Indeed. Someone else.

Conjecture? Saying that a game with the largest ever PlayStation marketing campagin changes the context in which the game is a success is conjecture? Is it also conjecture when people said QB was a massive flop due to it being a prominent AAA exclusive with hours of FMV cutscenes? Do I need the budget down to the penny before we can say it was a flop? Do you not understand that context changes with the budget, marketing, and prominency of a game?

I can already name five better performing games this gen: GTAV, Battlefront, Watch_Dogs, Arkham Knight, FIFA, CoD AW, CoD BO3, Destiny, The Division, Fallout 4. And those are just PS4 sales.

And don't ask me, ask Sony why they haven't released any PR and why they overshipped to Amazon. I would say wait for US sales, but I know people say it's a success even if it just sells 1m.

Been a member for over two years. And moving  the baseless accusations from VGC alt to GAF alt. LOL

Your conclusions are conjecture. Yea, this is Sony's biggest marketing push. Everyone can acknowledge that as it's official information. But you aren't linking that with anything meaningful to form your conclusions.

With that, lets look at some of the numbers and what your argument amounts to.

UK First Week

Uncharted 4: 192k

You said Watch_Dogs had a higher debut. It did not. WD debuted to 388k. It did 190k on PS4, 105k on XB1 and the rest on PS3 and 360. Close numbers but no where near the numbers needed to make the UC4 debut look bad.

You said Arkham Knight had a higher debut. AK knight debuted to >220k sales with 67% on PS4. That's 147.4k for the PS4 version.  That's not really close to UC4 numbers.

You said Destiny had a higher debut. It also did not. Destiny sold 400k first week. Only 184k of those were the PS4 version.

You said Battlefront had a higher debut. It debuted to 325k sales. PS4 was 59%, so 191.75k. Pretty much tied with UC4 numbers.

You said Divison had a higher debut. It debuted to 277k. We do not have a ratio for the console split. It would have to be roughly 70% split in favor of the PS4 version to have a higher debut then UC4.

The other titles you listed had higher debut. Look at that list. GTA V, FIFA, CoD and F4. What you are failing to do is draw a logical conclusion between Sony's giant marketing for the title, there radio silence on sales and why that leads to the title having underperformed because it didn't outsell some of the biggest multiplatform IPs of all time. So, thanks for proving my point. UC4 has one of the highest debuts for the PS4 platform. And everything you've stated does its best to ignore the actual numbers in favor of your narrative.

That's why all your conclusions are conjecture. You haven't actually supported your argument at all. Just a bunch of gut feelings and what have you based on radio silence, which could be a result of a variety of things, not just the reasoning you infer from it.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. You largely agree that all the games mentioned either outsold, or were damn close (and would have outsold had they been exclusive to PS4) to Uncharted 4. You said Uncharted 4 was one of the top 5 debuts this gen, which was objectively wrong. And that's even comparing UC4 to only the PS4 version of multiplats, which already weighs the scale heavily in UC4's favor.

You then say to just ignore all the red flags regarding sales and say that acknowleding these issues, and questioning the Amazon price slashes, lacklustre LE bundle sales, and mediocre sales compared to other big AAA exclusives is conjecture? If you think not having every bit of sales data at our disposal means we can't have a meaningful discussion, then we're all guilty of conjecture. 

You're splitting hairs.

Stick to the discussion. You were asked for sources.....by mutiple sources. You haven't provided any. We can work with someone who's got something, but you made several claims and were requested of info, long before I joined the conversation. 

First of all, Uncharted 4 being $49 is not an Amazon Prime deal, you're objectively wrong there. I can't find any other places (aside from Player's Choice Videogames) where the standard edition is heavily discounted, but the limited/special edition is heavily discounted. 

I am discussing based on the limited information we know. I am also, as said previously, taking into account the massive budget, focus, and marketing put on this game, and it appears that Sony wanted to ascend Uncharted 4 out of the mold of lacklustre exclusive sales this gen and have it stand aside multiplat giants of this gen and exclusive giants of the previous gen. If we accept mediocrity and accept that exclusives will never be hardware movers or major sellers up there with the big multiplats (or even PS4 versions of multiplats) this gen, and ignore the massive marketing budget of UC4 unlike anything ever seen before by Sony for a game on their fastest selling console to date, then maybe the sales will be "good" in that context, but I think when Sony puts such a focus on this game and changes what Uncharted 4 means for the platform, then we need to adjust our expectations accordingly, as Sony likely has as well (unfortunately we will likely never know if UC4 met internal expectations).

And of course this goes without saying that this is in conjunction with a variety of other factors listed in the previous post (Amazon price slash, no PR, disappointing LE console performance, etc.) I would include Japan sales being up only 3% from UC3, but Japan is an exception to the global market in practically way, so I won't go there. 

 it makes you an idiot

Okay, no.

I have no particular leanings about which side is right or wrong in this, etc, but I am nothing if not a stickler for proper debating decorum, and you've displayed a startling lack of it that I do have to comment on. Especially given Teeqoz did exactly what he should have done, and a bit of what you should have done as well.

It was your choice to specify that 'those are just PS4 sales.' You made that claim of your own volition. Teeqoz has, (unless you have a logical reason to insist otherwise,) partially disproven you on that statement. If you didn't want Teeqoz to 'split hairs,' you shouldn't have made that statement in the first place. Or, seeing as you have made it, you should at least concede your mistake, rather than crtiicizing the responder for actually calling you on it. This isn't even counting the fact that he was only able to disprove you by going out to track down the thread himself. Now, in order to see just how right or wrong you actually are, he'd have to track down all the OTHER game launches you've listed as well, because you've shown we really can't rely on your word alone. =P