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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft to unify PC and Xbox One platforms, ending fixed console hardware

exclusive_console on 02 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
I'm a bit lost in regards to what some users on the internet think is happening. Especially hearing some say they take this as Microsoft leaving console gaming. From what I understand after looking through a lot of info and what Phil Spencer actually said, is as follows.

PC and current Xbox One share a lot in common for software. Particularly games made for the Windows 10 store. Both current Xbox One and Windows 10 PC will have a unified store and both use Direct X 12 for games. Designing a game on Windows 10 PC can be easily ported with just a few tweaks and downgrades for Xbox One. The Xbox One as of November 2014 uses Windows 10 with the exact same Kernel as Windows 10 PC and Mobile.

Now as for Xbox being upgradable :

It will NOT be an Xbox where you physically upgrade components.

Every 3 years a new model of Xbox will release. For example 2016, 2019, 2022, 2025. And so on. This does NOT mean people who bought the Xbox One in 2013 HAVE to upgrade. Because it will still play every single title released to roughly 2021. Albeit at a weaker visual clarity and framerate alongside the existing PS4. People who don't care for cutting edge graphics will stick with their Xbox 2013 models or their PS4s.

Lets say this year the Xbox version 2 is released at xmas. With 12gb DDR4 ram, 2 x generational better GPU over 2013 Xbox model and the same CPU just clocked higher and more CACHE. It might have 2x HDMI in ports and be able to stream Netflix at 4k as well as Blurays in 4k etc. Visuals will be able to maintain 1080p @ 60fps with any title and be far far closer to top end PC games.

Its entirely the consumers choice to upgrade if they want. Because every iteration of the Xbox will have exactly the same Windows 10 dashboard that exists right now on Xbox One. Connect to the exact same Xbox Live. The only difference being that version to has better hardware to run games better and have more PC settings turned on. Also gamers don't need to be the ones to turn settings on and off. That's done by the devs.

For example. A developer creating a game in the Windows 10 ecosystem today only needs to modify small variations of code and change design inputs for each device. Touch, Mouse, controller. The dev creates the game at full spec for PC, then scales down the visuals for box version 2, then scales down for Xbox version 1. No extra multiple years of development like some are claiming. Microsoft designed Windows 10 for developers to be able to do this. Another reason why Xbox One got Direct X 12.

You cannot play PS5 games on PS4. Likewise eventually Xbox One 2013 will not play newer games say 2021 onwards. The difference is Microsoft is changing the game here and giving console owners a choice when they want to upgrade. EXACTLY the same as Smartphones, Tablets and even PC to a degree. Albeit PC is individual parts.

I do not see Microsoft releasing a new model every year or even 2. But I fully expect an announcement of a new model at E3 or just after for release this xmas. Then again every 3 years. There will be no interchangeable parts. This makes perfect sense. Hurts absolutely no one, and also means along with full mouse and keyboard support later this year Xbox console will get all Windows 10 PC exclusives with a unified store. IMO this is a game changer

 

They cannot be buying apu so often. It cost hundreds of million $ to make a console. It will be a boxed PC I guess not really conosle



 

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TheMessiah on 02 March 2016
SvennoJ said:
TheMessiah said:
I'm a bit lost in regards to what some users on the internet think is happening. Especially hearing some say they take this as Microsoft leaving console gaming. From what I understand after looking through a lot of info and what Phil Spencer actually said, is as follows.

PC and current Xbox One share a lot in common for software. Particularly games made for the Windows 10 store. Both current Xbox One and Windows 10 PC will have a unified store and both use Direct X 12 for games. Designing a game on Windows 10 PC can be easily ported with just a few tweaks and downgrades for Xbox One. The Xbox One as of November 2014 uses Windows 10 with the exact same Kernel as Windows 10 PC and Mobile.

Now as for Xbox being upgradable :

It will NOT be an Xbox where you physically upgrade components.

Every 3 years a new model of Xbox will release. For example 2016, 2019, 2022, 2025. And so on. This does NOT mean people who bought the Xbox One in 2013 HAVE to upgrade. Because it will still play every single title released to roughly 2021. Albeit at a weaker visual clarity and framerate alongside the existing PS4. People who don't care for cutting edge graphics will stick with their Xbox 2013 models or their PS4s.

