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Forums - Movies & TV - So, Civil War is a beautiful mess (spoilers)

Lawlight on 21 May 2016
Runa216 said:
Lawlight said:

BvS. Both have much of the same problem but BvS, I felt, had better action and the action sequences were filmed better. I also enjoyed it more because it was "different" compared to CW which was more of the same. And time flew by for BvS compared to CW.

I think both had too many characters and some pointless scenes.

My wife asked me, when we left the theatre "Did you check the reviews prior to us seeing this movie?" and I said "yes, everyone loves it" because she felt it was even worse than I think it (she fell asleep so that says a lot).

What action scene in Batman v Superman came anywhere close to the Airport scene in Civil War?  I mean, I can only think of a few action scenes in that entire slog of a movie and most of them were pretty dumb.  The final fight scene with the trinity vs Doomsday had some cool images but was interspersed with stupid military stuff and stupid characters.  The early stuff was kind of cool with the memories of the Man of Steel fights.  The only fight or action scene I thought was well handled was Batman's siege on Martha Kent's captors.  That scene was visceral and powerful and effective.  

But even the best action scene in that film didn't come close to the fourth or fifth best action sequence in Civil War.  

1 - The Airport scene, Hero vs Hero
2 - The african Chase, pursuing the Winter Soldier
3 - The emotional final fight, 2 on 1
4 - The Brainwashed escape
5 - The opening siege on Crossbones

All of these scenes were better, had more emotion, and more thrills than the final fight or the batman siege on the captors.  Did I miss an entire movie's worth of action sequences?  because I was bored to tears throughout Batman  v Superman, especially after the superpowered ballet that was the climax to Man of Steel (which, all plot points aside, I actually quite liked).  

I thought the airport scene was nothing special. It really had no weight and tension. As I said, they were going for killing blows without wanting to kill. Like when Rhodes is injured and Falcon immediately stopped fighting and apologised. What did you think was going to happen? Of course, the quips didn't help.

The emotional fight scene? Lol. Again another clumsy fight. Why didn't Iron Man just crush Bucky if he really wanted to kill him (and he seemed like he did).

Here's when I know an action sequence is good - it's when I want to see it again. Like The Raid or some of Ip Man's fights or Nightcrawler in X2 - just some examples). None of the action sequences here, I think, are worth going back to. They were very derivative and run-of-the-mill.

The Batman fight in the warehouse is easily better than any action sequence in CW. No shaky cam as well.



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Lawlight on 21 May 2016
DakonBlackblade said:

-Strong, he has been way stronger than his comic book counterpart from the begining,  his strength here is consistent with the universe. Spidy never had a chance tough, its a 15 years Spidy with no experience x a real veteran whos a master of pretty much every martial art, Spidy couldve out manouvered him and outsmarted him if he was more experience, but 1v1 Cap would always have the uperhand. And on a hand to hand fight Cap could take IM anyday.

Non, it's not consistent. They made him a physical match for Iron Man and Spidey in this movie. Next you'll say 1v1 Cap can beat Superman because of his experience. Spidey is about 10 times stronger than Cap. And much faster too. 1 punch from either Spider-Man or Iron Man would have broken him in half. When Spider-Man was pulling Cap with his webs, Cap proved to be stronger and pulled him back.

That fight scene, I wish they took it more seriously and made it more original.



DonFerrari on 21 May 2016
Runa216 said:
Lawlight said:

BvS was a breeze to follow compared to this. But the difference in this is that a lot of scenes being jumped to don't matter since there is no context to them. Like of Zemo's planning and doing stuff. But even besides that, holy cow was there a lot of jumping around. Cap was in the US in the Avenger's complex, gets a text message, next he's in London, sees some TV footage, next he's in Vienna and then jumps to Bucharest where he somehow finds Bucky. All the while, Zemo is out and about - Cleveland, Vienna, who knows where else. Tony Stark does some jumping around as well - Massachussets to have a lame excuse of a guilt trip, Vienna, Queens.

How did Zemo convince everyone that it was Winter Soldier who bombed the UN?

