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Forums - Nintendo - How can Nintendo make their games big again?

Too expensive for Nintendo to expect that level of care. For doing that, they'll need Kimi to think in a bigger picture and I'm not sure if he can. We'll see soon if they are going to do big games like Galaxy again, or if they are going in the cheap route...



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


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Pavolink said:

Too expensive for Nintendo to expect that level of care. For doing that, they'll need Kimi to think in a bigger picture and I'm not sure if he can. We'll see soon if they are going to do big games like Galaxy again, or if they are going in the cheap route...

If you're saying Galaxy, then Zelda U could be it, maybe better. Because regardless of how many times we've praised the gameplay and level design, it's still Mario to its core, including story (or lack thereof), just with a little added bonus of Rosalina's backstory. As I said earlier, Zelda U is trying to prevent going to the conventions that made the 3D Zelda formula and stick out as something different and unique for the franchise. It's not like the ambition vanished after 7th gen. Plus, considering that there were little to no third-parties supporting them after launch, you might have to compromise on what kind of games you can release, especially within reasonable time. Then you have to consider one big point that we've swept under the rug, this is the first generation in which Nintendo started developing HD games, which are much more complicated to make, much more expensive, and much more time consuming. 

And people think Nintendo is no longer ambitious and are cheap. Xenoblade X is not cheap, Splatoon is ambitious. Of course we're going to talk about 3D World and Tropical Freeze as examples, but its not like Nintendo is not trying anymore. Look at Fire Emblem Awakening, Kid Icarus Uprising, A Link Between Worlds, Super Mario Maker, the two games I've previously mentioned, etc. Great games that stood out from their franchises in their own way. Awakening was a project that put everything about Fire Emblem together (i.e., marriage from Geneology, the weapons triangle, the expansion of the upgraded classes, ranked dialogue, etc.) and gave the game an element that would ultimately grant it it's success, accessibility with casual mode. Kid Icarus Uprising marks a surprise return after a hint of it in Smash Bros. Brawl and even expanding upon the universe to make it a fan favorite.

Whether or not they'll go for cinematic stuff of the modern games or the high-end graphical powered games, it's up to them and their desired philosophy, which has always been gameplay first. Frankly, I'm not sure if Mario is suited for this cinematic stuff because that's not within the nature of his games. Zelda on the other hand could benefit, if well-executed. But then again, you could have the best voice actors in the world or the best script and the game might not be as memorable gameplay-wise. I think after we see NX and what kind of games they put out, we'll figure it out what they are still capable of once they get that experience in HD development in.



Kai_Mao said:
Pavolink said:

Too expensive for Nintendo to expect that level of care. For doing that, they'll need Kimi to think in a bigger picture and I'm not sure if he can. We'll see soon if they are going to do big games like Galaxy again, or if they are going in the cheap route...

If you're saying Galaxy, then Zelda U could be it, maybe better. Because regardless of how many times we've praised the gameplay and level design, it's still Mario to its core, including story (or lack thereof), just with a little added bonus of Rosalina's backstory. As I said earlier, Zelda U is trying to prevent going to the conventions that made the 3D Zelda formula and stick out as something different and unique for the franchise. It's not like the ambition vanished after 7th gen. Plus, considering that there were little to no third-parties supporting them after launch, you might have to compromise on what kind of games you can release, especially within reasonable time. Then you have to consider one big point that we've swept under the rug, this is the first generation in which Nintendo started developing HD games, which are much more complicated to make, much more expensive, and much more time consuming. 

And people think Nintendo is no longer ambitious and are cheap. Xenoblade X is not cheap, Splatoon is ambitious. Of course we're going to talk about 3D World and Tropical Freeze as examples, but its not like Nintendo is not trying anymore. Look at Fire Emblem Awakening, Kid Icarus Uprising, A Link Between Worlds, Super Mario Maker, the two games I've previously mentioned, etc. Great games that stood out from their franchises in their own way. Awakening was a project that put everything about Fire Emblem together (i.e., marriage from Geneology, the weapons triangle, the expansion of the upgraded classes, ranked dialogue, etc.) and gave the game an element that would ultimately grant it it's success, accessibility with casual mode. Kid Icarus Uprising marks a surprise return after a hint of it in Smash Bros. Brawl and even expanding upon the universe to make it a fan favorite.

Whether or not they'll go for cinematic stuff of the modern games or the high-end graphical powered games, it's up to them and their desired philosophy, which has always been gameplay first. Frankly, I'm not sure if Mario is suited for this cinematic stuff because that's not within the nature of his games. Zelda on the other hand could benefit, if well-executed. But then again, you could have the best voice actors in the world or the best script and the game might not be as memorable gameplay-wise. I think after we see NX and what kind of games they put out, we'll figure it out what they are still capable of once they get that experience in HD development in.

Galaxy is pure gameplay and thrumps on 3DWorld without effort.

As for Zelda, I'm going to wait until it's released.

About X, it's a very good and ambitious game. But in the barren Wii U library there's not much to compare with.

I prefer to pass on Splatoon comment.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Pavolink said:
Kai_Mao said:

If you're saying Galaxy, then Zelda U could be it, maybe better. Because regardless of how many times we've praised the gameplay and level design, it's still Mario to its core, including story (or lack thereof), just with a little added bonus of Rosalina's backstory. As I said earlier, Zelda U is trying to prevent going to the conventions that made the 3D Zelda formula and stick out as something different and unique for the franchise. It's not like the ambition vanished after 7th gen. Plus, considering that there were little to no third-parties supporting them after launch, you might have to compromise on what kind of games you can release, especially within reasonable time. Then you have to consider one big point that we've swept under the rug, this is the first generation in which Nintendo started developing HD games, which are much more complicated to make, much more expensive, and much more time consuming. 

And people think Nintendo is no longer ambitious and are cheap. Xenoblade X is not cheap, Splatoon is ambitious. Of course we're going to talk about 3D World and Tropical Freeze as examples, but its not like Nintendo is not trying anymore. Look at Fire Emblem Awakening, Kid Icarus Uprising, A Link Between Worlds, Super Mario Maker, the two games I've previously mentioned, etc. Great games that stood out from their franchises in their own way. Awakening was a project that put everything about Fire Emblem together (i.e., marriage from Geneology, the weapons triangle, the expansion of the upgraded classes, ranked dialogue, etc.) and gave the game an element that would ultimately grant it it's success, accessibility with casual mode. Kid Icarus Uprising marks a surprise return after a hint of it in Smash Bros. Brawl and even expanding upon the universe to make it a fan favorite.

Whether or not they'll go for cinematic stuff of the modern games or the high-end graphical powered games, it's up to them and their desired philosophy, which has always been gameplay first. Frankly, I'm not sure if Mario is suited for this cinematic stuff because that's not within the nature of his games. Zelda on the other hand could benefit, if well-executed. But then again, you could have the best voice actors in the world or the best script and the game might not be as memorable gameplay-wise. I think after we see NX and what kind of games they put out, we'll figure it out what they are still capable of once they get that experience in HD development in.

Galaxy is pure gameplay and thrumps on 3DWorld without effort.

As for Zelda, I'm going to wait until it's released.

About X, it's a very good and ambitious game. But in the barren Wii U library there's not much to compare with.

I prefer to pass on Splatoon comment.

That's fine. I respect your opinion on this.

As much as I love Galaxy as the next guy, I can't just dismiss 3D World, especially when it takes the multiple characters element from Mario Bros. USA and the multiplayer element from NSMBWii with the gameplay and level design excellence from 3D Land.

Zelda's still up in the air, but hints of what it wants to do comes from A Link Between Worlds, so take that for what you will, as a Zelda fan from what I presume.

I would even put Smash Bros. WiiU/3DS, as I've mentioned many times before, along with the games I've mentioned in my previous comment. Sure, not in single player, but with multiplayer, Smash Bros. is pretty crazy. 8-player Smash, Smash Run, Smash Tour (if all your friends know how to play it), online, etc. Plus, the roster is all-time great. Pushing the boundaries of what a video game crossover can be like. Yes, its not the first crossover in a video game, but for a pure video game crossover (no comics, anime, manga, etc.), this is amazing.

Edit: I feel terrible missing Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE as another type of game that goes away from Nintendo's usual output. Sure, its Persona, but it's still its own idea that combines real-world Japan, pop culture Japan, and Fire Emblem. I look forward to this game! 



spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

I actually agree with you.

Nintendo isn't fulfilling even a fraction of the potential of their IPs these days. Games like Mario 3D World and Tropical Freeze may be polished for what they are, but they play it so safe that they ultimately feel like missed opportunities. Instead of pushing the envelope and aiming for greatness like they did in past gens, they are settling for "good enough" instead.

Not a single game they have released on Wii U has the boundary-shattering magnificence of games like Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, or Ocarina of Time. Not one.

Nobody is going to look back in 10 years and talk about what a timeless classic New Super Mario Bros U was.

I mean, don't get me wrong, they've produced some awesome games for Wii U, but I still feel like the system never had its Galaxy, its Ocarina, its Prime. Maybe Zelda U can be that game, but even if it is, its arriving too late to make much of a difference, and will likely have its impact blunted by being shared with NX.

Yeah. I didn't want to misconstrue that I think Wii U games aren't good, because they are, but Nintendo does not treat these IP like the AAA world stopping block busters that they can be.

I would love for Zelda U to prove me wrong, but I don't think it will. I think it will be pheonominal, but no one is going to look at Zelda U the way they look at Frozen. Or as a more gaming reference, the way they looked at GTAV/TLOU. You can hold whatever perceptions you want about this games, but they stole attention when they came out, and that's because Disney and Rockstar and Sony cared enough to poor as much money as necessary to make sure every aspect of those works were as well produced as monetarily possible.

Zelda's artstyle is beautiful and I'm hoping the animations become less stiff, but the make it or break it will be the script and whether or not it has voice acting and, if it does, the talent and direction of those voice actors. Nintendo aren't some financially bankrupt company. They have the money and the IP to hire TLOU-level voice actors and TLOU-level writers and TLOU level casting directors, and it would single handedly change Zelda U from a game that fans will be happy about to a game that it actually titanic and influential to the entire gaming industry the way OoT was and ALttP was and Mario 64 was. And when I say TLOU-quality, I don't mean some gritty dramatic Zelda. I mean a Zelda with actual production values. People compare Zelda U to Princess Mononoke. How about some Princess Mononoke-level VA and script?

The fact that people actually believe that a game like Zelda can't compete with the biggest releases of this year is embarrasing. The fact that Zelda didn't make a top ten most anticipated games of 2016 list is fucking embarrasing. It doesn't matter if they've barely shown anything. This isn't any game. It's fucking Zelda, and that alone should make it number one, but it's not, because Nintendo has cheapen out on the franchise the past decade to the point where it hasn't resonated with the modern audience of gaming since. With some money and care, it will. The IP is good enough and the team is good enough. Just don't skimp out on anything.

I honestly think the script is as big a sticking point as voice acting in Zelda.

In a post-Uncharted, post-Bioshock, post-TLOU world, most gamers will be rolling their eyes in contempt when "oh brave youth chosen by the gods, a dark evil has awakened..." scrolls across the screen in super slow text yet again. We've all heard it before a billion times before. It's boring. It's lazy.

Hiring an actual writer to pen an actual story would go a long way towards bolstering the franchise's reputation.

PS: Is it only me whose seeing all the recent comments in all italics?



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CaptainExplosion said:
KungKras said:
On topic. Nintendo need to fire Aonuma and give the Zelda franchise to someone who understands what was fun in Zelda1 - OoT.

They need to get more software studios and start experimenting with new IP alongside their classic franchises.

Their games in old IP have to bring new content (IE new worlds with new ideas).

Fire Aonuma, seriously? Next you'll be saying fire Kimishima because he hasn't revealed the NX yet.

bigtakilla said:

Would that be a bad thing though, lol.

Yes, because it would lead to the NX having a gamepad, that's what I mean.

But would that be a bad thing either? I just think if they are going to put a gamepad with the system, they damn well better delever the games that could benefit from a gamepad. I also wouldn't mind Wii U owners being able to use the gamepad as a 2nd controller. Keeps a little of the value for buying the thing.



Kai_Mao said:
Pavolink said:

Galaxy is pure gameplay and thrumps on 3DWorld without effort.

As for Zelda, I'm going to wait until it's released.

About X, it's a very good and ambitious game. But in the barren Wii U library there's not much to compare with.

