JustBeingReal said:
Soundwave said:
JustBeingReal said:
Soundwave said:
I think the portable NX should be the main device. Because it kinda has to be. It's time for the portable to stop being the "little brother" business wise it has the vast majority of the userbase, so if Nintendo is going to make headway with developer support the portable needs to be the centerpiece of the unified platform equation. The NX console(s) should just be more of a secondary thing to be honest, and I know some people are going be angry at that, but I think the console should take a new position of a specialty item and it should be more flexible as a result with different console configs if need be (Euro/US gamers want a different type of console these days, that's just the reality of the situation).
Make a powerful but sensibly designed portable, basically the PS4 of portables. That's the "sun" of your universe. Then you can have different console models "orbit" around that central pillar, and the graphics can optionally scale up and the console user can pick based on their specific tastes what they want.
Console wise Nintendo's in tough anyway, PS4 and XBox One likely will not be beaten for console userbase this gen no matter what Nintendo does. Too far of a head start now. I'd make the console an evolving line of products so they don't get badly undercut when the PS5/XB2 eventually show up.
NX needs to radically alter Nintendo's hardware setup though IMO and embrace new ideas. If it's just the same ol', same ol', (which I understand is what some Nintendo fans want every 5 years forever and ever and ever), it's not going to do well. Nintendo needs to question every aspect of their hardware design and the modern function of said designs, what worked in 1985 and 1995 and even 2005 doesn't neccessarily mean it works now and it sure as hell is not working in 2016.
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The OS is what should be the main part of the system, TBH the hardware is just the vessel in this equation. The notion that the handheld will hold back the home console is a false one, tbh and as I've said to you in our past discussions or debates developers can easily scale their games up and down to run on whatever hardware, provided it's within a certain ballpark.
The hypothetical NX console can just run a more demanding version of the same game, at a higher resolution, with better textures, geometry, maybe adjustments to shaders, etc.
As far as potential sales goes there are still a lot of gamers that are yet to buy a console. So far maybe a quarter of the potential console owners have bought one, a massive area of the market still exists for the taking and of course there are the handheld users, but it's possible that a Nintendo home console could have a sizeable chunk of those console buyers. Maybe NX console could even account for more than the 3DS level of sales this generation.
It all depends on what kinds of games Nintendo are going to make for NX, if they're going to have games that target the global 3rd party audience, along with their core established IP then the ability to also move 3rd party software could be there this gen and the 3rd party audience that are yet to go 8th gen could decide to buy NX console, instead of buying PS4 or XBox One.
Those games that haven't bought into the 8th gen are still waiting for a reason or reasons to do so, maybe they'll buy a PS4 because it has more big AAA exclusives, along with all of the 3rd party software and the smaller indie games compared to XBox One.
It's possible that with only one platform to make games for Nintendo will be able to match software line-ups with their competition pretty quickly, given the volume of games that 3DS and Wii U have had combined that seems pretty likely. This unified approach development would certainly free up resources to allow Nintendo the freedom to make more new IPs, instead of having to make multiple versions of a game for each system in a unique way.
In this equation the software becomes the focus, be it the games and the OS, hardware just allows for a flexible environment to evolve into. Focusing on the hardware isn't really needed to make this happen, because the hardware is already at a point where games can scale, you only need to look at how PC games can just add features that can run with better hardware. Provided Nintendo makes the experience pretty seamless between the two there's really no chance of this having any problems. If developers can make a game run across thousands of different hardware configurations, with different architectures and a single OS or even two, then they can easily make their games work on 2 hardware configurations and a single OS optimized for those 2 devices.
The easiest example to understand IMO is the PC ecosystem, only much less complicated and developers choose the graphical settings for the 2 platforms in it. That's what NX sounds like to me. That works and because NX is much less complicated, while also packing one architecture across both systems, it makes things even simpler.
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Still when building a ball park, a ball park is a finite space, lol, so to be "within the ball park" means the portable just can't be designed like an after thought.
The portable is what the 3rd parties really want anyway .... they know that Nintendo portables sell good numbers consistently, Nintendo consoles are likely going to be a tougher sell to developers after Wii U. So you need to hook them with the portable, and to hook them with the portable it needs to be able to actually run modern games to a large degree IMO.
I think honestly to keep scalability easier, the main difference between the console and portable should be image quality and resolution, but I would give it enough juice to more or less run the same games otherwise. Once you get into things like compromising poly models and such a developer has to do some much work that they are effectively making two different versions, and you don't want it to be that large gulf of a gap.
The more powerful the portable can be the easier everything works and the more developer support IMO Nintendo will be able to attract quickly.
That's why I would advocate strongly for a powerful but sensible (read: affordable) chip similar to the Apple A9X or Tegra X1. Hopefully AMD is up to snuff and can provide something similar, and I think they can (they just don't generally because their traditional vendors don't need that and PowerVR/Snapdragon dominate the mobile phone/tablet space). Something that can scale nicely 1:3 or 1:4 to modern consoles.
The rest of it I agree with, but question everything. Once you "free" yourself of the traditional hardware setup, then many other things can be put into question too. Like why only 2 hardware configs? Why only one console config? If the NX ecosystem is the main pillar, then you are free to have many, I mean hell Nintendo already makes like 4 or 5 concurrent different versions of the 3DS system this gen alone. Lets push some of these concepts further, once Nintendo breaks the traditional hardware setup with NX if it unified, then embrace that fully.
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A ballpark can be a pretty big space TBH, when we're talking about resolutions scaling up or down. I mean 1920X1080=2,073,600 pixels (The Console), vs 640X480=307,200 (The Handheld), the handheld can be 6.75X weaker than the console, so we go from 2.683TFlops on the handheld, down to 397GFlops being needed on the handheld, you run the games basically the same as the console, just at a lower resolution.
Knock off AA or some textures and you're easily there, it's just if Nintendo wants to reduce costs further then they have that option.
The whole reduction of geometry thing is a none issue, it's no different than tweaking PC settings, essentially an automatic thing for modern game engines, just a flick of a switch when you build those features into your tech. You do the work at the beginning and iterate on them over time, but it's not a hugely time consuming thing.
Optimization is not something that you're going to get rid of, but it will be dead easy to handle for developers or even just on Nintendo's end, like how AMD releases drivers for different GPUs when a new game releases. Nintendo would only have to worry about their 2 devices or however many NX includes into it's ecosystem.
Polaris should be within the same pricepoint as a GTX 950, so around $150 at retail, for Nintendo considerably cheaper and for the handheld varient even cheaper than that, but incredibly power efficient and not hot for a small case. AMD's new stuff will definitely be cheap, especially in the handheld portion, because Nintendo will order big quantities of it for the handheld space, the console may also be ordered in big quantities if the system takes off.
That would reduce costs. AMD are the only ones that really do both handheld or big performance console, so they're a proven quantity and Nintendo has a great relationship with them. It's essentially been confirmed that AMD are the ones. The math proves they can do this, not sure why you'd have any doubts.
Anyway we've taken the thread off topic really. Prices for NX games was the topic, I think it makes sense for those costs to essentially work how they've always done, just that all games, be it previously handheld or console exclusive run on both devices or whatever devices exist in the NX family. Costs just depend on the kind of game and publisher's choices in that area.
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