You've got some real problems or terrible bias if you think that the pacing and editing of Civil War was bad but Batman v Superman was easy to follow.  As a student of film and television, I can assure you that Civil War was leagues above, ahead, and beyond the terrible editing and pacing of Batman v Superman. In fact, one of the biggest gripes about Batman v Superman was its terrible pacing, editing, and lack of establishing shots, whereas one of the better elements of Civil War was its editing. 

Seriously, this is just more proof that your opinion in this matter is worthless as little more than flame bait or biased nonsense.  At this point it's clear you're just trolling or have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Either way, your words are useless to all except to those who already agree with you and are just desperate to have someone on their side. 

I see... so you as a student knows a lot better than the renowed director, ok.



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Runa216 on 22 May 2016
DonFerrari said:
Runa216 said:

You've got some real problems or terrible bias if you think that the pacing and editing of Civil War was bad but Batman v Superman was easy to follow.  As a student of film and television, I can assure you that Civil War was leagues above, ahead, and beyond the terrible editing and pacing of Batman v Superman. In fact, one of the biggest gripes about Batman v Superman was its terrible pacing, editing, and lack of establishing shots, whereas one of the better elements of Civil War was its editing. 

Seriously, this is just more proof that your opinion in this matter is worthless as little more than flame bait or biased nonsense.  At this point it's clear you're just trolling or have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Either way, your words are useless to all except to those who already agree with you and are just desperate to have someone on their side. 

I see... so you as a student knows a lot better than the renowed director, ok.

You don't need to be a michelin star chef to know when you've got a pile of shit on your plate. 



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DakonBlackblade on 22 May 2016
Lawlight said:
DakonBlackblade said:

-Strong, he has been way stronger than his comic book counterpart from the begining,  his strength here is consistent with the universe. Spidy never had a chance tough, its a 15 years Spidy with no experience x a real veteran whos a master of pretty much every martial art, Spidy couldve out manouvered him and outsmarted him if he was more experience, but 1v1 Cap would always have the uperhand. And on a hand to hand fight Cap could take IM anyday.

Non, it's not consistent. They made him a physical match for Iron Man and Spidey in this movie. Next you'll say 1v1 Cap can beat Superman because of his experience. Spidey is about 10 times stronger than Cap. And much faster too. 1 punch from either Spider-Man or Iron Man would have broken him in half. When Spider-Man was pulling Cap with his webs, Cap proved to be stronger and pulled him back.

That fight scene, I wish they took it more seriously and made it more original.

He stoped Thors hammer on Avengers, he 1v1 Loki and hanged his own, on his first movie he is shown lifting a motrcycle with a bunch of women on top overhead like if it was made of paper. Also Cap didn't thug of war pulled Spidy, he spun and folded the web, that was a smat move that does not require brute strength at all. As I said his movie version is way stronger than his comic book version, its like his 5th apearence on the MCU and every time he appear someone says "how is cap this strong, he is not this strong in the comis", well yes thats it exactly his movie version is way stronger and it is consistent, he has always been this strong on every movie outing so far.



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DakonBlackblade on 22 May 2016
Angelus said:

 

DakonBlackblade said:

The movie has a much darker tone than any other Marvel movie, seriously where are all these jokes ppl talk about. Theres basicaly Spidy being Spidy, Ant-man being Ant-man and Falcon being Falcon,  the Volkswagen beetle scene and basicaly nothing else. Spidy was recruited because Stark needed someone he knew was powerfull enought to handle himself, would the movie work without him ? Ye sure it would. But why keep him out when they got the rights for the character back after all this time. Seing Cap almost killing Stark was so lighthearted, Rodey getting cripled was very light as well, or Wanda blowing 12 people to death due to lack of proper controll over her powers then blaming herself the entire movie while half the team and the ppl of the world all judged her also super light, and the lightest of all is having a villain who is grieving because his whole familly was murdered and so he spends quite a bit of time hearing a recorded voice message from his wife to him.

Non brainwashed version of Buky is way less powerfull than his brainwashed version, this is made very clear on the trilogy, in this movie is absurdly clear. When Zemo braiwashes Bucky he takes down everyone that tries getting in his way, when he is not brainwashed he pretty much looses every 1x1 he gets himself into.