Lets say this year the Xbox version 2 is released at xmas. With 12gb DDR4 ram, 2 x generational better GPU over 2013 Xbox model and the same CPU just clocked higher and more CACHE. It might have 2x HDMI in ports and be able to stream Netflix at 4k as well as Blurays in 4k etc. Visuals will be able to maintain 1080p @ 60fps with any title and be far far closer to top end PC games.

Its entirely the consumers choice to upgrade if they want. Because every iteration of the Xbox will have exactly the same Windows 10 dashboard that exists right now on Xbox One. Connect to the exact same Xbox Live. The only difference being that version to has better hardware to run games better and have more PC settings turned on. Also gamers don't need to be the ones to turn settings on and off. That's done by the devs.

For example. A developer creating a game in the Windows 10 ecosystem today only needs to modify small variations of code and change design inputs for each device. Touch, Mouse, controller. The dev creates the game at full spec for PC, then scales down the visuals for box version 2, then scales down for Xbox version 1. No extra multiple years of development like some are claiming. Microsoft designed Windows 10 for developers to be able to do this. Another reason why Xbox One got Direct X 12.

You cannot play PS5 games on PS4. Likewise eventually Xbox One 2013 will not play newer games say 2021 onwards. The difference is Microsoft is changing the game here and giving console owners a choice when they want to upgrade. EXACTLY the same as Smartphones, Tablets and even PC to a degree. Albeit PC is individual parts.

I do not see Microsoft releasing a new model every year or even 2. But I fully expect an announcement of a new model at E3 or just after for release this xmas. Then again every 3 years. There will be no interchangeable parts. This makes perfect sense. Hurts absolutely no one, and also means along with full mouse and keyboard support later this year Xbox console will get all Windows 10 PC exclusives with a unified store. IMO this is a game changer

That sounds all perfectly reasonable, yet it's a more costly model over all.

It all comes down to economies of scale. Consoles make their most sales after the first price cut and slim model revisions and profit increases during the gen simply because the hardware gets cheaper to make.  What you're suggesting is cutting the production run of a console in half or worse. A slim model is a simple redisign that doesn't need a lot of R&D or QA, a new premium model will need all that. Extra SKUs, extra support, extra marketing.
Plus those people (the majority) that wait for the affordable slim model will feel conflicted. Will MS still provide that slim update of the original model, is the old model going to drop in price, should you just buy a refurbished model after the hardcore upgrades? And how well will it run new games. The premium model is not going to be cheaper, likely more expensive as the projected lifetime sales will be less, simply due to fragmentation.

From the developer perspective, now they have more SKUs to run through QA. There is no magic make it stable 30fps button. It might be a lot less work than porting between generations, it is still extra work. Every patch has to be tested on all SKUs etc.

From the users point of view, even more bullshots. Downgrades are the biggest complaint every time, now there is a valid reason. Well it will look like that on the next hardware version that will inevitably come out in 2 years. It's fully forward compatible, so enjoy the slighty dull looking version now and play it again later the way it was meant to be played.

There will be some fragmentation of the user base. Suppose the new hardware version can have higher multiplayer counts online. Should it limit itself to cross play with the old version, or too bad, upgrade if you want to continue playing with your friends.


I don't doubt there will be a slim model with hdmi 2.0, 4k Netflix, upscaling blu-rays and all. A bit snappier interface, better hdd maybe ssd hybrid. Yet actually changing the hardware spec and selling it at full price again, I don't think so. The whole point of the mid gen 'new' affordable slim models is to get the majority to move over to the current gen, while making the most profit on sales.


I don't think it will be a game changer. More like confusion to the likes of the WiiU. Lots of people thought it was a simple upgrade and therefore ignored it. Ofcourse this game changer would make it fully justified to ignore the new models, games still work, well until some don't. Minimum and recommended specs for console games, ugh.

I believe they will use non custom chips. Just off the shelf. Make it cheaper. We already know that Remedy didnt start the PC version of Quantum Break till well into development. And its ready the same day of release. Sea Of Thieves and Halo Wars 2 are also games we know are being developed with UWP ( Universal Windows Platform ) and are releasing same day and date as Xbox One.

This is gonna happen. Phil was asked for specific plans. His reply was, Not at this event. We will lay out detailed plans for this but at a later date. Microsoft are definately no longer doing long generations. As of now. Everything they have been doing points to it. Especially UWP.



Soundwave on 02 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
SvennoJ said:

That sounds all perfectly reasonable, yet it's a more costly model over all.

It all comes down to economies of scale. Consoles make their most sales after the first price cut and slim model revisions and profit increases during the gen simply because the hardware gets cheaper to make.  What you're suggesting is cutting the production run of a console in half or worse. A slim model is a simple redisign that doesn't need a lot of R&D or QA, a new premium model will need all that. Extra SKUs, extra support, extra marketing.
Plus those people (the majority) that wait for the affordable slim model will feel conflicted. Will MS still provide that slim update of the original model, is the old model going to drop in price, should you just buy a refurbished model after the hardcore upgrades? And how well will it run new games. The premium model is not going to be cheaper, likely more expensive as the projected lifetime sales will be less, simply due to fragmentation.

From the developer perspective, now they have more SKUs to run through QA. There is no magic make it stable 30fps button. It might be a lot less work than porting between generations, it is still extra work. Every patch has to be tested on all SKUs etc.

From the users point of view, even more bullshots. Downgrades are the biggest complaint every time, now there is a valid reason. Well it will look like that on the next hardware version that will inevitably come out in 2 years. It's fully forward compatible, so enjoy the slighty dull looking version now and play it again later the way it was meant to be played.

There will be some fragmentation of the user base. Suppose the new hardware version can have higher multiplayer counts online. Should it limit itself to cross play with the old version, or too bad, upgrade if you want to continue playing with your friends.


I don't doubt there will be a slim model with hdmi 2.0, 4k Netflix, upscaling blu-rays and all. A bit snappier interface, better hdd maybe ssd hybrid. Yet actually changing the hardware spec and selling it at full price again, I don't think so. The whole point of the mid gen 'new' affordable slim models is to get the majority to move over to the current gen, while making the most profit on sales.


I don't think it will be a game changer. More like confusion to the likes of the WiiU. Lots of people thought it was a simple upgrade and therefore ignored it. Ofcourse this game changer would make it fully justified to ignore the new models, games still work, well until some don't. Minimum and recommended specs for console games, ugh.

I believe they will use non custom chips. Just off the shelf. Make it cheaper. We already know that Remedy didnt start the PC version of Quantum Break till well into development. And its ready the same day of release. Sea Of Thieves and Halo Wars 2 are also games we know are being developed with UWP ( Universal Windows Platform ) and are releasing same day and date as Xbox One.

This is gonna happen. Phil was asked for specific plans. His reply was, Not at this event. We will lay out detailed plans for this but at a later date. Microsoft are definately no longer doing long generations. As of now. Everything they have been doing points to it. Especially UWP.

This business model suits Microsoft much moreso anyway. It's just bringing something that's common for PCs and streamlining it to the home console. 

I don't see why people think it's rocket science. Bill Gates actually wanted the original XBox to be like this. 



potato_hamster on 02 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
SvennoJ said:

That sounds all perfectly reasonable, yet it's a more costly model over all.

It all comes down to economies of scale. Consoles make their most sales after the first price cut and slim model revisions and profit increases during the gen simply because the hardware gets cheaper to make.  What you're suggesting is cutting the production run of a console in half or worse. A slim model is a simple redisign that doesn't need a lot of R&D or QA, a new premium model will need all that. Extra SKUs, extra support, extra marketing.
Plus those people (the majority) that wait for the affordable slim model will feel conflicted. Will MS still provide that slim update of the original model, is the old model going to drop in price, should you just buy a refurbished model after the hardcore upgrades? And how well will it run new games. The premium model is not going to be cheaper, likely more expensive as the projected lifetime sales will be less, simply due to fragmentation.

From the developer perspective, now they have more SKUs to run through QA. There is no magic make it stable 30fps button. It might be a lot less work than porting between generations, it is still extra work. Every patch has to be tested on all SKUs etc.

From the users point of view, even more bullshots. Downgrades are the biggest complaint every time, now there is a valid reason. Well it will look like that on the next hardware version that will inevitably come out in 2 years. It's fully forward compatible, so enjoy the slighty dull looking version now and play it again later the way it was meant to be played.

There will be some fragmentation of the user base. Suppose the new hardware version can have higher multiplayer counts online. Should it limit itself to cross play with the old version, or too bad, upgrade if you want to continue playing with your friends.


I don't doubt there will be a slim model with hdmi 2.0, 4k Netflix, upscaling blu-rays and all. A bit snappier interface, better hdd maybe ssd hybrid. Yet actually changing the hardware spec and selling it at full price again, I don't think so. The whole point of the mid gen 'new' affordable slim models is to get the majority to move over to the current gen, while making the most profit on sales.


