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Forums - General Discussion - Could the Human Race really be the Aliens on this planet??

John2290 said:
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Considering we are almost genetically identical to chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorilla, it's pretty obvious that we evolved from the same thing they did, and completely out of the question that some alien that just happens to be closely related to life on Earth discovered earth and colonized it.



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Dulfite said:
JWeinCom said:

If you think evolution is a random process, then you don't understand it.  Read up on it, and maybe you'll have a better understanding of how likely or unlikely it is.

But what caused it? Why did it start? If it's there, what made it be there? What determined it? Nothing determined it? If nothing determined it, then nothing should exist at all. If something determined it to be there, then things make sense. But then what can that something possibly be? Nature? But that's just a made up term to pretty much describe chaos or the lack of something controlling. Nature doesn't exist. The only way nature could exist is if the rules that it creates (gravity, energy speed up/slow down, matter vs. anti matter, etc.) have to have been determined by something with intelligence. If there is no something with intelligence, then how is their rules to nature? You can't say evolution is logical so of course it's natural, because in what way is it logical if there is no supreme thing to hold it up to? What even determines logic?

Whatever people believe started evolution, what start that? And I've heard/read so many differnet theories, including the one on the universe expanding/contracting infinetely, but I say again to that and to all other theories as to why things are the way they are, what caused them in the first place if there isn't God? Seriously, I want a serious response to this. Every other time people just blow past that question because they either don't know or they don't want to answer.

Whatever people believe started evolution, what start that? And I've heard/read so many differnet theories, including the one on the universe expanding/contracting infinetely, but I say again to that and to all other theories as to why things are the way they are, what caused them in the first place if there isn't God? Seriously, I want a serious response to this. Every other time people just blow past that question because they either don't know or they don't want to answer.

I'm just going to focus in on this part.  

You're not talking about evolution.  Evolution started when life originated.  Anything before that falls into the category of either abiogenesis or cosmology. 

Once life originates in whatever way it does, then we have a pretty good idea of how it grows and changes over time.  Evolution is logical because we know that genes exist and we know how they work.  Evolution is gene changes in a population over a certain period of time.  And we can see this happening in humans over the course of human history, in species we've domesticated, and in labarotories with fruit flies and bacteria.  Evolution is the cornerstone of biology, and biology has proven itself over and over in practical application.  So, we know how evolution happens. 

As  for how life and the universe started, the answer is we don't know.  And what is wrong with that answer exactly? You're demanding a serious answer to how the universe was created from a random guy on a message board.  And the answer is I don't know.  It's honest, and it's accurate.  There are many theories as to how this is possible, and they're a bit too complex to sum up here.  I would recommend watching Lawrence Krauss' presentation, A Universe From Nothing, or reading Stephen Hawking's "The Grand Design" if you're truly interested.

But let's say that nobody had any clue.  Then the answer is just I don't know.  We don't get to insert an intelligence into the equation, because that just pushes the problem back one level, and we have to figure out where that intelligence came from.  And of course, if you want to propose god as a theory to be taken seriously, then you need some actual evidence.  You can believe whatever makes sense to you, but unless you have evidence don't try to convince others. Or at least don't try to convince me.

And, again, that has nothing to do with evolution.  Just because we don't know how life starts doesn't mean we don't know what happens once it's here.



Vyse_Blue_Rogue said:
JWeinCom said:

Right.  The process isn't random and the mutations are.

It doesn't seem unlikely at all, at least to me.  It's just a problem of scales.  Humans live about 100 years at best.  Our scale of time is years.  All of recorded history is a sliver of time on earth that is beyond insignificant. 

When you can thing of time on a grander scale, it's not really hard to believe that things could change that much.  Assuming you accept that genes change over time, and really try to imagine billions of years, it doesn't only seem likely but inevitable.

I just can't see how, under any period of time, and any circumstances, that bacteria could eventuallt transform into a human

Why not? We transformed the Gray Wolf into a bunch of very different breeds ranging from a teacup-sized Chihuahua to the massive Great Dane in about 100,000 years. With over 3,000,000,000 years and a massive assortment of environments to adapt to, is it really that hard to believe?



Vyse_Blue_Rogue said:
JWeinCom said:

Right.  The process isn't random and the mutations are.

It doesn't seem unlikely at all, at least to me.  It's just a problem of scales.  Humans live about 100 years at best.  Our scale of time is years.  All of recorded history is a sliver of time on earth that is beyond insignificant. 

When you can thing of time on a grander scale, it's not really hard to believe that things could change that much.  Assuming you accept that genes change over time, and really try to imagine billions of years, it doesn't only seem likely but inevitable.

I just can't see how, under any period of time, and any circumstances, that bacteria could eventuallt transform into a human

Can you imagine that in 1 million years, a one celled bacteria could become a two celled organism?

Can you imagine 1 million years later that two celled organism becomes a 4 celled organism?

Can you imagine in another million years that four celled organism can become an 8 celled organism?

Can you imagine in another million years that 8 celled orgamism becomes a 16 celled organism, and that some of the cells begin to perform different tasks?

Can you imagine that in another million years, we have a 32 celled organism with several different specialized cells?

Obviously, this is just a hypothetical, but that's 5 million years. Is it that hard to imagine going from 1 to 32 cells in that time?  Five million years is less than .1% of the time life has existed, as far as we know.  If you can believe that much change can happen in such a relatively small amount of time, is it hard for you to believe that in more than 1000 times that amount of time we can get to organisms like mammals?



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Doubt it. What is so hard to believe about evolution? If you just look at other species, you can literally track where we converged. Look at homologous structures, fossil records, and DN fucking A. I don't even understand why anyone would deny it for religious purposes either. Of course God, an omnipotent being, would have a good understanding of climate change and would create beings capable of adapting to it.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

Earth is 4.54 BILLION years old. A lot can happen in that time frame. Look how far we've come in the last 10,000 years. Hell, the dinosaurs only lived 65 million years ago.



Vyse_Blue_Rogue said:
JWeinCom said:

Right.  The process isn't random and the mutations are.

It doesn't seem unlikely at all, at least to me.  It's just a problem of scales.  Humans live about 100 years at best.  Our scale of time is years.  All of recorded history is a sliver of time on earth that is beyond insignificant. 

When you can thing of time on a grander scale, it's not really hard to believe that things could change that much.  Assuming you accept that genes change over time, and really try to imagine billions of years, it doesn't only seem likely but inevitable.

I just can't see how, under any period of time, and any circumstances, that bacteria could eventuallt transform into a human

Part of the problem with humans is we simply cannot fathom time on the scales we're talking about here.  1000 years is an absurd amt of time to us, but this is millions and millions of years we're talking about here.  Sort of like the Universe and the number scale w/ regards to the amount of galaxies/planets etc... I mean, can you imagine a billion trillion?  I can't...we have no frame of reference.



Jumpin said:
Considering we are almost genetically identical to chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorilla, it's pretty obvious that we evolved from the same thing they did, and completely out of the question that some alien that just happens to be closely related to life on Earth discovered earth and colonized it.

I've heard the theories before. Some seem to be that something from outside of earth came and created us from mixing our DNA will terrestrial beings which were natively on this planet to begin with. Don't know how much traction it has in the scientific community, but its far more scientific than the bible. The sumerian text theory that is.



interesting theory.

although my problem with it is there are too many creatures with similar DNA structure to our own. your theory would have to be that a LOT of mammal lifeforms on this planet weren't natural to it