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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn discussion thread: stats, characters etc.

ZenfoldorVGI said:

Also, who hates the Begnion nobles? I so owned them in chapter 3 when I was supposed to spare their lives.


I also killed them anyway.  Much like I do to everything on all the other maps.  Though I did make sure to rob them first.  ^_^



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Words Of Wisdom said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

Also, who hates the Begnion nobles? I so owned them in chapter 3 when I was supposed to spare their lives.


I also killed them anyway.  Much like I do to everything on all the other maps.  Though I did make sure to rob them first.  ^_^


I let them live, just like I managed to keep a lot of Crimean soldiers alive in the Felirae map. Which is of course completely stupid, since I haven't spend even 1 BEXP on Ike's team yet.



BengaBenga said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

Also, who hates the Begnion nobles? I so owned them in chapter 3 when I was supposed to spare their lives.


I also killed them anyway. Much like I do to everything on all the other maps. Though I did make sure to rob them first. ^_^


I let them live, just like I managed to keep a lot of Crimean soldiers alive in the Felirae map. Which is of course completely stupid, since I haven't spend even 1 BEXP on Ike's team yet.


I didn't bother with spending BEXP until the Part 4 - Final.  Consequently, I had enough to get Meg and Fiona from whatever level they start at to 20/20/20 (and see what their final stats looked like); of course I reset right after that but I left a save there so I can go back and BEXP anyone I like and take them into the Finals.



ZenfoldorVGI said:

That means, with the random crits, quick death, and RNG stats, you're playing an old school game with a new school feel. Not old school, N64, old school Famicom, difficult and unfair.


That's a great line, Zenfoldor, and I think it captures the spirit of Fire Emblem really well. Do not play this game if you are looking for the typical modern-day "let's make the game pathetically easy so that everyone can follow the story" experience. Fire Emblem is, frankly, cheap and unfair much of the time. It definitely reminds me of the old NES RPGs filled with one-hit kill monsters and other cheese situations.

With that said, this game frankly turns way, WAY too much on luck factors, much more so than it needs to. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm just tossing dice and hoping that I won't get snake eyes, rather than playing a strategy game. Here are some of the worst culprits that I really, really would like to see improved upon in future titles.

  • Random stat level ups. I know many people love this, but it's really one of the worst parts of the series. There needs to be more consistency. It's enormously NOT fun to have units that you're pouring time and energy into getting sucky levelups and failing to improve. Furthermore, the system practically invites abuse (especially with Battle Saving). Bad level up? Hit reset, refight the battle, get a better result. This can and should be better.
  • Battle Saves. This should not be in the game! Suspend Mode, absolutely, Battle Saves no. It essentially lets you cheat your way through the game and eliminate mistakes. Call me old school, but I detest this feature.
  • Biorhythms. Umm, who decided it was cool to have your to-hit chance fluctuating up and down constantly throughout the game? If you're at low biorhythm (-20%) and the enemy is at high biorhythm (+20%), you're really leaving things up to dice rolls in terms of getting a hit. Early on with Micaiah's team, I've had situations where every unit was at low biorhythm, and no one could get better than 50-60% to hit. That really turns the game into crossing your fingers and hoping to get lucky. It would be one thing if there were items that upped biorhythm, but there's NOTHING you can do to fix the situation (until you get high-level herons late in the game). The one solution? Battle save and cheat your way out of it. Wonderful.
  • Enemy reinforcements. Another needless frustration factor. You get no warning, enemy units just appear on the map out of nowhere between turns. Oftentimes this can ruin a hour's worth of playtime, as you're flanked through no fault of your own. The only way to combat the reinforcements is to play the levels over and over again, until you've memorized their appearances (or cheat and use a guide that tells you ahead of time). That's not strategy, folks. If only the game would have one of the characters say "Hey, looks like there are reinforcements coming from the north!" and give you even ONE turn of warning, it would be fine. Instead, the game gives you the finger and says "Suprise! Deal with THAT!" Argh.
  • Critical hits. I'm not going to lie: I don't like the critical hit factor in these games. Critical hits deal triple damage, so any unit that takes one usually dies. Now it's one thing when you've got an enemy with a Killer Edge running around; you can see that unit, and gameplan around it. My problem is with the random enemy that has a 1% or 2% chance of doing a critical hit. You usually have to fight a dozen such battles on each map, and if you get unlucky... well, you're screwed. And then you have to play the whole map again. Anyone who has played any Fire Emblem game has run into this many, many times. I don't mind replaying maps when my strategy is bad. I DO mind when a ridiculous dice roll at less than 5% kills a unit through NO fault of my own. Blah.
  • Night maps. You can't see the enemies, but they sure can see you! These maps usually break down into replaying them over and over again until you memorize where the enemy locations are out in the darkness. Again, that's not "strategy", it's rote memorization. This was garbage back in Advance Wars, and it's still garbage now.

Now I love Fire Emblem, it's one of my favorite current series. It's just that these frustration factors do NOT have to be there! Some simple design tweaks could vastly improve the gameplay, while keeping the level of challenge that the series is known for. I absolutely understand why a non-fan of the series could give Radiant Dawn a low score (it's extremely daunting for newcomers, and those not used to strategy RPGs). Personally, I also am not a fan of this game's multiple party system (give me ONE group of characters to control!), but your milage may vary. I know a lot of you really seemed to enjoy that.



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Sullla said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

That means, with the random crits, quick death, and RNG stats, you're playing an old school game with a new school feel. Not old school, N64, old school Famicom, difficult and unfair.


That's a great line, Zenfoldor, and I think it captures the spirit of Fire Emblem really well. Do not play this game if you are looking for the typical modern-day "let's make the game pathetically easy so that everyone can follow the story" experience. Fire Emblem is, frankly, cheap and unfair much of the time. It definitely reminds me of the old NES RPGs filled with one-hit kill monsters and other cheese situations.

With that said, this game frankly turns way, WAY too much on luck factors, much more so than it needs to. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm just tossing dice and hoping that I won't get snake eyes, rather than playing a strategy game. Here are some of the worst culprits that I really, really would like to see improved upon in future titles.

  • Random stat level ups. I know many people love this, but it's really one of the worst parts of the series. There needs to be more consistency. It's enormously NOT fun to have units that you're pouring time and energy into getting sucky levelups and failing to improve. Furthermore, the system practically invites abuse (especially with Battle Saving). Bad level up? Hit reset, refight the battle, get a better result. This can and should be better. I like it because it makes every character worthwhile and weak at the same time. Even characters who would be otherwise bad can turn out wonderfully given the blessing of RNG.
  • Battle Saves. This should not be in the game! Suspend Mode, absolutely, Battle Saves no. It essentially lets you cheat your way through the game and eliminate mistakes. Call me old school, but I detest this feature. I think it's a good feature for Normal mode but I was glad it wasn't in Hard mode. I like the idea of options. If there are people who want a challenge, they'll be playing the mode without it. Everyone else, can enjoy the benefits of having battle saves... or just choose not to use it. No one is forcing you to after all.
  • Biorhythms. Umm, who decided it was cool to have your to-hit chance fluctuating up and down constantly throughout the game? If you're at low biorhythm (-20%) and the enemy is at high biorhythm (+20%), you're really leaving things up to dice rolls in terms of getting a hit. Early on with Micaiah's team, I've had situations where every unit was at low biorhythm, and no one could get better than 50-60% to hit. That really turns the game into crossing your fingers and hoping to get lucky. It would be one thing if there were items that upped biorhythm, but there's NOTHING you can do to fix the situation (until you get high-level herons late in the game). The one solution? Battle save and cheat your way out of it. Wonderful. I liked the Biorhythms to a point. Some characters had really steady rhythm and others had rhythm that really fluctuated. Kind of neat. Not an amazing addition to the game but neat none-the-less.
  • Enemy reinforcements. Another needless frustration factor. You get no warning, enemy units just appear on the map out of nowhere between turns. Oftentimes this can ruin a hour's worth of playtime, as you're flanked through no fault of your own. The only way to combat the reinforcements is to play the levels over and over again, until you've memorized their appearances (or cheat and use a guide that tells you ahead of time). That's not strategy, folks. If only the game would have one of the characters say "Hey, looks like there are reinforcements coming from the north!" and give you even ONE turn of warning, it would be fine. Instead, the game gives you the finger and says "Suprise! Deal with THAT!" Argh. Yeah, sometimes it was annoying to see enemies suddenly appearing with no warning, but you have to think on your feet at times. Not every battle should be completely predictable and reinforcements could make battles a lot more challenging.
  • Critical hits. I'm not going to lie: I don't like the critical hit factor in these games. Critical hits deal triple damage, so any unit that takes one usually dies. Now it's one thing when you've got an enemy with a Killer Edge running around; you can see that unit, and gameplan around it. My problem is with the random enemy that has a 1% or 2% chance of doing a critical hit. You usually have to fight a dozen such battles on each map, and if you get unlucky... well, you're screwed. And then you have to play the whole map again. Anyone who has played any Fire Emblem game has run into this many, many times. I don't mind replaying maps when my strategy is bad. I DO mind when a ridiculous dice roll at less than 5% kills a unit through NO fault of my own. Blah.
  • Night maps. You can't see the enemies, but they sure can see you! These maps usually break down into replaying them over and over again until you memorize where the enemy locations are out in the darkness. Again, that's not "strategy", it's rote memorization. This was garbage back in Advance Wars, and it's still garbage now. Or you could use Thieves/torches. Those work very well.

Now I love Fire Emblem, it's one of my favorite current series. It's just that these frustration factors do NOT have to be there! Some simple design tweaks could vastly improve the gameplay, while keeping the level of challenge that the series is known for. I absolutely understand why a non-fan of the series could give Radiant Dawn a low score (it's extremely daunting for newcomers, and those not used to strategy RPGs). Personally, I also am not a fan of this game's multiple party system (give me ONE group of characters to control!), but your milage may vary. I know a lot of you really seemed to enjoy that.


 



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@Sulla:

I agree on the Critical Hits part. That's really frustrating.

Random Level up usually gets evened out along the course of the game.

Night maps and Reinforcements are great, because they force you to move your weaker units along, instead of keeping them back. Usually these reinforcements or "hidden" enemies cannot kill someone right away, unless you place them right at the edge of the fog.

I never spend one second thinking about Biorythm. I always check the stats before the attack and if Hit is too low, I will attack with someone else.

Battle Saves: Well don't save if you feel it's like cheating. For less experienced players it's probably a good thing. I didn't make much use of it, because I want to finish it the "old" way, but if you don't care for that saving is a nice option.

EDIT: WoW do you have a link on the RNG? 

 



BengaBenga said:

EDIT: WoW do you have a link on the RNG?


True Hit



Sullla said:

With that said, this game frankly turns way, WAY too much on luck factors, much more so than it needs to. Sometimes I almost feel like I'm just tossing dice and hoping that I won't get snake eyes, rather than playing a strategy game.

I disagree. Seems like a classic lack of strategy and tactic on your part. 

 

  • Random stat level ups. I know many people love this, but it's really one of the worst parts of the series. There needs to be more consistency. It's enormously NOT fun to have units that you're pouring time and energy into getting sucky levelups and failing to improve. Furthermore, the system practically invites abuse (especially with Battle Saving). Bad level up? Hit reset, refight the battle, get a better result. This can and should be better.

I agree that they shouldn't have removed the static growth that was in PoR, but on the other hand, this was way more time consuming (I've still have not finished my über playthrough made to transfer to RD, given all the data to watch for). But I think it's a good thing, and you're not required to reset, that's your call actually.

  • Battle Saves. This should not be in the game! Suspend Mode, absolutely, Battle Saves no. It essentially lets you cheat your way through the game and eliminate mistakes. Call me old school, but I detest this feature.

On the contrary, this is a good thing. Seems like people think it's too easy with a save, but I don't think so. If you don't use them with a good tactic, it can ruin your entire mission if you didn't save at the right time. This is no cheating, as it requires tactic to even use the save correctly. Also, it compensate for the random growth you're talking about, in exchange for more time, strategy and tactic. So to me, it's all good. Plus, you don't have to use it. I hope you're not elitist enough to say not everyone should be able to play this game.

  • Biorhythms. Umm, who decided it was cool to have your to-hit chance fluctuating up and down constantly throughout the game? If you're at low biorhythm (-20%) and the enemy is at high biorhythm (+20%), you're really leaving things up to dice rolls in terms of getting a hit. Early on with Micaiah's team, I've had situations where every unit was at low biorhythm, and no one could get better than 50-60% to hit. That really turns the game into crossing your fingers and hoping to get lucky. It would be one thing if there were items that upped biorhythm, but there's NOTHING you can do to fix the situation (until you get high-level herons late in the game). The one solution? Battle save and cheat your way out of it. Wonderful.
Biorhytms are part of the strategy. You can choose which formation to use based on it. It's as useful or useless as the zodiac alignment in FFT. I don't mind it at all actually, it adds strategy and tactics elements to the game, which is a plus to me.
  • Enemy reinforcements. Another needless frustration factor. You get no warning, enemy units just appear on the map out of nowhere between turns. Oftentimes this can ruin a hour's worth of playtime, as you're flanked through no fault of your own. The only way to combat the reinforcements is to play the levels over and over again, until you've memorized their appearances (or cheat and use a guide that tells you ahead of time). That's not strategy, folks. If only the game would have one of the characters say "Hey, looks like there are reinforcements coming from the north!" and give you even ONE turn of warning, it would be fine. Instead, the game gives you the finger and says "Suprise! Deal with THAT!" Argh.
This is part of the tactic of the game. Actually, this is just a part of your tactic sucking there. The only thing that annoyed me with reinforcement in PoR, is that they were never close enough for me to kill them in my last playthrough. In the first one, it was just a matter of changing my tactics a little. Never had a problem with this, and it's welcome actually, adding a bit of challenge, allowing to see if your strategy is good enough to accomodate unforeseen situations. It's a good thing.
  • Critical hits. I'm not going to lie: I don't like the critical hit factor in these games. Critical hits deal triple damage, so any unit that takes one usually dies. Now it's one thing when you've got an enemy with a Killer Edge running around; you can see that unit, and gameplan around it. My problem is with the random enemy that has a 1% or 2% chance of doing a critical hit. You usually have to fight a dozen such battles on each map, and if you get unlucky... well, you're screwed. And then you have to play the whole map again. Anyone who has played any Fire Emblem game has run into this many, many times. I don't mind replaying maps when my strategy is bad. I DO mind when a ridiculous dice roll at less than 5% kills a unit through NO fault of my own. Blah.
Your tactic should take this into account. Again, this is a case of your tactics sucking really. This shouldn't be removed, it's a good thing. Luck can make you OHKOed, I don't see what's wrong with that. I actually adjust my formations for that, and never got a problem with that. Perhaps playing more of RD will change my mind, but I doubt it.
  • Night maps. You can't see the enemies, but they sure can see you! These maps usually break down into replaying them over and over again until you memorize where the enemy locations are out in the darkness. Again, that's not "strategy", it's rote memorization. This was garbage back in Advance Wars, and it's still garbage now.
This is again a case of your tactics sucking. There are ways to prevent that, and you should know them (thieves, torches). Strategy and tactic should be adapted to that situation, and it's the purpose of these stages. The different types of goals also change your tactics. That's the core of the game and is a good thing.

Now I love Fire Emblem, it's one of my favorite current series. It's just that these frustration factors do NOT have to be there! Some simple design tweaks could vastly improve the gameplay, while keeping the level of challenge that the series is known for. I absolutely understand why a non-fan of the series could give Radiant Dawn a low score (it's extremely daunting for newcomers, and those not used to strategy RPGs). Personally, I also am not a fan of this game's multiple party system (give me ONE group of characters to control!), but your milage may vary. I know a lot of you really seemed to enjoy that.

 

You're contradicting yourself. You can't say it's too challenging to beginners, and that the save should be removed.

Also, beginners don't have to keep all their characters alive (well, except in the first chapters), and the easy mode is very forgiving. I've seen playthroughs of the first chapters on YouTube, and they're obvioulsy played on easy, as the first tries I made with RD in normal mode, the players on YouTube would have got their ass wiped. 


 



ookaze said:
Sullla said:

  • Critical hits. I'm not going to lie: I don't like the critical hit factor in these games. Critical hits deal triple damage, so any unit that takes one usually dies. Now it's one thing when you've got an enemy with a Killer Edge running around; you can see that unit, and gameplan around it. My problem is with the random enemy that has a 1% or 2% chance of doing a critical hit. You usually have to fight a dozen such battles on each map, and if you get unlucky... well, you're screwed. And then you have to play the whole map again. Anyone who has played any Fire Emblem game has run into this many, many times. I don't mind replaying maps when my strategy is bad. I DO mind when a ridiculous dice roll at less than 5% kills a unit through NO fault of my own. Blah.
Your tactic should take this into account. Again, this is a case of your tactics sucking really. This shouldn't be removed, it's a good thing. Luck can make you OHKOed, I don't see what's wrong with that. I actually adjust my formations for that, and never got a problem with that. Perhaps playing more of RD will change my mind, but I doubt it.

 


The problem with critical hits is actually simple.  If you get a critical hit on an enemy and kill it, the game moves on.  If the enemy gets a critical hit on you, you most likely just lost a character, and need to reset (or load a battle save).  In Hard mode where you can't really afford to lose characters, the prospect of having to replay the entire battle because a single enemy got lucky with a critical hit is frustrating.

You say that proper tactics will remedy this and I completely agree. In Hard mode, it's very easy to get OHKO'ed without criticals so I personally don't like to whine about criticals in easier modes.  ^_^



Words Of Wisdom said:

The problem with critical hits is actually simple. If you get a critical hit on an enemy and kill it, the game moves on. If the enemy gets a critical hit on you, you most likely just lost a character, and need to reset (or load a battle save). In Hard mode where you can't really afford to lose characters, the prospect of having to replay the entire battle because a single enemy got lucky with a critical hit is frustrating.


 Actually, I said that because in PoR, I adjusted my formation and tactics so that when there's any chance that my characters get "criticalled", they can stand it. And I never lost a character for getting a critical hit on a character.

Well, except once recently because I forgot about a ballista (they're so long range).

I don't think it will be any different in RD. I've yet to earnestly play it though, as I still didn't finish my über PoR save so that I have very good transfers.