Dude....everyone in the theatre was laughing like every 5 minutes. It was really annoying actually cus I often couldn't hear the next line of dialog. Don't tell me this wasn't a funny, lighthearted movie. Yes, there were moments of seriousness sprinkled in, but they're few and far between, and lost impact, because they try so hard to make you laugh the majority of the time, that any sense of trepidation goes out the window.

Wanda killed some people. You don't see it. Just an explosion on the side of a building. She gets over it after Hawkeye walks in and tells her to get off her ass (that's like literally almost all he said).

Rodey gets crippled.....because they just stare at him falling for 10 seconds.....and Tony forgets his suits can break the sound barrier (seriously did all his toys get worse after iron man 1?) Whatever it's cool, we're quickly told he's basically fine, and at the end we see Tony is gonna fix him up, which was predictable.

I'll give you the fight at the end, which was by far the best part of the movie. Sadly, the movie then closes with a wink to everyone hunting that Tony and Cap will be buddies again real soon, and they don't even have the guts to leave anyone in jail for a minute. So in conclusion, the movie is called Civil War.....and.....nobody dies, nobody ends the movie in captivity, nobodies life gets ruined, and everyone is likely to meet up for drinks soon to laugh about how silly this all was. Bygones and all.

 

It's a fun movie. It's also a terrible Civil War movie.

 

Edit: As for what you said about brainwashed Bucky being stronger, I don't know if that's supposed to be the case of not, but Black Panther basically schools him even without his suit, and everyone else he fights at that point wouldn't stand a chance against him brainwashed or not. Tony only had a glove, Black Widow isn't nearly strong enough to match him, and Cap isn't around until he catches the chopper. So I don't buy that brainwashing makes him stronger, more ruthless of course, but not stronger.

1 - ppl at your theater had a wierd sense of hummor, anyway some levity is good in every movie, otherwise you have the depressing mess that was BvS

2 - PG 13 and all, showing ppl blowing up insta makes movies mature. Wanda kinda gets over it, she never stops being afraid to sue her powers, thatll take Doctor Strange's teaching, you cna bet thatll happen in a near future.

3 - IM cannot go from 0 to breaking sound barrier in half a second, he was far and after 5 seconds of falling Rody would be falling fast as crap already, and we are not told he is fine, we are told he can't walk and can't even get up by himself when he falls. Most likely scenario Stark finds a way to make his legs work while in the War Machine suit but he wont be able to walk while out of it, wich will lead to some interesting character development regarding how this affects Rodey head

4 - Ppl don't need ot die for something to be serious. Half the Avengers team is wanted by authoritys, the other half has lost public trust, the acords are still in play and you can bet all your money Thanos is gona take advatage of this when he comes to Earth.



Angelus on 22 May 2016
DakonBlackblade said:
Angelus said:

 

Dude....everyone in the theatre was laughing like every 5 minutes. It was really annoying actually cus I often couldn't hear the next line of dialog. Don't tell me this wasn't a funny, lighthearted movie. Yes, there were moments of seriousness sprinkled in, but they're few and far between, and lost impact, because they try so hard to make you laugh the majority of the time, that any sense of trepidation goes out the window.

Wanda killed some people. You don't see it. Just an explosion on the side of a building. She gets over it after Hawkeye walks in and tells her to get off her ass (that's like literally almost all he said).

Rodey gets crippled.....because they just stare at him falling for 10 seconds.....and Tony forgets his suits can break the sound barrier (seriously did all his toys get worse after iron man 1?) Whatever it's cool, we're quickly told he's basically fine, and at the end we see Tony is gonna fix him up, which was predictable.

I'll give you the fight at the end, which was by far the best part of the movie. Sadly, the movie then closes with a wink to everyone hunting that Tony and Cap will be buddies again real soon, and they don't even have the guts to leave anyone in jail for a minute. So in conclusion, the movie is called Civil War.....and.....nobody dies, nobody ends the movie in captivity, nobodies life gets ruined, and everyone is likely to meet up for drinks soon to laugh about how silly this all was. Bygones and all.

 

It's a fun movie. It's also a terrible Civil War movie.

