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Forums - Nintendo - Emily Rogers: NX not gonna use X86 architecture, raw power close to XBO

Soundwave on 15 May 2016
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

I wouldn't say impossible but challenging for sure.

You would need at least 5 watts devoted to the chipset alone, and performance per watt would have to match what AMD is doing on Polaris 11 (50 GFLOPs/watt). If Nvidia can pull that off (or whoever), that brings you to 250 GFLOPS.

250 GFLOPS can be stretched pretty far if you running games at a low resolution ... 640x480 would be 1/6.75 the pixels of 1080p, 960x540 is 1/4. So that would be a fairly dramatic drop. You'd also have to cut effects down to medium or low settings (PC equivalent).

And your form factor would definitely not be a pocket handheld. 5 watts for the chip + 1-2 watts for the display/memory/modem/misc brings you up to about 7 watts, that would require a battery the size of an iPad (full-size) to get a tad over 3 1/2 hours of juice out of. Fortunately batteries aren't super expensive, unfortunately a battery like that would be huge.

It would have to be a tablet form factor and not one of those mini-tablets either. Something the size of a Wii U gamepad would probably be required. It would likely cost $250 at least, lets assume $40-$50 for a cheap 6-inch display + touch panel, $50 for the chipset, $50 for the memory, $10 for cheap FLASH, $20 for your battery, $60 misc electronics + plastic casing, $10 profit margin, $8 packaging/assembly. Probably would have to be sold for $269.99 or something.

Improbable to the point of being unrealistic an not worth discussing. There's not a chance in hell mobile components are matching the XBO in real time power by next year. Get real. What you are describing is not an XBO-level handheld. An XBO level handheld would be outputting graphics nearly identical to the XBO at nearly the same clip and at the exact same resolution. That's not happening next year.

Polaris 11 is not a mobile chip? :)

Nintendo wouldn't be able to do it because they don't use high end hardware anymore.

If Sony was still in the mobile picture ... that maybe would be a different story. They use the best hardware for the time usually.



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Frogger on 15 May 2016
Soundwave said:

Polaris 11 is not a mobile chip? :)

Is it running games in a mobile form factor at specs matching the XBO? Because if it isn't, it doesn't matter what kind of chip it is.



Soundwave on 15 May 2016
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

Polaris 11 is not a mobile chip? :)

Is it running games in a mobile form factor at specs matching the XBO? Because if it isn't, it doesn't matter what kind of chip it is.

It would have be a form factor closer to a mini-laptop, but it destroys an XBOne at full power (2.5 TFLOP vs. 1.2 TFLOP). 

You have to account for a difference in screen resolution too, rendering a game at 640x480 or 960x540 requires dramatically less processing power. You're reducing the pixels you need to render from 1080p or even 720p game down by 1/3 or 1/4.

Pointless to speculate too much probably because Nintendo wouldn't ever use tech that high end. A Vita successor in a tablet form factor could probably do it, sadly that'll probably never happen because the market has collapsed.



Frogger on 15 May 2016
Soundwave said:

It would have be a form factor closer to a mini-laptop, but it destroys an XBOne at full power (2.5 TFLOP vs. 1.2 TFLOP). 

You have to account for a difference in screen resolution too, rendering a game at 640x480 or 960x540 requires dramatically less processing power. You're reducing the pixels you need to render from 1080p or even 720p game down by 1/3 or 1/4.

That's not a handheld form factor. That's a mini-laptop form factor.

And no I don't. If it's running games at a lower resolution, it is not running games at XBO level. It doesn't matter what you're reducing. That's not "a handheld running XBO level graphics" which is what I was referring to. It's referring to this thread, which said that the NX has power close to the XBO. Great. That power is not happening on a handheld in 2017. That's like saying that Vita has power "close to PS3" because the games look so good. No, it doesn't.



Soundwave on 15 May 2016
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

It would have be a form factor closer to a mini-laptop, but it destroys an XBOne at full power (2.5 TFLOP vs. 1.2 TFLOP). 

You have to account for a difference in screen resolution too, rendering a game at 640x480 or 960x540 requires dramatically less processing power. You're reducing the pixels you need to render from 1080p or even 720p game down by 1/3 or 1/4.

That's not a handheld form factor. That's a mini-laptop form factor.

And no I don't. If it's running games at a lower resolution, it is not running games at XBO level. It doesn't matter what you're reducing. That's not "a handheld running XBO level graphics" which is what I was referring to. It's referring to this thread, which said that the NX has power close to the XBO. Great. That power is not happening on a handheld in 2017. That's like saying that Vita has power "close to PS3" because the games look so good. No, it doesn't.

