or I misunderstood, so on and so forth. Even now, you're likely reading this with a relieved-but-smug look on your face, when the fact of the matter is you don't matter enough to warrant me running around this thread to copy paste the several instances where you treat misdemeanors in the same light Vivster was saying he would like to see ultrviolent crimes punished. 

 

tl;dr, You're not worth it, I was lending some advice for you to stop before you escalate things to a ban.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames