By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft to unify PC and Xbox One platforms, ending fixed console hardware

Soundwave said:

Microsoft already nixed the original XBox after 4 years and went to sell plenty of 360s. Nintendo nixed the GBA after 3 years for the DS and sold the most systems in their company history. This whole "you can't possibly change hardware after less than 5 years" is a lame bogeyman story that's been shoved down the throats of this industry. 

I'm just for a business model in which I'm treated like an ADULT. I make my own money, I'm not a 8-18 year old to whom a new console is a fucking emergency that I can't possibly afford. $400 for something I use for 3-4 years is nothing. That's a whopping $11/month for three years of use. That buys me what? Dinner for two at McDonalds once a month? Oh joy. 

Just like in the past a "superhero movie" like Deadpool would never be allowed to be made because superheroes are supposed to be "for the kids". Well look at that box office and tell me there isn't an adult audience. 

In actual fact, I'd be willing to bet a large majority even of comic book buyers today are *adults*. Same for freaking video games. It's about time we were offered a choice. 

If you don't like choice, then simply buy a competing product. Like every other damn electronic device on the face of the planet Earth. It's only for game consoles that we're sold this sales pitch that we as consumers are all stupid 13 year old little kids that can't handle/understand different hardware models. 

Like I'm sorry for the 10-year-old who can't afford to play Calladooty 2048484 now in 4K resolution, just like I'm sorry he can't go see Deadpool at the theater, but so what. Give the consumer the choice and let them decide I say. 

I think it will be more likely that those 14-18 year olds will be building their own pc and torrenting most of their games. I've been one of them, friends with older kids than I have have gone that route.
Yet you want MS to build a competitive box for you every few years and sell it to you at a loss. Why would they do that? They can't sell you a new console every few years that can compete with current pc tech for a measly $400. That buys MS what? Nothing indeed.
Even heavily subsidized by 2 year mobile phone contracts, the latest iPhone is still nearly twice as expensive as a console. Will be relevant for far less time, has a vastly bigger user base to sell to, yet somehow MS can provide cutting edge tech every couple years for $400?

Btw still waiting for adult cartoons to be accepted (again) in the west. The wind rises didn't even play in a cinema near me.
Plus deadpool is not for adults, The Dark knight was.



Around the Network
potato_hamster said:
Soundwave said:

Microsoft already nixed the original XBox after 4 years.

I'm just for a business model in which I'm treated like an ADULT. I make my own money, I'm not a 8-18 year old to whom a new console is a fucking emergency that I can't possibly afford. $400 for something I use for 3-4 years is nothing. 

Just like in the past a "superhero movie" like Deadpool would never be allowed to be made because superheroes are supposed to be "for the kids". Well look at that box office and tell me there isn't an adult audience. 

In actual fact, I'd be willing to bet a large majority even of comic book buyers today are *adults*. Same for freaking video games. It's about time we were offered a choice. 

If you don't like choice, then simply buy a competing product. Like every other damn electronic device on the face of the planet Earth. It's only for game consoles that we're sold this sales pitch that we as consumers are all stupid 13 year old little kids that can't handle/understand different hardware models. 

Like I'm sorry for the 10-year-old who can't afford to play Calladooty 2048484 now in 4K resolution, just like I'm sorry he can't go see Deadpool at the theater, but so what. Give the consumer the choice and let them decide I say. 

 

MS nixed the original Xbox after 4 years? That's probably because it came out a few years after the PS2 and MS wanted developers to put all their energy into games for their new console so they could take the fight to the PS3. I remember quite a few original xbox owners that were pissed that MS abandoned the console after 4 years.

And it's awesome man that you want to blow $300-$400 on gaming hardware every 4 years, but most console gamers don't want to. They'd rather buy 8-10 more games for their exisitng console they got a couple years ago. Most people want a console that they know is going to be supported fully for 8-10 years. That's not you? Cool.  There's already a device that supports your desire for upgrades and "adults with adult wallets", it's called a PC. Go buy whatever PC you want. There's nothign stopping you. You already have the option. You just want to create a new option for you, that directly impacts the options of others that don't think like you. You just don't care that your desire for a new option affects them. Go be an adult and buy a PC for however much money you want to spend, put Steam OS on it, and play those games on whatever settings you like. Well gee that seems exactly like what you're asking for! Don't like what Microsoft is currently offering, go buy a competing product, right?

P.S. It's hilarious that you think establishing a console standard, and giving consumers the option to buy a game console that will stay relevant and play current AAA games for 8-10 as "treating gamers like children".  I could just as easily say "I'm an ADULT. I want to buy a console and play the latest AAA games on it for the next 20 years! I'm tired of being treated like a CHILD and only getting 10 years out of it!". The two have nothing to do with one another.

How do you know what "most gamers" want? The fact of the matter of the four major hardware makers 3 of the 4 have enjoyed their best selling hardware after short previous cycles. Sega replaced the Master System with the Genesis after three years (this is their best selling system). Nintendo replaced the GBA with the DS after three years (this is their best selling system). Microsoft replaced the XBox with the XBox 360 after 4 years (this is their best selling system). 

Game consoles are sold like toys still. EVERY other electronic device offers choice but game consoles. That's why I bring up kids. It's not the end of the world if someone does something different, if you don't like it hey stick to a PS4. No one is forcing you to do anything. 

This isn't going to lead to fragementation in the way you think most likely anyway. What will happen is the same thing that happens with PCs ... people will lower end hardware can still play the games they just have to accept lower effects and resolution and what not. 

And that's fine. I'm sorry if little 10-year-old Johnny has to play COD 029394 in "only" 900p instead of 2K resolution or something or "broke college age Johnny" can only afford the lower spec version. So what? 

Honestly these segments don't contribute that much to the business. Partially because they are freaking *broke*. The adults with real money are the ones that likely drive this business today. It's high time this audience had a hardware offering more suited to us. 

I don't want to build a PC. I keep my PC in my basement, it's not something I'm going to hook up in my home electronics freaking center. My fiance would take one look at that and say "hell no, get that out of the living room". 



Soundwave said:
potato_hamster said:

You might be cool with buying a new phone every year, but that doesn't mean that I should be content if I want to hold on to my perfectly good phone for more than 3 years and get pissed off when none of the newest games work well on my 3 year old phone. I have every right to be pissed that developers refuse to support older devices. Do you know how many of the newest games would run perfectly fine on my 3 year old phone if no new versions of my phone came out in the last 3 years? All of them. Yet, very few do. That's mostly why my old iPhone sits in a drawer. New software started running terribly on it if at all. That sucked.

It's not LESS choice, it's lessening the practical useful life, and  the value of our existing consoles, and also future consoles. How many people bought a X1 expecting to never have an issue with game compatibility? All of them. How many people bought an X1 expecting the lastest and greatest games to run on it for the next 8-10 years. All of them. How many of them bought an X1 knowing that in 3-4 years time another better X1 might be introduced that more than likely will give others a competitive advantage in multiplayer? None of them. It changes the game. It makes xboxes less valuable to prospective buyers.

All it takes is one developer to raise the minimum specs of their game so that the minimum is the X1.5, and you can pretty much forget all of the new  AAA games from that point onwards on your X1. That might be 5 years from now. That might be 2. You will literally have no idea when you buy your X1. Nor will you have any idea how long your X1.5 will be supported when you buy that. But my PS4? That's going to be playing the newest AAA games until about 1.5-2 years after the PS5 comes out. That kind of certainty is going to draw people from xbox to playstation. I guarantee it.

But I mean, if you don't mind spending $400-$500 in upgrades every 3-4 years, then you're actually willing to spend more on consoles than most PC gamers I know spend on their PCs, and they spend $0 a year to play online.

Microsoft already nixed the original XBox after 4 years and went to sell plenty of 360s. Nintendo nixed the GBA after 3 years for the DS and sold the most systems in their company history. This whole "you can't possibly change hardware after less than 5 years" is a lame bogeyman story that's been shoved down the throats of this industry. 

I'm just for a business model in which I'm treated like an ADULT. I make my own money, I'm not a 8-18 year old to whom a new console is a fucking emergency that I can't possibly afford. $400 for something I use for 3-4 years is nothing. That's a whopping $11/month for three years of use. That buys me what? Dinner for two at McDonalds once a month? Oh joy. 

Just like in the past a "superhero movie" like Deadpool would never be allowed to be made because superheroes are supposed to be "for the kids". Well look at that box office and tell me there isn't an adult audience. 

In actual fact, I'd be willing to bet a large majority even of comic book buyers today are *adults*. Same for freaking video games. It's about time we were offered a choice. 

If you don't like choice, then simply buy a competing product. Like every other damn electronic device on the face of the planet Earth. It's only for game consoles that we're sold this sales pitch that we as consumers are all stupid 13 year old little kids that can't handle/understand different hardware models. 

Like I'm sorry for the 10-year-old who can't afford to play Calladooty 2048484 now in 4K resolution, just like I'm sorry he can't go see Deadpool at the theater, but so what. Give the consumer the choice and let them decide I say. 

People would not be happy because they would need to pay  500US$ Every 2 years for a Console, this is  A lot of Money, and spend this for the company stop of supporting the Device, because the new one launched, just like Microsoft, did with windows 7, and 8, look at other Nation's Wallet 500US$ Is = 2000 Brazilian's R$ The minimum wage is 800R$, 27,5% Of yearly Tax = 620R$, One new console cost 3.5 months of a Brazilian's minimum Wage, People that get 6000-8000 US$ per year are crying because of a 600US$ Machine, the money you can spend on entarteinment, is a Small %, that the money you get every month, less than 10%.



potato_hamster said:
Soundwave said:

Microsoft already nixed the original XBox after 4 years.

MS nixed the original Xbox after 4 years? That's probably because it came out a few years after the PS2 and MS wanted developers to put all their energy into games for their new console so they could take the fight to the PS3. I remember quite a few original xbox owners that were pissed that MS abandoned the console after 4 years.

No actually the XBox was a huge money pit as it was build from off the shelf parts and MS couldn't renegotiate a better deal to make profit on it. So sticking off the shelf parts in a new box every 3 years is never going to make them money. MS has already learned that lesson, a 4 billion dollar lesson.

The toughest part was that the machine wasn’t designed to take advantage of declining prices or volume discounts on component manufacturing, the way a mass-market electronics product would ordinarily be designed. That was driven by necessity, since the machine went from idea to product in about half the time it usually took to design such a complicated device. There wasn’t enough time to design unique chips and hardware that could be made more cheaply over time. Microsoft had to take a lot of costly off-the-shelf parts, including an expensive hard disk drive. When the machine started selling for $299, the cost for making each machine was around $425.
http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/15/the-making-of-the-xbox-part-2/

A new machine every 3 years is not going to be cheap.



Swordmasterman said:
Soundwave said:

Microsoft already nixed the original XBox after 4 years and went to sell plenty of 360s. Nintendo nixed the GBA after 3 years for the DS and sold the most systems in their company history. This whole "you can't possibly change hardware after less than 5 years" is a lame bogeyman story that's been shoved down the throats of this industry. 

I'm just for a business model in which I'm treated like an ADULT. I make my own money, I'm not a 8-18 year old to whom a new console is a fucking emergency that I can't possibly afford. $400 for something I use for 3-4 years is nothing. That's a whopping $11/month for three years of use. That buys me what? Dinner for two at McDonalds once a month? Oh joy. 

Just like in the past a "superhero movie" like Deadpool would never be allowed to be made because superheroes are supposed to be "for the kids". Well look at that box office and tell me there isn't an adult audience. 

In actual fact, I'd be willing to bet a large majority even of comic book buyers today are *adults*. Same for freaking video games. It's about time we were offered a choice. 

If you don't like choice, then simply buy a competing product. Like every other damn electronic device on the face of the planet Earth. It's only for game consoles that we're sold this sales pitch that we as consumers are all stupid 13 year old little kids that can't handle/understand different hardware models. 

Like I'm sorry for the 10-year-old who can't afford to play Calladooty 2048484 now in 4K resolution, just like I'm sorry he can't go see Deadpool at the theater, but so what. Give the consumer the choice and let them decide I say. 

People would not be happy because they would need to pay  500US$ Every 2 years for a Console, this is  A lot of Money, and spend this for the company stop of supporting the Device, because the new one launched, just like Microsoft, did with windows 7, and 8, look at other Nation's Wallet 500US$ Is = 2000 Brazilian's R$ The minimum wage is 800R$, 27,5% Of yearly Tax = 620R$, One new console cost 3.5 months of a Brazilian's minimum Wage, People that get 6000-8000 US$ per year are crying because of a 600US$ Machine, the money you can spend on entarteinment, is a Small %, that the money you get every month, less than 10%.

I'm sorry that people in Brazil have a low minimum income, but that's not my problem. Should Apple not release an iPad Pro because certain people can't afford it? No thanks, I'd rather have the choice. 

You don't "need" to buy anything either, my PC has a Nvidia 570 GPU from like 4-5 years ago and it still can run a lot of new games and thousands of existing games. I'm not going to whine and cry though if it can't run every single game or if it doesn't run every game at high settings. 



Around the Network
Swordmasterman said:
TheMessiah said:

I thought my post ws pretty self explanatory. Noone is forced to do anything. Are you forced to get galaxy s7 when galaxy s6 is plenty fine nd runs newer versions of android?

If you dont want to upgrade from xbox 2013 then you dont have to. And cn still play all the latest games till 2021 if you wish. For those console gamers who want awesome graphics more frequently then they can trade in thei old version for a new one, or sell the old one. The same as every other technology market in existence.

Having interchangeble hardware is confusing for mums at christmas. But mums understand iphones, galaxys etc. The xbox will be no different to other markets. I know plenty of gamers who chose PS4 this gen not for any exclusives but just because it had slightly more power for multiplats they play. So power is definately a thing in the console world. They woud trade every 3 years for the latest console visuals. And get to kep their library for years and years unlike the existing model.

Again no everyon has to upgrade. But those who want cutting edge visuals on console more frequently than 6-8 years apart can and will in big numbers I believe.

 

Cellphone is a Market with More consumers than Humans on the Earth, we have Billions of Smart Phone working out there, we have Less than 500 Millions of Consoles working out there, Consoles are More Expensive, and Changing the Console, so OFten, is like purchasing a new Sofa, and a New TV, every year, there are kind of Goods, that need to last Longer, and consoles are the ones, do you sell a new Table for the same Person every year ?, a new Bathroom ?.

Theres a reason I said consoles fit better to 3 year upgrades not yearly. Just because consoles have operated as they have, doesn't mean more choice to consumers is a bad thing.



SvennoJ said:
potato_hamster said:

MS nixed the original Xbox after 4 years? That's probably because it came out a few years after the PS2 and MS wanted developers to put all their energy into games for their new console so they could take the fight to the PS3. I remember quite a few original xbox owners that were pissed that MS abandoned the console after 4 years.

No actually the XBox was a huge money pit as it was build from off the shelf parts and MS couldn't renegotiate a better deal to make profit on it. So sticking off the shelf parts in a new box every 3 years is never going to make them money. MS has already learned that lesson, a 4 billion dollar lesson.

The toughest part was that the machine wasn’t designed to take advantage of declining prices or volume discounts on component manufacturing, the way a mass-market electronics product would ordinarily be designed. That was driven by necessity, since the machine went from idea to product in about half the time it usually took to design such a complicated device. There wasn’t enough time to design unique chips and hardware that could be made more cheaply over time. Microsoft had to take a lot of costly off-the-shelf parts, including an expensive hard disk drive. When the machine started selling for $299, the cost for making each machine was around $425.
http://venturebeat.com/2011/11/15/the-making-of-the-xbox-part-2/

A new machine every 3 years is not going to be cheap.

 While I agree, theres no reason why the new version can't sell for a new console price and version 1 get a price drop of $100. I'm sure MS wont have even talked about this without a lot research. I do however realise we wont know for certain the outright plan until Phil Spencer details the plan at a later date. He said he will.



Soundwave said:
potato_hamster said:

MS nixed the original Xbox after 4 years? That's probably because it came out a few years after the PS2 and MS wanted developers to put all their energy into games for their new console so they could take the fight to the PS3. I remember quite a few original xbox owners that were pissed that MS abandoned the console after 4 years.

And it's awesome man that you want to blow $300-$400 on gaming hardware every 4 years, but most console gamers don't want to. They'd rather buy 8-10 more games for their exisitng console they got a couple years ago. Most people want a console that they know is going to be supported fully for 8-10 years. That's not you? Cool.  There's already a device that supports your desire for upgrades and "adults with adult wallets", it's called a PC. Go buy whatever PC you want. There's nothign stopping you. You already have the option. You just want to create a new option for you, that directly impacts the options of others that don't think like you. You just don't care that your desire for a new option affects them. Go be an adult and buy a PC for however much money you want to spend, put Steam OS on it, and play those games on whatever settings you like. Well gee that seems exactly like what you're asking for! Don't like what Microsoft is currently offering, go buy a competing product, right?

P.S. It's hilarious that you think establishing a console standard, and giving consumers the option to buy a game console that will stay relevant and play current AAA games for 8-10 as "treating gamers like children".  I could just as easily say "I'm an ADULT. I want to buy a console and play the latest AAA games on it for the next 20 years! I'm tired of being treated like a CHILD and only getting 10 years out of it!". The two have nothing to do with one another.

How do you know what "most gamers" want? The fact of the matter of the four major hardware makers 3 of the 4 have enjoyed their best selling hardware after short previous cycles. Sega replaced the Master System with the Genesis after three years (this is their best selling system). Nintendo replaced the GBA with the DS after three years (this is their best selling system). Microsoft replaced the XBox with the XBox 360 after 4 years (this is their best selling system). 

Game consoles are sold like toys still. EVERY other electronic device offers choice but game consoles. That's why I bring up kids. It's not the end of the world if someone does something different, if you don't like it hey stick to a PS4. No one is forcing you to do anything. 

This isn't going to lead to fragementation in the way you think most likely anyway. What will happen is the same thing that happens with PCs ... people will lower end hardware can still play the games they just have to accept lower effects and resolution and what not. 

And that's fine. I'm sorry if little 10-year-old Johnny has to play COD 029394 in "only" 900p instead of 2K resolution or something or "broke college age Johnny" can only afford the lower spec version. So what? 

Honestly these segments don't contribute that much to the business. Partially because they are freaking *broke*. The adults with real money are the ones that likely drive this business today. It's high time this audience had a hardware offering more suited to us. 

I don't want to build a PC. I keep my PC in my basement, it's not something I'm going to hook up in my home electronics freaking center. My fiance would take one look at that and say "hell no, get that out of the living room". 

Don't matter how much the last console lasted, Genesis, had 5 Years, Nintendo DS 6 Years, Xbox 360, 9 Years.

2 DS,  was nearly nintendo's console that last the most, 6 Years is a lot, Xbox 360, is the longest selling Microsoft's Console,and Genesis, is the Longest Selling console from Sega, all of those Consoles Had a Longe Life-cicle, the Genesis, had a Normal Life-cicle 4-6 Years.



Soundwave said:
Swordmasterman said:

People would not be happy because they would need to pay  500US$ Every 2 years for a Console, this is  A lot of Money, and spend this for the company stop of supporting the Device, because the new one launched, just like Microsoft, did with windows 7, and 8, look at other Nation's Wallet 500US$ Is = 2000 Brazilian's R$ The minimum wage is 800R$, 27,5% Of yearly Tax = 620R$, One new console cost 3.5 months of a Brazilian's minimum Wage, People that get 6000-8000 US$ per year are crying because of a 600US$ Machine, the money you can spend on entarteinment, is a Small %, that the money you get every month, less than 10%.

I'm sorry that people in Brazil have a low minimum income, but that's not my problem. Should Apple not release an iPad Pro because certain people can't afford it? No thanks, I'd rather have the choice. 

You don't "need" to buy anything either, my PC has a Nvidia 570 GPU from like 4-5 years ago and it still can run a lot of new games and thousands of existing games. I'm not going to whine and cry though if it can't run every single game or if it doesn't run every game at high settings. 

Take Someone's Wage, Divide by the Country's Tax, and divide it by 10, this is the Person's Money that can be spend on Entarteinment, no one spend more than This, because of That, no one purchase Hardware every 2 years.

Lets  say a person is Called "Shadow", Shadow have a Wage of 5000US$, Shadow, live on a Country that the Tax is 50%, so Shadow, only have 2500US$ per Month, Shadow, can spend 250US$ Per month with Entarteinment, Shadow, already pay Netflix's Tax, go to see Movies on the Shopping, so Shadow only have 150US$ Left per month to spend in Gaming, Shadow will chose a Console that will last  A Lot of years, because of that, Shadow, can spend the 150US$ Budget, with Games, instead of Hardware.



I have a Nvidia GTX 570, which is a GPU from 2010, so almost SIX years ago.

This wasn't even the top of the line GPU of the day it was a mid-high range GPU.

Today almost six years later I can play most any new game on it. The Witcher III runs fine on it. I can play Street Fighter V on it if I wanted to. I can play thousands of games on it. 

This idea that you're going to be forced at gunpoint to upgrade every 2-3 years is bullshit. You don't even have to do that on PC.

You just won't get the highest end effects but *so what*. I'm sorry but 10-year-old little Johnny who makes $200 a year cutting backyard lawns has a lower quality experience in his game than I do as a grown man with a job, house, car, etc.

The industry has evolved beyond being in the toy aisle next to Barbie. Adults are the majority driver of this business now. If I have choice with my smartphone, PC, laptop, tablet, TV, camera, etc. I buy I should with my console. And if you don't like it fine, no one is forcing you to buy an Xbox either.