 

Edit: As for what you said about brainwashed Bucky being stronger, I don't know if that's supposed to be the case of not, but Black Panther basically schools him even without his suit, and everyone else he fights at that point wouldn't stand a chance against him brainwashed or not. Tony only had a glove, Black Widow isn't nearly strong enough to match him, and Cap isn't around until he catches the chopper. So I don't buy that brainwashing makes him stronger, more ruthless of course, but not stronger.

1 - ppl at your theater had a wierd sense of hummor, anyway some levity is good in every movie, otherwise you have the depressing mess that was BvS

2 - PG 13 and all, showing ppl blowing up insta makes movies mature. Wanda kinda gets over it, she never stops being afraid to sue her powers, thatll take Doctor Strange's teaching, you cna bet thatll happen in a near future.

3 - IM cannot go from 0 to breaking sound barrier in half a second, he was far and after 5 seconds of falling Rody would be falling fast as crap already, and we are not told he is fine, we are told he can't walk and can't even get up by himself when he falls. Most likely scenario Stark finds a way to make his legs work while in the War Machine suit but he wont be able to walk while out of it, wich will lead to some interesting character development regarding how this affects Rodey head

4 - Ppl don't need ot die for something to be serious. Half the Avengers team is wanted by authoritys, the other half has lost public trust, the acords are still in play and you can bet all your money Thanos is gona take advatage of this when he comes to Earth.

lol why do the people at my theatre have to be the ones with a weird sense of humor? I went on the first day they showed it here in my country, in one of our biggest cities, most of the audience were probably major Marvel fans. The movie is just a quipfest man, claiming it isn't is simply wrong. Not even saying that in and of itself is a bad thing. People laughed a lot, nobody can say they had a bad time leaving a movie when they were constantly laughing. It's just not what I want from a civil war story.

I understand why they didn't show Wanda actually blowing up those people, I'm just saying that it was one of many things that had the potential of leading the movie towards the right tone, but ultimately fails (at least for me), because I simply didn't believe it had any real effect on her. She's torn up about it for like 10 minutes, and then proceeds to psychic pile drive her friend that she was giving with just a second ago 100 yards into the ground because Hawkeye tells her to get over it. I mean come man....that's just not good, or believable character development. And don't even get me started on how she gets to just do whatever the fuck she wants in the airport fight without anyone so much as throwing her a dirty look, nevermind an attack.

I'm not saying Tony had to break the sound barrier right there, as if it would take that, my point was simply that his suit is fucking fast as hell. It's basically a jet. I don't know if you're aware of this but a jet is hell of a lot faster than a guy falling. He should have been EASILY able to catch him. And it's not like his suit had to go from 0-100, he was already chasing a jet, so he already has some speed going. All he had to do was hit the afterburners or whatever. Rodey's debilitation doesn't earn it's drama. It's not a believable scenario, and afterwards it's basically treated as such. It's given like 1 or 2 follow up lines and then next time we see him, Tony has him walking again. Big deal.

I'm sorry but I disagree. If you don't think anyone has to die or stay imprisoned or anything, cool, that's your right. Glad you loved the movie, and had no problems with it. Personally, if you're gonna do a civil war story, I'm sorry but I need to see some real fucking consequences. Them being outlaws means dick to me, because guess what, out of all the ones that are now wanted by the government, which ones are gonna have their own films before the next avengers? Idk if the next Ant Man comes out before Infinity War, but aside from that, none of those characters even have their own movies. So the next time we see all those "outlaws" will be when Thanos rolls around and it's not like the government is gonna be very pressed about catching and imprisoning them when a mad titan rolls around and is destroying the entire planet or whatnot. It's not like he'll stop by the UN first sand be like yo guys need me to assist bringing in those criminals? No. The movie could have had at least a much more interesting start if half the avengers were still in jail and bitter about what happened and the time they'd lost with their families etc, but nah....they just spent a night in lock up. It's all good. So they have to stay low key for a bit. Whatever. To me, that's all just wasted potential. And of course god forbid anybody dies. It's only been like 13 or so movies. Why should anyone consequential ever die? That would just be a drag. Especially in a civil war story. Wars never have casualties.

 

Like I said, I think it's a fun, entertaining movie. I know most people loved it, and that's fine. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's enjoyment. It's just not the movie that I personally wanted to see, and that was really frustrating for me. I'm just explaining why.



d21lewis on 22 May 2016

Up until the end, I was expecting Cap to die. Leaving his shield was pretty powerful, though. The message to Tony kind of killed that, though.