I don't think it will be a game changer. More like confusion to the likes of the WiiU. Lots of people thought it was a simple upgrade and therefore ignored it. Ofcourse this game changer would make it fully justified to ignore the new models, games still work, well until some don't. Minimum and recommended specs for console games, ugh.

I believe they will use non custom chips. Just off the shelf. Make it cheaper. We already know that Remedy didnt start the PC version of Quantum Break till well into development. And its ready the same day of release. Sea Of Thieves and Halo Wars 2 are also games we know are being developed with UWP ( Universal Windows Platform ) and are releasing same day and date as Xbox One.

This is gonna happen. Phil was asked for specific plans. His reply was, Not at this event. We will lay out detailed plans for this but at a later date. Microsoft are definately no longer doing long generations. As of now. Everything they have been doing points to it. Especially UWP.

So your solution is to turn the X1 into a PC. Well why bother with the X1 then? They can just get PC manufacturers to make "X1 certifed PCS" and be done with it.

What's that? That sounds a lot like Steam Machines? You mean the same Steam Machines that no body wants because it has many of the limitations of consoles with few of the positives? Great idea.



TheMessiah on 02 March 2016
potato_hamster said:
TheMessiah said:

I believe they will use non custom chips. Just off the shelf. Make it cheaper. We already know that Remedy didnt start the PC version of Quantum Break till well into development. And its ready the same day of release. Sea Of Thieves and Halo Wars 2 are also games we know are being developed with UWP ( Universal Windows Platform ) and are releasing same day and date as Xbox One.

This is gonna happen. Phil was asked for specific plans. His reply was, Not at this event. We will lay out detailed plans for this but at a later date. Microsoft are definately no longer doing long generations. As of now. Everything they have been doing points to it. Especially UWP.

So your solution is to turn the X1 into a PC. Well why bother with the X1 then? They can just get PC manufacturers to make "X1 certifed PCS" and be done with it.

What's that? That sounds a lot like Steam Machines? You mean the same Steam Machines that no body wants because it has many of the limitations of consoles with few of the positives? Great idea.

The original plan of the original Xbox was to upgrade frequently. It wasnt Steams Idea.

Furthermore Its not like Steam. Valve dont support Steambox. Its just  box with 3rd party digital software. Also open to viruses.

Having a choice to upgrade to a better Xbox every 3 years is great. Its a choice. You dont hve to to play the latest games. But if you are a console gamer that wants top end PC visuals you can trade in your old one, or just pick up a new one. Simple. It hurts noone. Its good for the consumer.



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potato_hamster on 02 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
potato_hamster said:

So your solution is to turn the X1 into a PC. Well why bother with the X1 then? They can just get PC manufacturers to make "X1 certifed PCS" and be done with it.

What's that? That sounds a lot like Steam Machines? You mean the same Steam Machines that no body wants because it has many of the limitations of consoles with few of the positives? Great idea.

The original plan of the original Xbox was to upgrade frequently. It wasnt Steams Idea.

Furthermore Its not like Steam. Valve dont support Steambox. Its just  box with 3rd party digital software. Also open to viruses.

Having a choice to upgrade to a better Xbox every 3 years is great. Its a choice. You dont hve to to play the latest games. But if you are a console gamer that wants top end PC visuals you can trade in your old one, or just pick up a new one. Simple. It hurts noone. Its good for the consumer.

Well of course, the X1 won't be open to viruses. It's the magic box running a magic version of Windows 10 that will magically not be able to be affected by viruses. Ohh wait. Also, valve doesn't support the Steambox? So far they've made over 1500 games compatible with it. That eats the Xbox 1's library for breakfast.

See that's where you're not understanding. If I bought a PS3 at launch I could play all of the lastest games on console from 2006 up until about 2014. That's 9 years of the latest games. Now you're saying If I bought a X1 at launch, then  I can play all of the lastest games on console from 2013 up until about 2016. That's about 4 years of the latest games. Are you not seeing a problem with that?

You remind me a lot of this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYC0sn57_sk



TheMessiah on 02 March 2016
potato_hamster said:
TheMessiah said:

The original plan of the original Xbox was to upgrade frequently. It wasnt Steams Idea.

Furthermore Its not like Steam. Valve dont support Steambox. Its just  box with 3rd party digital software. Also open to viruses.