I prefer to pass on Splatoon comment.

That's fine. I respect your opinion on this.

As much as I love Galaxy as the next guy, I can't just dismiss 3D World, especially when it takes the multiple characters element from Mario Bros. USA and the multiplayer element from NSMBWii with the gameplay and level design excellence from 3D Land.

Zelda's still up in the air, but hints of what it wants to do comes from A Link Between Worlds, so take that for what you will, as a Zelda fan from what I presume.

I would even put Smash Bros. WiiU/3DS, as I've mentioned many times before, along with the games I've mentioned in my previous comment. Sure, not in single player, but with multiplayer, Smash Bros. is pretty crazy. 8-player Smash, Smash Run, Smash Tour (if all your friends know how to play it), online, etc. Plus, the roster is all-time great. Pushing the boundaries of what a video game crossover can be like. Yes, its not the first crossover in a video game, but for a pure video game crossover (no comics, anime, manga, etc.), this is amazing.

Edit: I feel terrible missing Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE as another type of game that goes away from Nintendo's usual output. Sure, its Persona, but it's still its own idea that combines real-world Japan, pop culture Japan, and Fire Emblem. I look forward to this game! 

I was about to say Smash as a whole is the biggest and most ambitious in its series easily, and Zelda we can pretty much gather is giong to be ambitious as hell too. And while anyone can pass on any comment on any game (which is fine), I couldn't imagine anyone saying Splatoon isn't one of the most ambitious titles in recent Nintendo history.



curl-6 said:

I honestly think the script is as big a sticking point as voice acting in Zelda.

In a post-Uncharted, post-Bioshock, post-TLOU world, most gamers will be rolling their eyes in contempt when "oh brave youth chosen by the gods, a dark evil has awakened..." scrolls across the screen in super slow text yet again. We've all heard it before a billion times before. It's boring. It's lazy.

Hiring an actual writer to pen an actual story would go a long way towards bolstering the franchise's reputation.

PS: Is it only me whose seeing all the recent comments in all italics?

I don't think it even needs to stray away from being a simple story about a brave youth and a sword. But there's a huge difference in quality between Aonuma writing a story about a dude with a sword and a real writer writing a story about a youth and a sword. I stand by the position that there has absolutely never been a good story in a Zelda game. Never. At best they where shallow and unintrusive like in WW, OoT, and MM and at worse they were terrible fanfiction like in TP and SS. And whatever if that was the case in 1996, they had an alibi, but it damn well shouldn't be the case now. I 100% agree with the sentiment that script is just as big an issue as VA. They go hand in hand in my book.

Also, no you aren't. It's driving me insane.



Stop the huge amount of rip offs and sell more hardware



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

I honestly think the script is as big a sticking point as voice acting in Zelda.

In a post-Uncharted, post-Bioshock, post-TLOU world, most gamers will be rolling their eyes in contempt when "oh brave youth chosen by the gods, a dark evil has awakened..." scrolls across the screen in super slow text yet again. We've all heard it before a billion times before. It's boring. It's lazy.

Hiring an actual writer to pen an actual story would go a long way towards bolstering the franchise's reputation.

PS: Is it only me whose seeing all the recent comments in all italics?

I don't think it even needs to stray away from being a simple story about a brave youth and a sword. But there's a huge difference in quality between Aonuma writing a story about a dude with a sword and a real writer writing a story about a youth and a sword. I stand by the position that there has absolutely never been a good story in a Zelda game. Never. At best they where shallow and unintrusive like in WW, OoT, and MM and at worse they were terrible fanfiction like in TP and SS. And whatever if that was the case in 1996, they had an alibi, but it damn well shouldn't be the case now. I 100% agree with the sentiment that script is just as big an issue as VA. They go hand in hand in my book.

Also, no you aren't. It's driving me insane.

Perhaps I should rephrase; I'm not saying Zelda needs a complex story like Bioshock.

It can still be a story about a youth with a sword. It just needs to not be the same copy-pasted "oh brave youth blah blah blah chosen by the gods blah blah blah reclaim the triforce blah blah blah a great evil awakens blah blah blah" we've heard time after time since 1998.

A story can still be simple and straightforward without being mind-numblingly been-there-done-that to the point of being almost literal copypasta.