I like how, before the movie, I never felt Cap and Tony were friends. They had a pretty good conversation that sold their friendship to me, though. I guess, there was the movie I wanted, the movie I expected, and the movie we got. The movie we got was satisfying enough for my geek tastes.



DonFerrari on 22 May 2016
Runa216 said:
DonFerrari said:

I see... so you as a student knows a lot better than the renowed director, ok.

You don't need to be a michelin star chef to know when you've got a pile of shit on your plate. 

But if you are judging a michelin star chef and say his food is a pile of shit, you better show credentials, don't you think?

DakonBlackblade said:
Angelus said:

Dude....everyone in the theatre was laughing like every 5 minutes. It was really annoying actually cus I often couldn't hear the next line of dialog. Don't tell me this wasn't a funny, lighthearted movie. Yes, there were moments of seriousness sprinkled in, but they're few and far between, and lost impact, because they try so hard to make you laugh the majority of the time, that any sense of trepidation goes out the window.

Wanda killed some people. You don't see it. Just an explosion on the side of a building. She gets over it after Hawkeye walks in and tells her to get off her ass (that's like literally almost all he said).

Rodey gets crippled.....because they just stare at him falling for 10 seconds.....and Tony forgets his suits can break the sound barrier (seriously did all his toys get worse after iron man 1?) Whatever it's cool, we're quickly told he's basically fine, and at the end we see Tony is gonna fix him up, which was predictable.

I'll give you the fight at the end, which was by far the best part of the movie. Sadly, the movie then closes with a wink to everyone hunting that Tony and Cap will be buddies again real soon, and they don't even have the guts to leave anyone in jail for a minute. So in conclusion, the movie is called Civil War.....and.....nobody dies, nobody ends the movie in captivity, nobodies life gets ruined, and everyone is likely to meet up for drinks soon to laugh about how silly this all was. Bygones and all.

 

It's a fun movie. It's also a terrible Civil War movie.

 

Edit: As for what you said about brainwashed Bucky being stronger, I don't know if that's supposed to be the case of not, but Black Panther basically schools him even without his suit, and everyone else he fights at that point wouldn't stand a chance against him brainwashed or not. Tony only had a glove, Black Widow isn't nearly strong enough to match him, and Cap isn't around until he catches the chopper. So I don't buy that brainwashing makes him stronger, more ruthless of course, but not stronger.

1 - ppl at your theater had a wierd sense of hummor, anyway some levity is good in every movie, otherwise you have the depressing mess that was BvS

2 - PG 13 and all, showing ppl blowing up insta makes movies mature. Wanda kinda gets over it, she never stops being afraid to sue her powers, thatll take Doctor Strange's teaching, you cna bet thatll happen in a near future.

3 - IM cannot go from 0 to breaking sound barrier in half a second, he was far and after 5 seconds of falling Rody would be falling fast as crap already, and we are not told he is fine, we are told he can't walk and can't even get up by himself when he falls. Most likely scenario Stark finds a way to make his legs work while in the War Machine suit but he wont be able to walk while out of it, wich will lead to some interesting character development regarding how this affects Rodey head

4 - Ppl don't need ot die for something to be serious. Half the Avengers team is wanted by authoritys, the other half has lost public trust, the acords are still in play and you can bet all your money Thanos is gona take advatage of this when he comes to Earth.

Hate to say that to you, but on the theather I watched it was the same, laughs at every 5 min or so... I was loling the whole movie.



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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DakonBlackblade on 22 May 2016
DonFerrari said:

Hate to say that to you, but on the theather I watched it was the same, laughs at every 5 min or so... I was loling the whole movie.

Whats the right frequency of laughts a movie should have ? 1 every 10 minute would be OK ? Realy hard laughting every 15, a giggle every 30 ? The movie has levity no one is saying it doesn't, the overall tone of the movie is still dark and serious tough, its juts not depressing. I laughted like every 10 minutes on Inglorious Bastard, that movie is still dark as fck, heck the joker blowing up the hospital on Dark Knight is a comic scene, and he is blowing up a hospital wich is not something light at all.