Having a choice to upgrade to a better Xbox every 3 years is great. Its a choice. You dont hve to to play the latest games. But if you are a console gamer that wants top end PC visuals you can trade in your old one, or just pick up a new one. Simple. It hurts noone. Its good for the consumer.

Well of course, the X1 won't be open to viruses. It's the magic box running a magic version of Windows 10 that will magically not be able to be affected by viruses. Ohh wait.

See that's where you're not understanding. If I bought a PS3 at launch I could play all of the lastest games on console from 2006 up until about 2014. That's 9 years of the latest games. Now you're saying If I bought a X1 at launch, then  I can play all of the lastest games on console from 2013 up until about 2016. That's about 4 years of the latest games. Are you not seeing a problem with that?

You remind me a lot of this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYC0sn57_sk

Have you read anything I posted or that Microsoft actually said? I didn't say anything of the sort. In fact I have said multiple times, you don't have to upgrade. its optional. If you have a 2013 Xbox one it will play all the games right up to 2021ish. But if you want to play those same games with top end pc visuals throughout those years, you might choose to get version 2 in 2016 or version 3 in 2019. To save me retreading, I suggest you go back and read my posts.



potato_hamster on 02 March 2016
TheMessiah said:
potato_hamster said:

Well of course, the X1 won't be open to viruses. It's the magic box running a magic version of Windows 10 that will magically not be able to be affected by viruses. Ohh wait.

See that's where you're not understanding. If I bought a PS3 at launch I could play all of the lastest games on console from 2006 up until about 2014. That's 9 years of the latest games. Now you're saying If I bought a X1 at launch, then  I can play all of the lastest games on console from 2013 up until about 2016. That's about 4 years of the latest games. Are you not seeing a problem with that?

You remind me a lot of this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYC0sn57_sk

Have you read anything I posted or that Microsoft actually said? I didn't say anything of the sort. In fact I have said multiple times, you don't have to upgrade. its optional. If you have a 2013 Xbox one it will play all the games right up to 2021ish. But if you want to play those same games with top end pc visuals throughout those years, you might choose to get version 2 in 2016 or version 3 in 2019. To save me retreading, I suggest you go back and read my posts.

You quite literally said "you don't have to play the latest games". That's a literal quote, just a couple comments above this one.



TheMessiah on 02 March 2016
potato_hamster said:
TheMessiah said:

Have you read anything I posted or that Microsoft actually said? I didn't say anything of the sort. In fact I have said multiple times, you don't have to upgrade. its optional. If you have a 2013 Xbox one it will play all the games right up to 2021ish. But if you want to play those same games with top end pc visuals throughout those years, you might choose to get version 2 in 2016 or version 3 in 2019. To save me retreading, I suggest you go back and read my posts.

You quite literally said "you don't have to play the latest games". That's a literal quote, just a couple comments above this one.

Read that bit again. I said ' you don't have to to play the latest games'. upgrade that is.



exclusive_console on 02 March 2016
potato_hamster said:
TheMessiah said:

The original plan of the original Xbox was to upgrade frequently. It wasnt Steams Idea.

Furthermore Its not like Steam. Valve dont support Steambox. Its just  box with 3rd party digital software. Also open to viruses.

Having a choice to upgrade to a better Xbox every 3 years is great. Its a choice. You dont hve to to play the latest games. But if you are a console gamer that wants top end PC visuals you can trade in your old one, or just pick up a new one. Simple. It hurts noone. Its good for the consumer.

Well of course, the X1 won't be open to viruses. It's the magic box running a magic version of Windows 10 that will magically not be able to be affected by viruses. Ohh wait.

See that's where you're not understanding. If I bought a PS3 at launch I could play all of the lastest games on console from 2006 up until about 2014. That's 9 years of the latest games. Now you're saying If I bought a X1 at launch, then  I can play all of the lastest games on console from 2013 up until about 2016. That's about 4 years of the latest games. Are you not seeing a problem with that?

You remind me a lot of this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYC0sn57_sk

 

What he is saying is that is they will make console say every 3yrs which is not possible as it cost huge amount of money and sell it for 400$ ?? They can make a boxed PC but it will be mid tower pc in size for around 400 I guess. steam box is the closest thing which is what Microsoft might do but that will be expensive to cramp everything into a sleek box. It will most likely be a digital only without blu ray but still expensive and I don't see them making any money out of this.