It would have to be the form factor of say a Wii U tablet. Is that "hand held"?

Rendering at 720p or 1080p is pointless on a display that would be the size of 5-6 inches. On a 960x540 display, native Vita games look great, even streamed PS4 games look great, going for a higher resolution is just wasting horsepower.

The Vita can't run PS3 equivalent graphics at any resolution, something like a scaled down Polaris (at say 1/6th = 7 watts or so) would be able to actually run PC games like Far Cry 4 and Star Wars Battlefront straight up, it would just have to be at that reduced resolution and probably medium effects.



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Frogger on 15 May 2016
Soundwave said:

It would have to be the form factor of say a Wii U tablet. Is that "hand held"?

Rendering at 720p or 1080p is pointless on a display that would be the size of 5-6 inches. On a 960x540 display, native Vita games look great, even streamed PS4 games look great, going for a higher resolution is just wasting horsepower.

The Vita can't run PS3 equivalent graphics at any resolution, something like a scaled down Polaris (at say 1/6th = 7 watts or so) would be able to actually run PC games like Far Cry 4 and Star Wars Battlefront straight up, it would just have to be at that reduced resolution and probably medium effects.

The gamepad is not the form factor of a mini laptop, and calling that a handheld is an impressive leap in logic. It's way too big and bulky. That's like calling an Ipad a handheld.

It doesn't matter if it's pointless. It's what it has to achieve to be XBO level in power. That's what was said. XBO power level. No cheating. No short cuts. If it's not running games of the same complexity at the same specs, it's not the same power. That's fact. Nothing in a handheld formfactor is doing that in 2017.



Soundwave on 15 May 2016
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

It would have to be the form factor of say a Wii U tablet. Is that "hand held"?

Rendering at 720p or 1080p is pointless on a display that would be the size of 5-6 inches. On a 960x540 display, native Vita games look great, even streamed PS4 games look great, going for a higher resolution is just wasting horsepower.

The Vita can't run PS3 equivalent graphics at any resolution, something like a scaled down Polaris (at say 1/6th = 7 watts or so) would be able to actually run PC games like Far Cry 4 and Star Wars Battlefront straight up, it would just have to be at that reduced resolution and probably medium effects.

The gamepad is not the form factor of a mini laptop, and calling that a handheld is an impressive leap in logic. It's way too big and bulky. That's like calling an Ipad a handheld.

It doesn't matter if it's pointless. It's what it has to achieve to be XBO level in power. That's what was said. XBO power level. No cheating. No short cuts. If it's not running games of the same complexity at the same specs, it's not the same power. That's fact. Nothing in a handheld formfactor is doing that in 2017.

How is an iPad not a "handheld"? What do you hold it with?

More people carry a tablet around on a daily basis than a 3DS, so which form factor really is more relevant?



Frogger on 15 May 2016
Soundwave said:

How is an iPad not a "handheld"? What do you hold it with?

More people carry a tablet around on a daily basis than a 3DS, so which form factor really is more relevant?

Doesn't matter what's more relevant. The quoted was referring to a handheld, not a tablet. A handheld, an iPad/Gamepad does not make. XBO level handheld isn't happening by 2017.

And according to your spread, neither is an XBO level tablet.



S.T.A.G.E. on 15 May 2016
Slimebeast said:
Is Emily Rogers confirmed to really be a girl? I've never heard about a woman that is interested in computer hardware.

Good lord. Really, dude?



Soundwave on 15 May 2016
spemanig said:
Soundwave said:

How is an iPad not a "handheld"? What do you hold it with?

More people carry a tablet around on a daily basis than a 3DS, so which form factor really is more relevant?

Doesn't matter what's more relevant. The quoted was referring to a handheld, not a tablet. A handheld, an iPad/Gamepad does not make. XBO level handheld isn't happening by 2017.

And according to your spread, neither is an XBO level tablet.

OK Captain Semantics.

A portable device that you hold in your hands (as opposed to your genitals) that's the size of a Wii U game pad would be capable of running games XBox One games like Star Wars Battlefront, Call of Duty, FIFA, Far Cry 4, Assassin's Creed etc. on a 5-6 inch display where 720p or 1080p rendering would be overkill and as such 960x540 resolution or less would be acceptable.

That's possible. Unlikely for Nintendo since they don't care much for cutting edge technology. If Sony was making a tablet ... oh hell yeah. They'd totally go for it.