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Forums - Sony Discussion - Ratchet and Clank PS4 analysis (DigitalFoundry)

Mr Puggsly on 11 April 2016
Lawlight said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well its a series people were accustomed to play at 60 fps, so the frame drop sucks. I mean people wouldn't be happy if the next God of War was gonna be locked at 30 fps.

I haven't played the series much so I'm not complaining personally.

There hasn't been a 60fps R&C game in7 years. I think people will be fine.

Well the PS3 remaster wasn't 7 years ago and not really valid argument.

Either way, I understand the disappointment. People should just wait for the remaster if the framrerate is a big issue for them.



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Frogger on 11 April 2016
HoloDust said:

I don't think they would go with 60fps, no matter how much GPU juice you give them, they would still go with 30fps and better visuals (game looks great, but let's be realistic, that's not Pixar level, let alone ILM with Rango). It's simply design decision, just like, let's say, Zelda@30fps is design decision.

I know it's a design decision. A bad one. Zelda is a seamless, massively open world game on 7th generation-level hardware. It's trading off framerate for a larger more seamless world, something that directly, tangibly, and possitively effects gameplay. It's also already made sacrifices to the aliasing, resolution, and texture quality, is cel-shaded, and uses other means of lowering visial fidelity to achieve this, so there's not much else they could do to the game without making it literally not function. I can respect that design decision, as their hands were tied on that one and they made sacrifices in all areas technically possible to make it work.

If R&C was an open world game on 7th generation-level hardware, I'd be forgiving of 30fps for it too. But it's not. If Zelda isn't 60fps when it's ported to NX, I will be just as critical, because it won't have the alibi on stronger hardware that it currently has on its weaker hardware. PS4 and XBO both ran MGSV at 60fps in an open world. NX should be doing it too with Zelda.



aLkaLiNE on 11 April 2016
spemanig said:
HoloDust said:

I don't think they would go with 60fps, no matter how much GPU juice you give them, they would still go with 30fps and better visuals (game looks great, but let's be realistic, that's not Pixar level, let alone ILM with Rango). It's simply design decision, just like, let's say, Zelda@30fps is design decision.

I know it's a design decision. A bad one. Zelda is a seamless, massively open world game on 7th generation-level hardware. It's trading off framerate for a larger more seamless world, something that directly, tangibly, and possitively effects gameplay. It's also already made sacrifices to the aliasing, resolution, and texture quality, is cel-shaded, and uses other means of lowering visial fidelity to achieve this, so there's not much else they could do to the game without making it literally not function. I can respect that design decision, as their hands were tied on that one and they made sacrifices in all areas technically possible to make it work.

If R&C was an open world game on 7th generation-level hardware, I'd be forgiving of 30fps for it too. But it's not. If Zelda isn't 60fps when it's ported to NX, I will be just as critical, because it won't have the alibi on stronger hardware that it currently has on its weaker hardware. PS4 and XBO both ran MGSV at 60fps in an open world. NX should be doing it too with Zelda.

It really doesn't affect gameplay. The only ones that seem to vocally care don't have a ps4 or weren't going to buy the game in the first place, but I can tell you right now that the core users that grew up on this franchise clearly don't seem to mind. And in an offline game where 60fps offers no performance edge, it makes total sense that insomniac would prioritize full HD fidelity as opposed to the twitchy hyper reactive controls that 60fps brings. There is -no- benefit to an offline game where controls were never an issue in the first place. I would rather take the Pixar like visuals any day, the key thing here is that it's 30fps CONSISTENTLY.

 

 

 

edit- and there's been a demo available at Best Buy for a while now. I played it and the frames per second never even crossed my mind, the game felt great

 

 

double edit (I've stated this in another thread)

charm>consistency>resolution>fps for single player games.



DivinePaladin on 11 April 2016
spemanig said:
HoloDust said:

I don't think they would go with 60fps, no matter how much GPU juice you give them, they would still go with 30fps and better visuals (game looks great, but let's be realistic, that's not Pixar level, let alone ILM with Rango). It's simply design decision, just like, let's say, Zelda@30fps is design decision.

I know it's a design decision. A bad one. Zelda is a seamless, massively open world game on 7th generation-level hardware. It's trading off framerate for a larger more seamless world, something that directly, tangibly, and possitively effects gameplay. It's also already made sacrifices to the aliasing, resolution, and texture quality, is cel-shaded, and uses other means of lowering visial fidelity to achieve this, so there's not much else they could do to the game without making it literally not function. I can respect that design decision, as their hands were tied on that one and they made sacrifices in all areas technically possible to make it work.

If R&C was an open world game on 7th generation-level hardware, I'd be forgiving of 30fps for it too. But it's not. If Zelda isn't 60fps when it's ported to NX, I will be just as critical, because it won't have the alibi on stronger hardware that it currently has on its weaker hardware. PS4 and XBO both ran MGSV at 60fps in an open world. NX should be doing it too with Zelda.

MGSV also had a budget MUCH higher than this AA-at-best game. The movie AND game combined had a $40m budget, which is tiny for either medium - and MGSV alone probably reaches around five times that amount. 

 

A game is only as powerful as its budget dictates, and Insomniac has lived off of small budget games its entire career. 

 

Stop being argumentative and arguing good or bad in a subject that doesn't have black and white. You know better than to hyperbolize. If this developer, who has made successful low budget games for 20 years, can do so better at 30FPS, then who is somebody on the web to dictate it's a bad decision? Come on. 



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Frogger on 11 April 2016
aLkaLiNE said:

It really doesn't affect gameplay. The only ones that seem to vocally care don't have a ps4 or weren't going to buy the game in the first place, but I can tell you right now that the core users that grew up on this franchise clearly don't seem to mind. And in an offline game where 60fps offers no performance edge, it makes total sense that insomniac would prioritize full HD fidelity as opposed to the twitchy hyper reactive controls that 60fps brings. There is -no- benefit to an offline game where controls were never an issue in the first place. I would rather take the Pixar like visuals any day, the key thing here is that it's 30fps CONSISTENTLY.

 

 

 

edit- and there's been a demo available at Best Buy for a while now. I played it and the frames per second never even crossed my mind, the game felt great

 

 

double edit (I've stated this in another thread)

charm>consistency>resolution>fps for single player games.

 

DivinePaladin said:

MGSV also had a budget MUCH higher than this AA-at-best game. The movie AND game combined had a $40m budget, which is tiny for either medium - and MGSV alone probably reaches around five times that amount. 

 

A game is only as powerful as its budget dictates, and Insomniac has lived off of small budget games its entire career. 

 

Stop being argumentative and arguing good or bad in a subject that doesn't have black and white. You know better than to hyperbolize. If this developer, who has made successful low budget games for 20 years, can do so better at 30FPS, then who is somebody on the web to dictate it's a bad decision? Come on. 

Honestly, while I'd love to continue this, I'm not comfortable risking moderation when my first post here was reported. I'm not trying to be a trouble-maker. Adios!



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method114 on 11 April 2016

We're on uncharted 3 then I'm Going to get this.



binary solo on 11 April 2016

IMO for single player I prefer 1080p over 60fps. for multiplayer I think sacrificing res to achieve 60fps is the better choice. Since R7C is SP only then 30fps to achieve 1080p was the right call.



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Frogger on 11 April 2016
CGI-Quality said:

If it makes you feel any better, moderation was the furthest thing from my mind. :)

Thank you. It does. :)

But I think I'll step away anyway. Contrary to how my behavior here may lead people to believe, being argumentative actually stresses me out, so it's good to step away sometimes, lol.



alabtrosMyster on 11 April 2016

I must live in a different world than you, but lowering the resolution does not magically affect the frame rate... Chances are it would run at 60+ fps when nothing is going on, then when the action picks up, it could drop all the way to 30ish fps, you really can't tell until you tried a specific game on the specific hardware... Now, if I was in charge I would have kept the 1080p, the ps4 has way too much fill rate for the resolution to be an issue... But cut everything else until your game runs at 60fps please!



thismeintiel on 11 April 2016
Lawlight said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Well its a series people were accustomed to play at 60 fps, so the frame drop sucks. I mean people wouldn't be happy if the next God of War was gonna be locked at 30 fps.

I haven't played the series much so I'm not complaining personally.

There hasn't been a 60fps R&C game in7 years. I think people will be fine.

And only the remasters of GOW run at 60fps.  The original games didn't.